Attention CFI's and CFI Students

[bob loblaw]

Are you fretting over having to make lesson plans for your checkride. Do you sit up at night knowing you can never write up all the lesson plans and you may look stupid during your CFI checkride. Well buy this book by Edwin Quinnlan and put your worries to rest. This guy did every lesson plan for anything you can teach in a plane and it's all in one book.

[JEP]

Originally Posted by bob loblaw

Are you fretting over having to make lesson plans for your checkride. Do you sit up at night knowing you can never write up all the lesson plans and you may look stupid during your CFI checkride. Well buy this book by Edwin Quinnlan and put your worries to rest. This guy did every lesson plan for anything you can teach in a plane and it's all in one book.

And when the FSDO see's all the work you put into the lesson , you will be up a creek. Yes you could buy the book, but you slip one iota and you will get drilled. By coming up with your own lesson plans, or at least putting a different spin on them, you are forcing yourself to go through ALL of the material.

[MidlifeFlyer]

Truthfully, I only wrote 3 lesson plans myself for my CFI ride, mostly so that I knew how to write one in the FAA's preferred format. The examiner I dealt with was far more interested in whether I was able to use them than whether I was, with my limited experience, able to re-create something that Jepp, King, Sportys, Gleim and the other companies that write syllabi and lesson plans for the training industry, with the money and expertise available to them, took years to perfect.

If you have an examiner with that attitude, any lesson plans would work. If you have one who is expecting "your" work, the downside to Quinnlan's is, good as they really are, I don't think they are in FAA format.

[FlyBoyJae]

i am starting my CFI ground school on 11/5/05. the instructor told me to read the FAR / AIM and understand them at CFI level.

do I have to memorize all these FAR's for the checkride?...just wondering....(what happened to the smoking icon??)

[JEP]

Originally Posted by FlyBoyJae

i am starting my CFI ground school on 11/5/05. the instructor told me to read the FAR / AIM and understand them at CFI level.

do I have to memorize all these FAR's for the checkride?...just wondering....(what happened to the smoking icon??)

[Philip]

I wrote all my plans, then for my II I thought I'd try to buy some and they were absolute rubbish...

Are those any good?

[bob loblaw]

Quinlan's lesson plans are in FAA format. I used them on my CFI initial with a FSDO Inspector, who was being surpervised by the FSDO's head Inspector. The only thing the Inspector said was are the times spent on each task an exact or can they be changed. I said the time you spend on each task of the lesson plan depends on the student. One student may need more time on a particular area than another student. The Inspector allowed the lesson plans with no objection.

[bob loblaw]

Originally Posted by Philip

I wrote all my plans, then for my II I thought I'd try to buy some and they were absolute rubbish...

Are those any good?

These lesson plans are the best I have seen. I did spend the money for the book and I am happy for having them, but I haven't used a single lesson plan since using them for the CFI oral.

[bob loblaw]

Originally Posted by JEP

And when the FSDO see's all the work you put into the lesson , you will be up a creek. Yes you could buy the book, but you slip one iota and you will get drilled. By coming up with your own lesson plans, or at least putting a different spin on them, you are forcing yourself to go through ALL of the material.

I disagree! as I said, I used these lesson plans while doing my CFI initial with an Inspector from the FSDO who was being surpervised by the head Inspector. My oral lasted 3 hours and wasn't perfect, yet I passed the checkride on the first try. The main thing the Inspector was looking for was the use of the appropriate lesson plan, the fact that the times on the lesson plans are estimates that are changeable.

Of course if you go into the checkride with Quinlan's lesson plans and try to pass them off as your own, you will be fried. I told the inspector that Quinlan, having a better education than myself, has created an excellent lesson plan book that I chose to use for my students.

[mtsu_av8er]

Originally Posted by JEP

And when the FSDO see's all the work you put into the lesson , you will be up a creek.

Jep, I think Bob knows what he's talking about here! He's worked at more flight schools than most of us ever will!

Got fi . . .

Wait, that's right!

[bob loblaw]

Originally Posted by mtsu_av8er

Jep, I think Bob knows what he's talking about here! He's worked at more flight schools than most of us ever will!

Got fi . . .

Wait, that's right!

You are correct LLyod, I do know what I am talking about. However, it seems that you don't know what you are talking about. I have worked for only two flight schools thus far. I left one school were I worked for 1 and 1/2 years to work for ATP. At this time I am presently waiting on the word to see if I got a local instructing job. I have turned two job offers down in the last two months because I wouldn't have been happy at either school.

[bob loblaw]

Originally Posted by mtsu_av8er

Jep, I think Bob knows what he's talking about here! He's worked at more flight schools than most of us ever will!

Got fi . . .

Wait, that's right!

Got fi . . .

Do you want me to finish what you wanted to bait me with. I am proud of the fact that I stood up for myself. I am proud of the fact that I got fired for having a backbone. I am proud of the fact that I did not lie to my students thus keeping my credibility intact. I am thankful for a turn coordinator that was broken in a ATP plane which proved my point to the students regarding spins and spins hurting the gyros. Yeah, I got fired.

It takes a real man to admit on a public aviation messege board that he was fired from his position as a ATP flight instructor. But you know what, I can live with it.

[Philip]

Originally Posted by bob loblaw

These lesson plans are the best I have seen. I did spend the money for the book and I am happy for having them, but I haven't used a single lesson plan since using them for the CFI oral.

Hrmm.... lesson plans are a GOOD thing, I forget things!
but that's just me. I've never seen a CFI use one when teaching me, not even when doing my initial CFI, lol

[bob loblaw]

Originally Posted by Philip

Hrmm.... lesson plans are a GOOD thing, I forget things!
but that's just me. I've never seen a CFI use one when teaching me, not even when doing my initial CFI, lol

Not one of my instructors used lesson plans while teaching me either. Of course I don't hold anything against an instructor who choses to use lesson plans.

[MidlifeFlyer]

Originally Posted by FlyBoyJae

i am starting my CFI ground school on 11/5/05. the instructor told me to read the FAR / AIM and understand them at CFI level.

do I have to memorize all these FAR's for the checkride?...just wondering....

Usually no. For most of them, all they expect is that you know your way around the FAR so that you can find them quickly. The FAR and AIM are teaching tools. While there are always things you are expected to know cold, the real idea is to understand how to use the teaching tools at your disposal.

[jrh]

One of my coworkers swears by the Quinlan book and used it quite a lot when she was starting out as a CFI.

I looked it over and decided it wasn't for me. In my opinion, the lessons were obnoxiously detailed. There was so much text on a page, I'd get lost in the lists of concepts covered. There is no way I can remember all of those details in the plane and the book is a bit too hefty to comfortably carry with me in a C-152 during a lesson.

When I took my CFI checkride I used some pre-made plans my instructor printed off the internet and gave me. I told the examiner that I hadn't written them myself, but I'd studied them and was prepared to teach any of them. He had no problem with that. He asked me to pull out something I might use on a commercial lesson, so I pulled the sheet on chandelles. He just laughed and said, "Ok, so we're going to go do chandelles up up and away for an hour solid?" After I pulled out some other maneuvers and we talked about how to link them together in one flight, he was satisfied.

When I first started teaching I'd write notes out on a 5"x7" notepad and carry it with me in the plane in order to make sure I covered everything. I didn't follow the official FAA lesson plan format though--just thought through everything logically and wrote down the key points I thought were needed.

Now that I have more experience I just carry a 3"x5" spiral bound memo book and list the maneuvers I want to cover on that lesson, then do the actual teaching off the top of my head. The exception is for unusual flights like BFRs, aircraft checkouts, spin training, etc. I still write those out in detail in order to cover every little point since it's a "one time" sort of deal and I want to be especially thorough.

Back to my opinion of Quinlan's book...it's not bad, but I wouldn't order it sight unseen. Look it over in person and decide if you like it rather than buying it straight off the internet.

[MidlifeFlyer]

Originally Posted by Philip

I wrote all my plans, then for my II I thought I'd try to buy some and they were absolute rubbish...

Are those any good?

Actually, they are pretty good, although I admit I sent the book back after looking through it. I anticipated what Bob mentioned:

but I haven't used a single lesson plan since using them for the CFI oral.

I had a set that my CFI instructor used 20 years earlier for reference in case I had to create one I didn't anticipate. And, as I mentioned before, I found the task of creating a few valuable.

I still use a few "lesson plans", but, because my teaching is so part time, they are mostly outlines of reminders of things I need to cover than following any of the formalities that the FAA or commercial version show.

[Philip]

Originally Posted by bob loblaw

Not one of my instructors used lesson plans while teaching me either. Of course I don't hold anything against an instructor who choses to use lesson plans.

Well, I did come from 141 land where the TCO basically *IS* a lesson plan I suppose.

canned flight instruction, nothing brings out a quality lesson like making the poor guy teach the same lesson to 5 students in a week.

[Philip]

Originally Posted by jrh

Now that I have more experience I just carry a 3"x5" spiral bound memo book and list the maneuvers I want to cover on that lesson, then do the actual teaching off the top of my head.

That's a good idea, I might "borrow" that

[Philip]

Originally Posted by MidlifeFlyer

I still use a few "lesson plans", but, because my teaching is so part time, they are mostly outlines of reminders of things I need to cover than following any of the formalities that the FAA or commercial version show.

Not as part time as mine


My boy is doing a GFK to APA on monday, maybe I can hitch a ride. Plenty of time to talk

[Maximillian_Jenius]

Originally Posted by bob loblaw

Got fi . . .

Do you want me to finish what you wanted to bait me with. I am proud of the fact that I stood up for myself. I am proud of the fact that I got fired for having a backbone. I am proud of the fact that I did not lie to my students thus keeping my credibility intact. I am thankful for a turn coordinator that was broken in a ATP plane which proved my point to the students regarding spins and spins hurting the gyros. Yeah, I got fired.

It takes a real man to admit on a public aviation messege board that he was fired from his position as a ATP flight instructor. But you know what, I can live with it.

Not that I choosing side (love ya llyod yo you ma brah) cause I'm not.
But you brag about your integrity and your commitment to your students and honesty and respect and bob loblaw (read it fast).

But fact remains that you got fired from three count em three job. But for the sake of arguement we will say two and that you voluntarily left one.
Your even proud of the fact that you have recently turned down two CFI jobs.

As is so often said on this website aviation is all about networking. What kinda of image are you portraying of yourself. Both with your previous iterations and even now.
Sorry to say say but if I was an employer I wouldn't employ you. I'm not sure what your future goals and asperation are in aviation but I think that your limiting yourself and your future. You seem to be your own worst enemy.
Not trying to flame you or start a fight with you just voicing my opinion.
Besides...you couldn't hang with me...lol!

-Matthew

[bob loblaw]

Originally Posted by Maximillian_Jenius

Not that I choosing side (love ya llyod yo you ma brah) cause I'm not.
But you brag about your integrity and your commitment to your students and honesty and respect and bob loblaw (read it fast).

But fact remains that you got fired from three count em three job. But for the sake of arguement we will say two and that you voluntarily left one.
Your even proud of the fact that you have recently turned down two CFI jobs.

As is so often said on this website aviation is all about networking. What kinda of image are you portraying of yourself. Both with your previous iterations and even now.
Sorry to say say but if I was an employer I wouldn't employ you. I'm not sure what your future goals and asperation are in aviation but I think that your limiting yourself and your future. You seem to be your own worst enemy.
Not trying to flame you or start a fight with you just voicing my opinion.
Besides...you couldn't hang with me...lol!

-Matthew

Since you are not chosing sides I will cut you some slack in my response to you. But I would like for you to read it carefully so you can avoid any future mistakes.

I wrote in my response to Llyod that I had two aviation jobs, one which I worked for 1 1/2 years and left to go to work for ATP. I was fired by ATP for the reasons listed above. You write back after obviously not reading the post and respond to me with your opinion. This is where you learn a lesson that will suit you well in your future so read carefully.

Your opinion holds value only if it contains facts. Having and voicing an opinion that clearly shows you don't know the facts could make you look ignorant and uneducated. You said I was fired from three jobs and then you say for the sake of argument two jobs, one which I left voluntarily. This is not at all true, or what I wrote in my reply to Llyod. You also say that if you were an employer, you would not hire me. You must not be interested in hiring someone who has integrity, and is completely honest. As for turning down two CFI job offers, I am not the first person who upon learning all aspects of a job, decided the job wasn't for me. Learning this before you begin employment is important. Turning the job down keeps you from having to add one more employer to your job history. A unstable work history does not look good and is counter productive.

[hattrick]

dude ive turned down two job offers before wait make that three. but only because i had a better offer or job already. i could really care less about your career choices as it has no effect on me. just a question i started pondering though. would an unstable job history hurt more or less than a lack of job history. just the ponderings of my mind.

[Maximillian_Jenius]

Originally Posted by hattrick

dude ive turned down two job offers before wait make that three. but only because i had a better offer or job already. i could really care less about your career choices as it has no effect on me. just a question i started pondering though. would an unstable job history hurt more or less than a lack of job history. just the ponderings of my mind.

Well that is why I said what I said to "blah blah"? With everything that has been said on this site about networking and the aviation community at large being small and tight knit.
It is easy to make a bad impression on peoples minds like getting fired from two jobs then maybe boasting about it later on an aviation website.
People are going to start assuming things about you. That may or may not be right. But remember always that "perception is reality."
More especially if you have a history of being rather inflamtory and hot headed.

Everyone has a story but if I as an employer were to see that someone had a history of "job hopping" and or getting fired from multiple jobs they wouldn't favor too well in my book.
There is nothing wrong with turning down a job. But everytime he mentions it he comes off as sounding rather pious.
Coupled with the fact that my momma always taught me when your unemployed you take the first job that comes along till your back on your feet and can then choose to be picky. But I don't know the mans financial situation.

-Matthew

[bob loblaw]

Originally Posted by hattrick

dude ive turned down two job offers before wait make that three. but only because i had a better offer or job already. i could really care less about your career choices as it has no effect on me. just a question i started pondering though. would an unstable job history hurt more or less than a lack of job history. just the ponderings of my mind.

Being unemployed is better than job hopping. The main question employers want to know when you are unemployed is why, and how long. I got fired from ATP in July this year, from then til present time I have been voluntering with the CAP. This keeps me flying and shows my time went to good use.