partial panel NDB approach in an unfamiliar plane

KevinT · September 19th, 2005, 11:43

anyone else have problems with this? I was in an unfamiliar plane today. (c-172sp) vs a piper cadet my norm.

obviously the instruments and everything work the same, but the plane flies different being a high wing with 20 more HP. and some other little things like steering.

I did an ndb approach today with the DG and artificial horizon covered up. I had a hell of a time... it sucked.

any tips for help practicing things like this while in an unfamiliar plane? I realize once I get my cfi I should be able to hop in any plane and fly it, and my PPL is for single engine land... but it DOES make a difference... to me anyways.

BoilerPilot2007 · September 19th, 2005, 12:09

It sure could make a difference. However, I'm willing to bet that the biggest factors affecting your performance were not the airplane itself.

1) NDB approaches are tricky.
2) NDB approaches with a different scan than you're used to make it much more difficult.

Add in some winds, perhaps a long day, and a new airplane, voila, you've got a pretty ugly NDB approach.

Don't be discouraged. NDBs are tough approaches to fly. Keep practicing, and eventually one approach will be just like the next, regardless of the airplane you're in.

NDB approaches + instrument failures = evil CFI (you'll thank them later)

flyguy · September 19th, 2005, 15:38

[ QUOTE ]
anyone else have problems with this?

[/ QUOTE ]
Depends. Is there any wind at all? Is there a crosswind component at all? If so then yeah, very much so. Even full panel they can be a kick in the butt if there's some wind trying to blow you off course. Cover up the DG and I don't care how familiar you are with the plane, its gonna take some practice, and even then it probably won't ever be easy. But try not to get too frustrated, with practice you'll get it.

MidlifeFlyer · September 19th, 2005, 18:11

Given the same type of NDB equipment (fixed card, rotating, card, RMI, HSI) I'm having trouble imagining what could be different in =navigating= an NDB in different airplanes (whether full or partical panel)

The only thing that I can see being a factor in an unfamiliar make/model is the =flying= part. If you are constantly playing with pitch and power and trying to figure out what a standard rate turn is in that airplane, then you are way too busy with the flying to do much accurate navigating.

So the tip is to go fly the airplane, maybe even make an instrument configuration chart for it. For those who don't know what that is, shame on your CFII! It's a table of the aircraft power setting, configuration and airspeed for each of the primary instrument approach flight phases - Approach Level, Precision Descent, Nonprecision descent and MDA Level (some folks make the more complex than others).

KevinT · September 19th, 2005, 18:15

thanks for all the replies. it wasn't so much the NDB approach itself, it was just that I was terrible at it this time. wether it was the plane or just me I dunno. I did learn that in a cessna 172 sp you can adjust the seat height... didn't realize that until we were taxing back after flying. I guess the person that had the plane last was real short lol.

thanks again!

flyguy · September 19th, 2005, 22:56

You can adjust the seat height in every model Cessna 172 I've ever flown, N,P,R,SP

jtrain609 · September 20th, 2005, 00:06

I've flown some N's and M's where you could not adjust the seat height.

mtsu_av8er · September 20th, 2005, 02:21

[ QUOTE ]
I've flown some N's and M's where you could not adjust the seat height.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ditto.

flyguy · September 20th, 2005, 18:48

Me too, I was just pointing out that adjustable seats is not a feature specific to the SPs.

kellwolf · September 21st, 2005, 23:56

[ QUOTE ]
I've flown some N's and M's where you could not adjust the seat height.

[/ QUOTE ]

Grrr, 95E. Oh, and I'm really hating the fact that 043 doesn't have a window that opens on the right side. Taxiing with the door open is fine until a gust of wind slams it into your arm.

hattrick · September 23rd, 2005, 19:13

yeah i used to get my hand or arm or someother part of my body slammed by those d*mn doors without the opening window.

but back to the approach thing. i flew a ils approach in imc down to about 100' above mins the very first time i flew a navajo. i was sitting in the back watching the chief pilot testing some interviewees when he got tired of them and decided to call me up and see if i could do it any better. needless to say i think i did do better than some but i climbed out of the airplane and seriously wanted to beat my head against something. it really sucked if you ask me. oh well i was already flying for the company just not in the navajo so i didnt have to impress anyone thankfully. point being, as has been said an approach is an approach no matter what plane you are in. different planes do fly differently though so yeah shooting an approach and trying to get the feel for a new airplane at the same time can be difficult and make you feel kinda lame but hey its always going to be a learning experience and a fun challenge

(disclaimer: i am really bored so i was rambling and take no responsibility for anything i said

)

September 19th, 2005, 11:43	#1
KevinT Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 93	partial panel NDB approach in an unfamiliar plane anyone else have problems with this? I was in an unfamiliar plane today. (c-172sp) vs a piper cadet my norm. obviously the instruments and everything work the same, but the plane flies different being a high wing with 20 more HP. and some other little things like steering. I did an ndb approach today with the DG and artificial horizon covered up. I had a hell of a time... it sucked. any tips for help practicing things like this while in an unfamiliar plane? I realize once I get my cfi I should be able to hop in any plane and fly it, and my PPL is for single engine land... but it DOES make a difference... to me anyways.

September 19th, 2005, 12:09	#2
BoilerPilot2007 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Chicago Posts: 444	Re: partial panel NDB approach in an unfamiliar plane It sure could make a difference. However, I'm willing to bet that the biggest factors affecting your performance were not the airplane itself. 1) NDB approaches are tricky. 2) NDB approaches with a different scan than you're used to make it much more difficult. Add in some winds, perhaps a long day, and a new airplane, voila, you've got a pretty ugly NDB approach. Don't be discouraged. NDBs are tough approaches to fly. Keep practicing, and eventually one approach will be just like the next, regardless of the airplane you're in. NDB approaches + instrument failures = evil CFI (you'll thank them later)

September 19th, 2005, 15:38	#3
flyguy Old Skool Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 2,094	Re: partial panel NDB approach in an unfamiliar plane [ QUOTE ] anyone else have problems with this? [/ QUOTE ] Depends. Is there any wind at all? Is there a crosswind component at all? If so then yeah, very much so. Even full panel they can be a kick in the butt if there's some wind trying to blow you off course. Cover up the DG and I don't care how familiar you are with the plane, its gonna take some practice, and even then it probably won't ever be easy. But try not to get too frustrated, with practice you'll get it.

September 19th, 2005, 18:11	#4
MidlifeFlyer Old Skool Join Date: May 2003 Location: Denver Colorado Posts: 3,022	Re: partial panel NDB approach in an unfamiliar plane Given the same type of NDB equipment (fixed card, rotating, card, RMI, HSI) I'm having trouble imagining what could be different in =navigating= an NDB in different airplanes (whether full or partical panel) The only thing that I can see being a factor in an unfamiliar make/model is the =flying= part. If you are constantly playing with pitch and power and trying to figure out what a standard rate turn is in that airplane, then you are way too busy with the flying to do much accurate navigating. So the tip is to go fly the airplane, maybe even make an instrument configuration chart for it. For those who don't know what that is, shame on your CFII! It's a table of the aircraft power setting, configuration and airspeed for each of the primary instrument approach flight phases - Approach Level, Precision Descent, Nonprecision descent and MDA Level (some folks make the more complex than others).

September 19th, 2005, 18:15	#5
KevinT Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 93	Re: partial panel NDB approach in an unfamiliar plane thanks for all the replies. it wasn't so much the NDB approach itself, it was just that I was terrible at it this time. wether it was the plane or just me I dunno. I did learn that in a cessna 172 sp you can adjust the seat height... didn't realize that until we were taxing back after flying. I guess the person that had the plane last was real short lol. thanks again!

September 19th, 2005, 22:56	#6
flyguy Old Skool Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 2,094	Re: partial panel NDB approach in an unfamiliar plane You can adjust the seat height in every model Cessna 172 I've ever flown, N,P,R,SP

September 20th, 2005, 00:06	#7
jtrain609 Old Skool Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Park City, UT Posts: 12,329	Re: partial panel NDB approach in an unfamiliar plane I've flown some N's and M's where you could not adjust the seat height.

September 20th, 2005, 02:21	#8
mtsu_av8er Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Utopia Posts: 12,564	Re: partial panel NDB approach in an unfamiliar plane [ QUOTE ] I've flown some N's and M's where you could not adjust the seat height. [/ QUOTE ] Ditto.

September 20th, 2005, 18:48	#9
flyguy Old Skool Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 2,094	Re: partial panel NDB approach in an unfamiliar plane Me too, I was just pointing out that adjustable seats is not a feature specific to the SPs.

September 21st, 2005, 23:56	#10
kellwolf Old Skool Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 13,833	Re: partial panel NDB approach in an unfamiliar plane [ QUOTE ] I've flown some N's and M's where you could not adjust the seat height. [/ QUOTE ] Grrr, 95E. Oh, and I'm really hating the fact that 043 doesn't have a window that opens on the right side. Taxiing with the door open is fine until a gust of wind slams it into your arm.

September 23rd, 2005, 19:13	#11
hattrick Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: farther north than the rest of you Posts: 313	Re: partial panel NDB approach in an unfamiliar plane yeah i used to get my hand or arm or someother part of my body slammed by those d*mn doors without the opening window. but back to the approach thing. i flew a ils approach in imc down to about 100' above mins the very first time i flew a navajo. i was sitting in the back watching the chief pilot testing some interviewees when he got tired of them and decided to call me up and see if i could do it any better. needless to say i think i did do better than some but i climbed out of the airplane and seriously wanted to beat my head against something. it really sucked if you ask me. oh well i was already flying for the company just not in the navajo so i didnt have to impress anyone thankfully. point being, as has been said an approach is an approach no matter what plane you are in. different planes do fly differently though so yeah shooting an approach and trying to get the feel for a new airplane at the same time can be difficult and make you feel kinda lame but hey its always going to be a learning experience and a fun challenge (disclaimer: i am really bored so i was rambling and take no responsibility for anything i said )

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