FSDO and stage checks

dakovich · July 23rd, 2005, 12:12

so, we're a 141 flight school with a chief CFI and no assistant. some news the other day came in that the FAA isn't all that happy that our chief pilot has been giving all of his own students their stage checks. there's no assistant to give stage checks for the chief's students so he's been doing it himself. guess thats kind of a no-no by the FAA as we've been told. so, we're going to be switching over to using FSDO examiners for all of the stage checks in our 141 course. anyone ever come across this scenerio before??

EatSleepFly · July 23rd, 2005, 14:48

That's actually a violation of the FAR's. I would say that he's lucky they didn't revoke the 141 certificate for something like that.

141.37

(c) A check instructor may not conduct a stage check or an end-of-course test of any student for whom the check instructor has:

(1) Served as the principal instructor; or

(2) Recommended for a stage check or end-of-course test.

dakovich · July 23rd, 2005, 15:58

that is for "check instructors", he is a Chief Instructor. i guess that was the problem and grey area of concern. last year he had asked FSDO about that exact FAR and they said it did not apply to him since he was the Chief. as of last week though they have said that after further research they are requiring that he use other routes for his students stage checks.

EatSleepFly · July 23rd, 2005, 16:21

[ QUOTE ]
that is for "check instructors", he is a Chief Instructor.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not when he's giving a stage check.

sopdan · July 23rd, 2005, 16:55

I assume there are other instructors at the school. Why hasn't he made them check instructors? You don't have to be an assistant chief to do prog/stage checks.

He may be the chief instructor, but when conducting prog/stage checks he is a check instructor as well. If the FSDO said it was okay, I'd say they need to pull their heads out of their @$$es.

And like the ESF said, he's lucky he's still in operation.

mtsu_av8er · July 23rd, 2005, 20:28

[ QUOTE ]

I assume there are other instructors at the school. Why hasn't he made them check instructors? You don't have to be an assistant chief to do prog/stage checks.

[/ QUOTE ]

However . . .
141.33 (d) A pilot school and a provisional pilot school may designate a person to be a check instructor for conducting student stage checks, end-of-course tests, and instructor proficiency checks, provided:

(1) That person meets the requirements of §141.37 of this part; and

(2) That school has a student enrollment of at least 50 students at the time designation is sought.

(e) A person, as listed in this section, may serve in more than one position for a school, provided that person is qualified for each position.

The Chief can serve as a check airman, but not for his/her own students. Also, as shown above, a flight school has to have at least 50 141 students in order to have check instructors.

Guess how many check instructors we have at WOE? None. Guess who does allllll the stage checks/end of course checks?

Except my own students . . . then the Chief has to come in to work.

sopdan · July 23rd, 2005, 20:45

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I assume there are other instructors at the school. Why hasn't he made them check instructors? You don't have to be an assistant chief to do prog/stage checks.

[/ QUOTE ]

However . . .
141.33 (d) A pilot school and a provisional pilot school may designate a person to be a check instructor for conducting student stage checks, end-of-course tests, and instructor proficiency checks, provided:

(1) That person meets the requirements of §141.37 of this part; and

(2) That school has a student enrollment of at least 50 students at the time designation is sought.

[/b]

[/ QUOTE ]

Ahh, thanks for that, didn't know that small tidbit... but I wasn't completely wrong, either.

dakovich · July 25th, 2005, 11:30

yup, we have less than 50 141 students so we have no "check instructors". and seeing as the chief CFI has about 90% of the student load at our school the FAA was none too happy about him doing stage checks for his own guys. i mean its probably bad enough if he was doing just a couple students, but the majority of the school is his. good thing was that he did question the FSDO on what he should do and they did tell him that he was fine doing his own students. and of course months later they said no to that, saying they had looked into it more and found the practice to be unaceptable.

July 23rd, 2005, 12:12	#1
dakovich Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Buffalo, NY Posts: 1,033	FSDO and stage checks so, we're a 141 flight school with a chief CFI and no assistant. some news the other day came in that the FAA isn't all that happy that our chief pilot has been giving all of his own students their stage checks. there's no assistant to give stage checks for the chief's students so he's been doing it himself. guess thats kind of a no-no by the FAA as we've been told. so, we're going to be switching over to using FSDO examiners for all of the stage checks in our 141 course. anyone ever come across this scenerio before??

July 23rd, 2005, 14:48	#2
EatSleepFly Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: ?? Posts: 4,600	Re: FSDO and stage checks That's actually a violation of the FAR's. I would say that he's lucky they didn't revoke the 141 certificate for something like that. *141.37* (c) A check instructor may not conduct a stage check or an end-of-course test of any student for whom the check instructor has: (1) Served as the principal instructor; or (2) Recommended for a stage check or end-of-course test.

July 23rd, 2005, 15:58	#3
dakovich Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Buffalo, NY Posts: 1,033	Re: FSDO and stage checks that is for "check instructors", he is a Chief Instructor. i guess that was the problem and grey area of concern. last year he had asked FSDO about that exact FAR and they said it did not apply to him since he was the Chief. as of last week though they have said that after further research they are requiring that he use other routes for his students stage checks.

July 23rd, 2005, 16:21	#4
EatSleepFly Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: ?? Posts: 4,600	Re: FSDO and stage checks [ QUOTE ] that is for "check instructors", he is a Chief Instructor. [/ QUOTE ] Not when he's giving a stage check.

July 23rd, 2005, 16:55	#5
sopdan Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 638	Re: FSDO and stage checks I assume there are other instructors at the school. Why hasn't he made them check instructors? You don't have to be an assistant chief to do prog/stage checks. He may be the chief instructor, but when conducting prog/stage checks he is a check instructor as well. If the FSDO said it was okay, I'd say they need to pull their heads out of their @$$es. And like the ESF said, he's lucky he's still in operation.

July 23rd, 2005, 20:28	#6
mtsu_av8er Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Utopia Posts: 12,568	Re: FSDO and stage checks [ QUOTE ] I assume there are other instructors at the school. Why hasn't he made them check instructors? You don't have to be an assistant chief to do prog/stage checks. [/ QUOTE ] However . . . 141.33 (d) A pilot school and a provisional pilot school may designate a person to be a check instructor for conducting student stage checks, end-of-course tests, and instructor proficiency checks, provided: (1) That person meets the requirements of §141.37 of this part; and (2) That school has a student enrollment of at least 50 students at the time designation is sought. (e) A person, as listed in this section, may serve in more than one position for a school, provided that person is qualified for each position. The Chief can serve as a check airman, but not for his/her own students. Also, as shown above, a flight school has to have at least 50 141 students in order to have check instructors. Guess how many check instructors we have at WOE? None. Guess who does allllll the stage checks/end of course checks? Except my own students . . . then the Chief has to come in to work.

July 23rd, 2005, 20:45	#7
sopdan Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 638	Re: FSDO and stage checks [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I assume there are other instructors at the school. Why hasn't he made them check instructors? You don't have to be an assistant chief to do prog/stage checks. [/ QUOTE ] However . . . 141.33 (d) A pilot school and a provisional pilot school may designate a person to be a check instructor for conducting student stage checks, end-of-course tests, and instructor proficiency checks, provided: (1) That person meets the requirements of §141.37 of this part; and (2) That school has a student enrollment of at least 50 students at the time designation is sought. [/b] [/ QUOTE ] Ahh, thanks for that, didn't know that small tidbit... but I wasn't completely wrong, either.

July 25th, 2005, 11:30	#8
dakovich Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Buffalo, NY Posts: 1,033	Re: FSDO and stage checks yup, we have less than 50 141 students so we have no "check instructors". and seeing as the chief CFI has about 90% of the student load at our school the FAA was none too happy about him doing stage checks for his own guys. i mean its probably bad enough if he was doing just a couple students, but the majority of the school is his. good thing was that he did question the FSDO on what he should do and they did tell him that he was fine doing his own students. and of course months later they said no to that, saying they had looked into it more and found the practice to be unaceptable.

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