Expired CFI certificates

Chris_Ford · June 24th, 2005, 18:35

Well, it's that time again. It's "confirm for me that my eyes aren't failing me and my mind hasn't gone astray" hour!

I talked to a guy today who got his CFI years and years ago (1975ish?) and he wants to get his CFII. His certificate has been expired for 10 years or so.

Now, 61.197(1)(ii) states that his CFI certificate is renewed by adding a rating to his CFI (which CFII is).

So what I'm asking for clarification is, that he needs not to learn how to re-teach Chandelles, lazy 8s, etc, and I can do the CFII training for him, and upon completion of the test, he will be current as a CFI-A.

Yes?

I always think these things are straightforward but I'd rather not get caught in some legal loophole

Grabo172 · June 24th, 2005, 19:21

Yes, If he learns and passes his CFII check Ride, he'll be legal for CFI-A also.

I would include in his training for CFII all the neccessary CFI-A maneuvers also.

Has he quit flying since it expired, or has he simply let his CFI expire?

If he truely does want to get back into the flying (presuming he hasn't flown since his expiration), he will understand that the time training for his CFII will also include many hours of Commercial/ private maneuver practice as well.

Chris_Ford · June 24th, 2005, 20:29

No, in fact he's a check airman with ATA, and he's been flying the 738 and the 757 for those years when he hasn't gotten into the piston singles...

Grabo172 · June 24th, 2005, 20:34

Well, I guess you can call that flying...

I think he'll be OK for teaching the CFI-A material... he'll just need to practice them a bit in a single engine plane again... maybe do 1 or 2 flights for it.

I'd feel comfortable with that and then just getting the CFII material done to renew his certifcate.

Watch his landings though... I've done may a checkout in 172s with C-17 Pilots... and they don't want to slow down... for some reason they think 65 Knots is going to kill them...

Chris_Ford · June 24th, 2005, 22:42

Yeah, I joked today about not letting him flare at 50 feet and/or engaging the autoland system

Thanks for the help!

MrSandman · June 25th, 2005, 20:48

[ QUOTE ]
No, in fact he's a check airman with ATA, and he's been flying the 738 and the 757 for those years when he hasn't gotten into the piston singles...

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, once he gets it current again, per FAR 61.197, all he has to do is present evidence of being a check airman for that part 121 operation to renew it when the time comes.

Grabo172 · June 25th, 2005, 21:18

Good Point!

Chris_Ford · June 25th, 2005, 21:36

Yes, an excellent point, but "is" should've read "was".

My bad

MrSandman · June 26th, 2005, 14:25

[ QUOTE ]
Yes, an excellent point, but "is" should've read "was".

My bad

[/ QUOTE ]

Ah...now it becomes clear.

GaTechKid · June 26th, 2005, 15:02

Chris - If his CFI certificate is actually expired then you need to look at 61.199.

Chris_Ford · June 26th, 2005, 19:43

Ah yes, I was 1 FAR short.

BUT, in order to renew, does he need to have the training from a CFI with 2 yrs/100 dual given or not? That's where the hangup is.

GaTechKid · June 26th, 2005, 19:46

I would call both my DE and the FSDO to find out....or PM MidlifeFlyer........either one

June 24th, 2005, 18:35	#1
Chris_Ford Banned Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 7,329	Expired CFI certificates Well, it's that time again. It's "confirm for me that my eyes aren't failing me and my mind hasn't gone astray" hour! I talked to a guy today who got his CFI years and years ago (1975ish?) and he wants to get his CFII. His certificate has been expired for 10 years or so. Now, 61.197(1)(ii) states that his CFI certificate is renewed by adding a rating to his CFI (which CFII is). So what I'm asking for clarification is, that he needs not to learn how to re-teach Chandelles, lazy 8s, etc, and I can do the CFII training for him, and upon completion of the test, he will be current as a CFI-A. Yes? I always think these things are straightforward but I'd rather not get caught in some legal loophole

June 24th, 2005, 19:21	#2
Grabo172 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Peterborough, NH Posts: 1,281	Re: Expired CFI certificates Yes, If he learns and passes his CFII check Ride, he'll be legal for CFI-A also. I would include in his training for CFII all the neccessary CFI-A maneuvers also. Has he quit flying since it expired, or has he simply let his CFI expire? If he truely does want to get back into the flying (presuming he hasn't flown since his expiration), he will understand that the time training for his CFII will also include many hours of Commercial/ private maneuver practice as well.

June 24th, 2005, 20:29	#3
Chris_Ford Banned Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 7,329	Re: Expired CFI certificates No, in fact he's a check airman with ATA, and he's been flying the 738 and the 757 for those years when he hasn't gotten into the piston singles...

June 24th, 2005, 20:34	#4
Grabo172 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Peterborough, NH Posts: 1,281	Re: Expired CFI certificates Well, I guess you can call that flying... I think he'll be OK for teaching the CFI-A material... he'll just need to practice them a bit in a single engine plane again... maybe do 1 or 2 flights for it. I'd feel comfortable with that and then just getting the CFII material done to renew his certifcate. Watch his landings though... I've done may a checkout in 172s with C-17 Pilots... and they don't want to slow down... for some reason they think 65 Knots is going to kill them...

June 24th, 2005, 22:42	#5
Chris_Ford Banned Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 7,329	Re: Expired CFI certificates Yeah, I joked today about not letting him flare at 50 feet and/or engaging the autoland system Thanks for the help!

June 25th, 2005, 20:48	#6
MrSandman Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 67	Re: Expired CFI certificates [ QUOTE ] No, in fact he's a check airman with ATA, and he's been flying the 738 and the 757 for those years when he hasn't gotten into the piston singles... [/ QUOTE ] Well, once he gets it current again, per FAR 61.197, all he has to do is present evidence of being a check airman for that part 121 operation to renew it when the time comes.

June 25th, 2005, 21:18	#7
Grabo172 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Peterborough, NH Posts: 1,281	Re: Expired CFI certificates Good Point!

June 25th, 2005, 21:36	#8
Chris_Ford Banned Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 7,329	Re: Expired CFI certificates Yes, an excellent point, but "is" should've read "was". My bad

June 26th, 2005, 14:25	#9
MrSandman Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 67	Re: Expired CFI certificates [ QUOTE ] Yes, an excellent point, but "is" should've read "was". My bad [/ QUOTE ] Ah...now it becomes clear.

June 26th, 2005, 15:02	#10
GaTechKid Old Skool Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Frigid NWA Hub Posts: 1,885	Re: Expired CFI certificates Chris - If his CFI certificate is actually expired then you need to look at 61.199.

June 26th, 2005, 19:43	#11
Chris_Ford Banned Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 7,329	Re: Expired CFI certificates Ah yes, I was 1 FAR short. BUT, in order to renew, does he need to have the training from a CFI with 2 yrs/100 dual given or not? That's where the hangup is.

June 26th, 2005, 19:46	#12
GaTechKid Old Skool Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Frigid NWA Hub Posts: 1,885	Re: Expired CFI certificates I would call both my DE and the FSDO to find out....or PM MidlifeFlyer........either one

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