TPA

[B]

I was compiling my lesson plan on traffic patterns today and I was unable to find a reference for the traffic pattern altitude to use if the AFD does not list one. My instructor says she has never found one and she uses 800 feet AGL. Another instructor couldn't find one either but he says you are required to use 1000 AGL. Now I know it may be higher for large or jet aircraft but does anyone know of a clear answer with a reference. The only one I found was in the airplane flying handbook on pg 7-2 but it is not anything set in stone. Thanks

[kellwolf]

I've always used 1000 AGL. Not sure if there is a hard and fast rule if it's not listed in the AFD. Now that I think about it, we used 600-800 AGL for the Citabria, but I think that was just to keep from getting run over by those speed demons in the 172s.

[MikeD]

Reference AIM 4-3-3.

[ QUOTE ]

At most airports and military air bases, traffic pattern altitudes for propeller-driven aircraft generally extend from 600 feet to as high as 1,500 feet above the ground. Also, traffic pattern altitudes for military turbojet aircraft sometimes extend up to 2,500 feet above the ground. Therefore, pilots of en route aircraft should be constantly on the alert for other aircraft in traffic patterns and avoid these areas whenever possible. Traffic pattern altitudes should be maintained unless otherwise required by the applicable distance from cloud criteria (14 CFR Section 91.155).........

...........Key to traffic pattern operations

1. Enter pattern in level flight, abeam the midpoint of the runway, at pattern altitude. (1,000' AGL is recommended pattern altitude unless established otherwise. . .)

2. Maintain pattern altitude until abeam approach end of the landing runway on downwind leg.

3. Complete turn to final at least 1/4 mile from the runway.

4. Continue straight ahead until beyond departure end of runway.

5. If remaining in the traffic pattern, commence turn to crosswind leg beyond the departure end of the runway within 300 feet of pattern altitude.
.................................


[/ QUOTE ]

[B]

I guess if 1000 feet is recommended, then that is what I will use. But I know this will be a continuing debate without an actual regulation to quote.

[GaTechKid]

[ QUOTE ]
I was compiling my lesson plan on traffic patterns today and I was unable to find a reference for the traffic pattern altitude to use if the AFD does not list one.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why weren't you content with using the AFH or the AIM as your lesson plan references? According to the FAA, the proper procedures to use are written by them in their publications, so don't be hesitant to use them even though there's no "hard and fast" regulation to cite.

[B]

I am ok with using the AFH or any other reference, but at the flight school I attend there are 22 CFI's , all with their own opinions. The only way to survive is to now you stuff well and be able to back it up. In my example I said that my instructor used 800 feet AGL at a near by airport and another instructor uses 1000 feet AGL. If you look in the flight guide for that airport it says to use 800 feet AGL. Some instructors had said that the flight guide is not a FAA publication and you should use 1000 feet AGL. Apparently the only "advice" is the reference in the AIM that is stated above. So at this time we have instructor from the same flight school using two different TPA's

[kellwolf]

Well, when you get 22 CFIs in a room and there is no FAR to reference, there's gonna be 22 different opinions. In absence of a FAR, I'd go with the AIM. They're right in that Flight Guide isn't an FAA publication, but the AIM is.

[MidlifeFlyer]

Some airports publish recommended pattern altitude in the A/FD (usually reported on AirNav), but it's rare. In it's absence we're left with the AIM's not-too-useful "generally extend from 600 feet to as high as 1,500 feet above the ground"

In that context, if there is nothing in the A/FD I'm happy to use the Flight Guide recommendation, which is usually based on inquiries and reports from the airports themselves..

[MikeD]

[ QUOTE ]
Some airports publish recommended pattern altitude in the A/FD (usually reported on AirNav), but it's rare. In it's absence we're left with the AIM's not-too-useful "generally extend from 600 feet to as high as 1,500 feet above the ground"

In that context, if there is nothing in the A/FD I'm happy to use the Flight Guide recommendation, which is usually based on inquiries and reports from the airports themselves..

[/ QUOTE ]

The AIM does say 1000 AGL recommended in it's "keys to traffic pattern ops".

[PacMan4x4]

Actually Kellwolf, if you put 22 CFI's in a room you'll get 23 different answers...cuz one A@@hole won't be able to make up his mind... Just funnin' with ya'll CFI's
If you stick with the recommended procedures in the AIM, as MikeD kindly briefed, you can't go wrong...unless the TPA is spelled out in the AF/D. I learned 1000' AGL in my training as many others have.