Practical Test Endorsements

stultus · February 10th, 2005, 19:43

What endorsements do you need to give a applicant for an Initial Practical Test, i.e., Private Pilot Airplane Single Engine Land? I'm a little uncertain about this--not looking for solo, knowledge test endorsements, etc., but specifically what is needed just for the practical test.

SteveC · February 10th, 2005, 19:48

[off-topic]
stultus!

long time, no see!

how's things?
[/off-topic]

GregCollins2 · February 10th, 2005, 20:29

Check out this link for required endorsements and formats:
http://www.aopa.org/asf/publications.../980121upd.pdf

stultus · February 10th, 2005, 23:54

The problem with the AOPA thing is that it's not a legal document from the FAA. I'll hopefully be a CFI next week and when I get to write endorsements I want to cover my @55 with something right from the Federal Gov't. I looked at briefly at the aopa doc and the only endorsement I looked up--the Private Pilot Flight Proficiency Endorsement--cites the wrong numbers.

My ground instructor says that for any initial applicant for a practical test I need to give:
1.) Aeronautical Knowledge for the PRACTICAL TEST (not just the Knowledge test).
2.)Flight Proficiency and Aeronautical Experience
3.)Training within 60 days and reviewed knowledge test errors (61.39a)
4.)Any Additional endorsements necessary, i.e., complex, high perf, high alt, etc.

It's actually #1 giving me the difficulty since it is not in AC61-65D and the FARs aren't very...uh...what's the word...forthright?...

stultus · February 11th, 2005, 00:08

[ QUOTE ]
[off-topic]
stultus!

long time, no see!

how's things?
[/off-topic]

[/ QUOTE ]

I've been drinking full time from the firehose of aeronautical knowledge. I should be done with that in a couple of weeks and then be around here a little more. how's things for you?

MidlifeFlyer · February 11th, 2005, 00:21

AC 61-65D

No one who is even =thinking= about a CFI should be without it.

http://www.faa.gov/fsdo/slc/6165d.htm

kellwolf · February 11th, 2005, 03:28

[ QUOTE ]
AC 61-65D

No one who is even =thinking= about a CFI should be without it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Saved a copy on my "CFI tools" CD-RW last night.

Josh · February 11th, 2005, 03:50

Than first reference may be related to 61.107s reference to ground and flight HERE

or the 61.105 requirement HERE

Don't forget you'll also be required to sign the 8710 for the student, so that would be another required endorsement.

The AC 61-65D isn't all that great, as it doesn't even give a 61.39a example.

MidlifeFlyer · February 11th, 2005, 08:49

[ QUOTE ]
The AC 61-65D isn't all that great, as it doesn't even give a 61.39a example.

[/ QUOTE ] Huh? I guess you're right. It doesn't give "an" example. It gives =twelve= of them, broken down by the certificate or rating being applied for.

==============================
9. PREREQUISITES FOR PRACTICAL TESTS. Except as provided by § 61.39(c), each applicant must have received an endorsement from an authorized instructor who certifies the applicant has received and logged the required flight time/training in preparation for the practical test within 60 days preceding the date of the test and has been found proficient to pass the practical test. See Appendix 1, endorsements 12, 18, 20, 22, 24, 37, and 39.

NOTE: The endorsement must also state that the applicant has satisfactory knowledge of the subject areas in which he/she was shown to be deficient by the FAA airman knowledge test report, if required. See Appendix 1, endorsements 11, 17, 19, 21, and 23.
==============================

stultus · February 12th, 2005, 00:03

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The AC 61-65D isn't all that great, as it doesn't even give a 61.39a example.

[/ QUOTE ] Huh? I guess you're right. It doesn't give "an" example. It gives =twelve= of them, broken down by the certificate or rating being applied for.

==============================
9. PREREQUISITES FOR PRACTICAL TESTS. Except as provided by § 61.39(c), each applicant must have received an endorsement from an authorized instructor who certifies the applicant has received and logged the required flight time/training in preparation for the practical test within 60 days preceding the date of the test and has been found proficient to pass the practical test. See Appendix 1, endorsements 12, 18, 20, 22, 24, 37, and 39.

NOTE: The endorsement must also state that the applicant has satisfactory knowledge of the subject areas in which he/she was shown to be deficient by the FAA airman knowledge test report, if required. See Appendix 1, endorsements 11, 17, 19, 21, and 23.
==============================

[/ QUOTE ]

But none of those endorsements specifically cite that training was done within 60 days nor that the knowledge test was reviewed and student found competent. It does seem like those endorsements are completely left out of AC 61-65D. Though I agree that it is a great starting point, but it doesn't suppply everything, the FARs still need to be referenced properly.

Does anyone have an answer to my orginal question? Is it necessary to have an "Aeronautical Knowledge" endorsement for an Initial Private Pilot Airplane SE Land applicant, like:

I certify that Douglas E. Taylor has received the required training of 61.105(b). I have determined that he is prepared for the Private Pilot Airplane Single Engine Land Practial Test.

kellwolf · February 12th, 2005, 03:19

[ QUOTE ]
I certify that Douglas E. Taylor has received the required training of 61.105(b). I have determined that he is prepared for the Private Pilot Airplane Single Engine Land Practial Test.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmm, most of my endorsements have a date next to the CFI's sig. I guess the DE could just use basic subtraction to determine if it's 60 days or not.

Josh · February 12th, 2005, 03:19

Yup. Like I said, doesn't give an example

What Mark missed, is what you pointed out. Text talking about what you need to do is not an example. Just says what needs to be done, not an example of the wording.

I can figure out the wording like the style you gave, but the AC is not the end all, be all. Just a good starting point.

MidlifeFlyer · February 12th, 2005, 09:15

[ QUOTE ]
Does anyone have an answer to my original question? Is it necessary to have an "Aeronautical Knowledge" endorsement for an Initial Private Pilot Airplane SE Land applicant, like:

[/ QUOTE ]

For the knowledge test, yes. 61.35. But for the practical test, the knowledge test report takes care of it. 61.39.

FWIW, from a practical standpoint I have preprinted labels that I use for the practical tests that combine the required endorsements . For example:

I certify that:
1. ______________________ has received the ground and flight training required by FAR 61.107 and 61.109.
2. I have given him/her flight training in preparation for the practical test within the preceding 60 days.
3. S/he is prepared for the private pilot - airplane single engine practical test.

February 10th, 2005, 19:48	#2
SteveC Moderator Join Date: May 2003 Location: GRR Posts: 8,630	Re: Practical Test Endorsements [off-topic] stultus! long time, no see! how's things? [/off-topic]

February 10th, 2005, 20:29	#3
GregCollins2 Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Hendersonville, NC Posts: 284	Re: Practical Test Endorsements Check out this link for required endorsements and formats: http://www.aopa.org/asf/publications.../980121upd.pdf

February 10th, 2005, 23:54	#4
stultus Senior Member Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 524	Re: Practical Test Endorsements The problem with the AOPA thing is that it's not a legal document from the FAA. I'll hopefully be a CFI next week and when I get to write endorsements I want to cover my @55 with something right from the Federal Gov't. I looked at briefly at the aopa doc and the only endorsement I looked up--the Private Pilot Flight Proficiency Endorsement--cites the wrong numbers. My ground instructor says that for any initial applicant for a practical test I need to give: 1.) Aeronautical Knowledge for the PRACTICAL TEST (not just the Knowledge test). 2.)Flight Proficiency and Aeronautical Experience 3.)Training within 60 days and reviewed knowledge test errors (61.39a) 4.)Any Additional endorsements necessary, i.e., complex, high perf, high alt, etc. It's actually #1 giving me the difficulty since it is not in AC61-65D and the FARs aren't very...uh...what's the word...forthright?...

February 11th, 2005, 00:08	#5
stultus Senior Member Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 524	Re: Practical Test Endorsements [ QUOTE ] [off-topic] stultus! long time, no see! how's things? [/off-topic] [/ QUOTE ] I've been drinking full time from the firehose of aeronautical knowledge. I should be done with that in a couple of weeks and then be around here a little more. how's things for you?

February 11th, 2005, 00:21	#6
MidlifeFlyer Old Skool Join Date: May 2003 Location: Denver Colorado Posts: 3,027	Re: Practical Test Endorsements AC 61-65D No one who is even =thinking= about a CFI should be without it. http://www.faa.gov/fsdo/slc/6165d.htm

February 10th, 2005, 19:43	#1
stultus Senior Member Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 524	Practical Test Endorsements What endorsements do you need to give a applicant for an Initial Practical Test, i.e., Private Pilot Airplane Single Engine Land? I'm a little uncertain about this--not looking for solo, knowledge test endorsements, etc., but specifically what is needed just for the practical test.

February 11th, 2005, 03:28	#7
kellwolf Old Skool Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 13,868	Re: Practical Test Endorsements [ QUOTE ] AC 61-65D No one who is even =thinking= about a CFI should be without it. [/ QUOTE ] Saved a copy on my "CFI tools" CD-RW last night.

February 11th, 2005, 03:50	#8
Josh Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Santa Cruz, California Posts: 686	Re: Practical Test Endorsements Than first reference may be related to 61.107s reference to ground and flight HERE or the 61.105 requirement HERE Don't forget you'll also be required to sign the 8710 for the student, so that would be another required endorsement. The AC 61-65D isn't all that great, as it doesn't even give a 61.39a example.

February 11th, 2005, 08:49	#9
MidlifeFlyer Old Skool Join Date: May 2003 Location: Denver Colorado Posts: 3,027	Re: Practical Test Endorsements [ QUOTE ] The AC 61-65D isn't all that great, as it doesn't even give a 61.39a example. [/ QUOTE ] Huh? I guess you're right. It doesn't give "an" example. It gives =twelve= of them, broken down by the certificate or rating being applied for. ============================== 9. PREREQUISITES FOR PRACTICAL TESTS. Except as provided by § 61.39(c), each applicant must have received an endorsement from an authorized instructor who certifies the applicant has received and logged the required flight time/training in preparation for the practical test within 60 days preceding the date of the test and has been found proficient to pass the practical test. See Appendix 1, endorsements 12, 18, 20, 22, 24, 37, and 39. NOTE: The endorsement must also state that the applicant has satisfactory knowledge of the subject areas in which he/she was shown to be deficient by the FAA airman knowledge test report, if required. See Appendix 1, endorsements 11, 17, 19, 21, and 23. ==============================

February 12th, 2005, 00:03	#10
stultus Senior Member Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 524	Re: Practical Test Endorsements [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] The AC 61-65D isn't all that great, as it doesn't even give a 61.39a example. [/ QUOTE ] Huh? I guess you're right. It doesn't give "an" example. It gives =twelve= of them, broken down by the certificate or rating being applied for. ============================== 9. PREREQUISITES FOR PRACTICAL TESTS. Except as provided by § 61.39(c), each applicant must have received an endorsement from an authorized instructor who certifies the applicant has received and logged the required flight time/training in preparation for the practical test within 60 days preceding the date of the test and has been found proficient to pass the practical test. See Appendix 1, endorsements 12, 18, 20, 22, 24, 37, and 39. NOTE: The endorsement must also state that the applicant has satisfactory knowledge of the subject areas in which he/she was shown to be deficient by the FAA airman knowledge test report, if required. See Appendix 1, endorsements 11, 17, 19, 21, and 23. ============================== [/ QUOTE ] But none of those endorsements specifically cite that training was done within 60 days nor that the knowledge test was reviewed and student found competent. It does seem like those endorsements are completely left out of AC 61-65D. Though I agree that it is a great starting point, but it doesn't suppply everything, the FARs still need to be referenced properly. Does anyone have an answer to my orginal question? Is it necessary to have an "Aeronautical Knowledge" endorsement for an Initial Private Pilot Airplane SE Land applicant, like: I certify that Douglas E. Taylor has received the required training of 61.105(b). I have determined that he is prepared for the Private Pilot Airplane Single Engine Land Practial Test.

February 12th, 2005, 03:19	#11
kellwolf Old Skool Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 13,868	Re: Practical Test Endorsements [ QUOTE ] I certify that Douglas E. Taylor has received the required training of 61.105(b). I have determined that he is prepared for the Private Pilot Airplane Single Engine Land Practial Test. [/ QUOTE ] Hmm, most of my endorsements have a date next to the CFI's sig. I guess the DE could just use basic subtraction to determine if it's 60 days or not.

February 12th, 2005, 03:19	#12
Josh Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Santa Cruz, California Posts: 686	Re: Practical Test Endorsements Yup. Like I said, doesn't give an example What Mark missed, is what you pointed out. Text talking about what you need to do is not an example. Just says what needs to be done, not an example of the wording. I can figure out the wording like the style you gave, but the AC is not the end all, be all. Just a good starting point.

February 12th, 2005, 09:15	#13
MidlifeFlyer Old Skool Join Date: May 2003 Location: Denver Colorado Posts: 3,027	Re: Practical Test Endorsements [ QUOTE ] Does anyone have an answer to my original question? Is it necessary to have an "Aeronautical Knowledge" endorsement for an Initial Private Pilot Airplane SE Land applicant, like: [/ QUOTE ] For the knowledge test, yes. 61.35. But for the practical test, the knowledge test report takes care of it. 61.39. FWIW, from a practical standpoint I have preprinted labels that I use for the practical tests that combine the required endorsements . For example: I certify that: 1. ______________________ has received the ground and flight training required by FAR 61.107 and 61.109. 2. I have given him/her flight training in preparation for the practical test within the preceding 60 days. 3. S/he is prepared for the private pilot - airplane single engine practical test.

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