CFI Rating Questions

DrBenny · November 7th, 2004, 19:06

I was out at one of the local airports shooting the breeze with one of the CFIs there today. The topic of commercial training came up, and related how I eventually wanted to get the CFI rating. He gave me an interesting suggestion. He said that if I was sure that I would be going for the CFI, that when I start commercial training, that I should do it all from the right seat. The idea was that there would be no transition time after the commercial rating getting used to right-seat.

I have a couple of questions, though:

1) I would probably do the comm in a Saratoga. From the right seat, the six-pack is really far over to the left, and inconvenient for right-seaters.

2) Will the DPE allow me to take my comm rating checkride from the right seat?

3) Will this method save me time and/or money?

4) Finally, one question not directly related to my conversation with this CFI: would it make sense for me to take both the commercial written AND the CFI written in the same day? (I am exempt from the FOI, as I am a full time college professor.) The idea here is that while I am building solo hours and nighttime hours, I could also be studying for the tests. I get them out of the way, and then all that would be left is the training.

What say you, oh wise, cost-conscious CFIs?

NOTES:

After a cursory glance at the requirements, it looks like I already have all of the hours I need for the commercial certificate, except for the hours specifically training for the required maneuvers.

Ben Myers, PP-ASEL

Enjoying every minute

mtsu_av8er · November 7th, 2004, 19:21

[ QUOTE ]

1) I
2) Will the DPE allow me to take my comm rating checkride from the right seat?

[/ QUOTE ]

Nothing in the PTS says you can't - and what do you need to stare at instruments for? It's a VFR ride...

[ QUOTE ]

3) Will this method save me time and/or money?

[/ QUOTE ]

It definately can!! Most people just don't think about it.

[ QUOTE ]

4) would it make sense for me to take both the commercial written AND the CFI written in the same day?

[/ QUOTE ]

He11 yes!!!

BoilerPilot2007 · November 7th, 2004, 20:24

A former CFI of mine did just that. When the time for his checkride came, he hopped in the right seat. The examiner, confused, asked him to take the checkride from the left seat. He obliged, but said he was fairly uncomfortable with some of the maneuvers from that side because it had been a while since he'd flown left seat. My suggestion would be to find out, about 15 flight hours before your checkride, whether or not your examiner will allow it. By this time, you'll have a better idea of who your examiner would be.

Hope that helps.

EatSleepFly · November 7th, 2004, 20:31

[ QUOTE ]
2) Will the DPE allow me to take my comm rating checkride from the right seat?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you'll have a hard time finding an examiner to agree to it, and in my opinion, rightfully so. None around where I instructed would do it. The Commercial and CFI checkrides are a lot alike, but they are also distinctly different. On your commercial checkride, you are demonstrating that you are capable of flying an airplane for hire. On your CFI checkride, you are demonstrating your ability to teach, which is normally done from the right seat, so you take the ride from there.

My suggestion would be to do a few flights from the right seat during your commercial training to get familiar, but prepare for your checkride in the left seat. Then spend a few hours brushing up in the right again, and it should be an easy transition. Good luck!

PhotoPilot · November 7th, 2004, 20:34

Learning to fly right seat isn't hard. Takes maybe 3 or 4 hours, max. The plane flies exactly the same, you just have to use the opposite hand for throttle and yoke/stick. The hardest part is getting used to the landing perspective. Most people will land slightly crabbed until they get used to the new visual.

Fly from whatever seat you want. If anything, switch it up every couple of flights. You'll need to be proficient on either side, anyway. Whatever you do, don't sweat it.

(And you'll get used to the parallax on the instruments from the right seat pretty fast, too.)

chris · November 7th, 2004, 20:36

I did the instructor rating from the right seat. It's not too hard of a transition. You just have to teach your hands how to communicate with one another!

PhotoPilot · November 7th, 2004, 20:42

[ QUOTE ]
I did the instructor rating from the right seat.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well I would hope so!

mtsu_av8er · November 7th, 2004, 20:45

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
2) Will the DPE allow me to take my comm rating checkride from the right seat?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you'll have a hard time finding an examiner to agree to it, and in my opinion, rightfully so. None around where I instructed would do it. The Commercial and CFI checkrides are a lot alike, but they are also distinctly different. On your commercial checkride, you are demonstrating that you are capable of flying an airplane for hire.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think that it would be a problem, still. You can fly the plane for hire from the right seat just as well as you can from the left seat. Just because nobody will do it doesn't mean it isn't cool to do.

Nobody around here would train me for my CFII as my my initial - except for one guy.

He got my money, and even though the examiner was confused, he had no choice but to give me my checkride!

EatSleepFly · November 7th, 2004, 21:10

Edit: My bad...I read that as taking the Commercial and CFI ride simultaneously.

Disregard anything posted by me!

mtsu_av8er · November 7th, 2004, 21:29

[ QUOTE ]

Disregard anything posted by me!

[/ QUOTE ]

I already do that, Marsh....

Kidding....

EatSleepFly · November 7th, 2004, 23:11

DrBenny · November 8th, 2004, 02:48

Thanks for the responses, guys. There is at least one DPE around these parts who will give comm checkrides while I am in the right seat and he is in the left.

BuckTurgidson · November 8th, 2004, 16:02

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for the responses, guys. There is at least one DPE around these parts who will give comm checkrides while I am in the right seat and he is in the left.

[/ QUOTE ]

As long as you are both not in the right seat.

DrBenny · November 8th, 2004, 19:34

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for the responses, guys. There is at least one DPE around these parts who will give comm checkrides while I am in the right seat and he is in the left.

[/ QUOTE ]

As long as you are both not in the right seat.

[/ QUOTE ]

That would depend who she is, I guess!

ananoman · November 8th, 2004, 21:32

I really don't see that big of an advantage to doing this. It is not that hard to fly from the right seat and the transition will not take that long. You will have to practice doing and teaching the maneuvers during your CFI checkride prep anyway, so I don't see much of a savings here.

As for taking the test the same day, this is a possibility. It is up to you. I would rather just study for one at a time. They don't give a volume discount.

When you take your commercial you should probably also take your AGI written. It does not hurt to have this. It is true that with a CFI you do not really nead the AGI to teach ground school, but the Ground Instructor ratings don't expire either. The AGI and IGI are the cheapest and easiest 'ratings' you can acquire, so you mind as well get them.

DrBenny · November 8th, 2004, 21:55

Good points.

Dazzler · November 9th, 2004, 10:03

[ QUOTE ]
When you take your commercial you should probably also take your AGI written. It does not hurt to have this. It is true that with a CFI you do not really nead the AGI to teach ground school, but the Ground Instructor ratings don't expire either. The AGI and IGI are the cheapest and easiest 'ratings' you can acquire, so you mind as well get them.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you take both the AGI and CFI, don't you have to sit the same written test twice? (and pay twice also!)

(i.e. similar to getting your instrument rating and CFII - you have to take the same written test twice)

EatSleepFly · November 9th, 2004, 21:03

Yeah, but they are seperate writtens/ratings. The AGI/IGI are the easiest "ratings" to get. If you are a CFI, the only way you'd really need it is if you ever want to get your Gold Seal (no biggie if you don't), plus they take up space on the 'ol resume.

aviategw · November 9th, 2004, 21:38

Not entirely true that the ground instructor ratings don't expire. 61.217 Recent experience requirements. Kinda easy to maintain 'currency', tho.

Resume' fodder. That's all.

EatSleepFly · November 9th, 2004, 21:51

Thats only if you are actually excercising the priviliges of it, the rating itself does not expire. Plus, if you are a CFI as well, you're never really using the priviliges of a ground instructor certificate.

mtsu_av8er · November 9th, 2004, 22:12

[ QUOTE ]
Plus, if you are a CFI as well, you're never really using the priviliges of a ground instructor certificate.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmmm...could they prove that?

November 7th, 2004, 19:06	#1
DrBenny Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: MD Posts: 395	CFI Rating Questions I was out at one of the local airports shooting the breeze with one of the CFIs there today. The topic of commercial training came up, and related how I eventually wanted to get the CFI rating. He gave me an interesting suggestion. He said that if I was sure that I would be going for the CFI, that when I start commercial training, that I should do it all from the right seat. The idea was that there would be no transition time after the commercial rating getting used to right-seat. I have a couple of questions, though: 1) I would probably do the comm in a Saratoga. From the right seat, the six-pack is really far over to the left, and inconvenient for right-seaters. 2) Will the DPE allow me to take my comm rating checkride from the right seat? 3) Will this method save me time and/or money? 4) Finally, one question not directly related to my conversation with this CFI: would it make sense for me to take both the commercial written AND the CFI written in the same day? (I am exempt from the FOI, as I am a full time college professor.) The idea here is that while I am building solo hours and nighttime hours, I could also be studying for the tests. I get them out of the way, and then all that would be left is the training. What say you, oh wise, cost-conscious CFIs? NOTES: After a cursory glance at the requirements, it looks like I already have all of the hours I need for the commercial certificate, except for the hours specifically training for the required maneuvers. Ben Myers, PP-ASEL Enjoying every minute

November 7th, 2004, 19:21	#2
mtsu_av8er Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Utopia Posts: 12,567	Re: CFI Rating Questions [ QUOTE ] 1) I 2) Will the DPE allow me to take my comm rating checkride from the right seat? [/ QUOTE ] Nothing in the PTS says you can't - and what do you need to stare at instruments for? It's a VFR ride... [ QUOTE ] 3) Will this method save me time and/or money? [/ QUOTE ] It definately can!! Most people just don't think about it. [ QUOTE ] 4) would it make sense for me to take both the commercial written AND the CFI written in the same day? [/ QUOTE ] He11 yes!!!

November 7th, 2004, 20:24	#3
BoilerPilot2007 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Chicago Posts: 444	Re: CFI Rating Questions A former CFI of mine did just that. When the time for his checkride came, he hopped in the right seat. The examiner, confused, asked him to take the checkride from the left seat. He obliged, but said he was fairly uncomfortable with some of the maneuvers from that side because it had been a while since he'd flown left seat. My suggestion would be to find out, about 15 flight hours before your checkride, whether or not your examiner will allow it. By this time, you'll have a better idea of who your examiner would be. Hope that helps.

November 7th, 2004, 20:31	#4
EatSleepFly Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: ?? Posts: 4,600	Re: CFI Rating Questions [ QUOTE ] 2) Will the DPE allow me to take my comm rating checkride from the right seat? [/ QUOTE ] I think you'll have a hard time finding an examiner to agree to it, and in my opinion, rightfully so. None around where I instructed would do it. The Commercial and CFI checkrides are a lot alike, but they are also distinctly different. On your commercial checkride, you are demonstrating that you are capable of flying an airplane for hire. On your CFI checkride, you are demonstrating your ability to teach, which is normally done from the right seat, so you take the ride from there. My suggestion would be to do a few flights from the right seat during your commercial training to get familiar, but prepare for your checkride in the left seat. Then spend a few hours brushing up in the right again, and it should be an easy transition. Good luck!

November 7th, 2004, 20:34	#5
PhotoPilot Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 902	Re: CFI Rating Questions Learning to fly right seat isn't hard. Takes maybe 3 or 4 hours, max. The plane flies exactly the same, you just have to use the opposite hand for throttle and yoke/stick. The hardest part is getting used to the landing perspective. Most people will land slightly crabbed until they get used to the new visual. Fly from whatever seat you want. If anything, switch it up every couple of flights. You'll need to be proficient on either side, anyway. Whatever you do, don't sweat it. (And you'll get used to the parallax on the instruments from the right seat pretty fast, too.)

November 7th, 2004, 20:36	#6
chris Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Canada Posts: 291	Re: CFI Rating Questions I did the instructor rating from the right seat. It's not too hard of a transition. You just have to teach your hands how to communicate with one another!

November 7th, 2004, 20:42	#7
PhotoPilot Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 902	Re: CFI Rating Questions [ QUOTE ] I did the instructor rating from the right seat. [/ QUOTE ] Well I would hope so!

November 7th, 2004, 20:45	#8
mtsu_av8er Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Utopia Posts: 12,567	Re: CFI Rating Questions [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] 2) Will the DPE allow me to take my comm rating checkride from the right seat? [/ QUOTE ] I think you'll have a hard time finding an examiner to agree to it, and in my opinion, rightfully so. None around where I instructed would do it. The Commercial and CFI checkrides are a lot alike, but they are also distinctly different. On your commercial checkride, you are demonstrating that you are capable of flying an airplane for hire. [/ QUOTE ] I don't think that it would be a problem, still. You can fly the plane for hire from the right seat just as well as you can from the left seat. Just because nobody will do it doesn't mean it isn't cool to do. Nobody around here would train me for my CFII as my my initial - except for one guy. He got my money, and even though the examiner was confused, he had no choice but to give me my checkride!

November 7th, 2004, 21:10	#9
EatSleepFly Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: ?? Posts: 4,600	Re: CFI Rating Questions Edit: My bad...I read that as taking the Commercial and CFI ride simultaneously. Disregard anything posted by me!

November 7th, 2004, 21:29	#10
mtsu_av8er Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Utopia Posts: 12,567	Re: CFI Rating Questions [ QUOTE ] Disregard anything posted by me! [/ QUOTE ] I already do that, Marsh.... Kidding....

November 7th, 2004, 23:11	#11
EatSleepFly Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: ?? Posts: 4,600	Re: CFI Rating Questions

November 8th, 2004, 02:48	#12
DrBenny Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: MD Posts: 395	Re: CFI Rating Questions Thanks for the responses, guys. There is at least one DPE around these parts who will give comm checkrides while I am in the right seat and he is in the left.

November 8th, 2004, 16:02	#13
BuckTurgidson Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 69	Re: CFI Rating Questions [ QUOTE ] Thanks for the responses, guys. There is at least one DPE around these parts who will give comm checkrides while I am in the right seat and he is in the left. [/ QUOTE ] As long as you are both not in the right seat.

November 8th, 2004, 19:34	#14
DrBenny Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: MD Posts: 395	Re: CFI Rating Questions [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Thanks for the responses, guys. There is at least one DPE around these parts who will give comm checkrides while I am in the right seat and he is in the left. [/ QUOTE ] As long as you are both not in the right seat. [/ QUOTE ] That would depend who she is, I guess!

November 8th, 2004, 21:32	#15
ananoman Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 916	Re: CFI Rating Questions I really don't see that big of an advantage to doing this. It is not that hard to fly from the right seat and the transition will not take that long. You will have to practice doing and teaching the maneuvers during your CFI checkride prep anyway, so I don't see much of a savings here. As for taking the test the same day, this is a possibility. It is up to you. I would rather just study for one at a time. They don't give a volume discount. When you take your commercial you should probably also take your AGI written. It does not hurt to have this. It is true that with a CFI you do not really nead the AGI to teach ground school, but the Ground Instructor ratings don't expire either. The AGI and IGI are the cheapest and easiest 'ratings' you can acquire, so you mind as well get them.

November 8th, 2004, 21:55	#16
DrBenny Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: MD Posts: 395	Re: CFI Rating Questions Good points.

November 9th, 2004, 10:03	#17
Dazzler Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 936	Re: CFI Rating Questions [ QUOTE ] When you take your commercial you should probably also take your AGI written. It does not hurt to have this. It is true that with a CFI you do not really nead the AGI to teach ground school, but the Ground Instructor ratings don't expire either. The AGI and IGI are the cheapest and easiest 'ratings' you can acquire, so you mind as well get them. [/ QUOTE ] If you take both the AGI and CFI, don't you have to sit the same written test twice? (and pay twice also!) (i.e. similar to getting your instrument rating and CFII - you have to take the same written test twice)

November 9th, 2004, 21:03	#18
EatSleepFly Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: ?? Posts: 4,600	Re: CFI Rating Questions Yeah, but they are seperate writtens/ratings. The AGI/IGI are the easiest "ratings" to get. If you are a CFI, the only way you'd really need it is if you ever want to get your Gold Seal (no biggie if you don't), plus they take up space on the 'ol resume.

November 9th, 2004, 21:38	#19
aviategw Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Atlanta Posts: 268	Re: CFI Rating Questions Not entirely true that the ground instructor ratings don't expire. 61.217 Recent experience requirements. Kinda easy to maintain 'currency', tho. Resume' fodder. That's all.

November 9th, 2004, 21:51	#20
EatSleepFly Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: ?? Posts: 4,600	Re: CFI Rating Questions Thats only if you are actually excercising the priviliges of it, the rating itself does not expire. Plus, if you are a CFI as well, you're never really using the priviliges of a ground instructor certificate.

November 9th, 2004, 22:12	#21
mtsu_av8er Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Utopia Posts: 12,567	Re: CFI Rating Questions [ QUOTE ] Plus, if you are a CFI as well, you're never really using the priviliges of a ground instructor certificate. [/ QUOTE ] Hmmm...could they prove that?

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