Your school's 'No Show' Policy

cargopusher · August 3rd, 2004, 18:40

For the second time in two weeks my CFI husband spent time waiting for people who wanted to come in for a plane ride then didn't show up - does your school have a policy in place - these are not students. Does anyone charge a no-show fee?? Thanks in advance-

crashmbern · August 3rd, 2004, 19:09

well goin to embry riddle may be a little stict, its $100 for the first, $250 for the second no show, and kicked out of the flight course for the third no show

RiddlePilot · August 3rd, 2004, 19:52

And I've known people to do all 3.

gomntwins · August 3rd, 2004, 19:55

The typical no show policy I've seen at FBO's has been letting it slide the first time, and the second time charging for 1 hour of instructor time and 1 hour of airplane time.

viper548 · August 3rd, 2004, 21:29

If it's an intro flight we just let it go...If you tried to charge them, they'd take their business to another FBO. Students usually get a freebie or two then they have to pay.

Ralgha · August 3rd, 2004, 23:02

Intros are let slide, students are charged for half the time they had scheduled.

GregCollins2 · August 4th, 2004, 05:44

We let it slide several times too. If we start agressively charging them, we lose the business altogether.

EatSleepFly · August 4th, 2004, 08:29

[ QUOTE ]
For the second time in two weeks my CFI husband spent time waiting for people who wanted to come in for a plane ride then didn't show up - does your school have a policy in place - these are not students. Does anyone charge a no-show fee?? Thanks in advance-

[/ QUOTE ]

Not sure what the policy is on rides, but if a student fails to show, or cancels after his scheduled time, its up to the instructor whether they get charged a no-show. Hourly instructor rate for as many hours as they scheduled...instructor gets paid just as if the student spent that amount of time with them.

Personally, I'm ruthless...they ALL get no-shows (unless theres some kind of emergency). If they schedule me and don't show up, they're wasting time I could've spent with another student. No reason I shouldn't get paid for that. Last Saturday I billed 4 hours on no-shows fees alone. How hard is it to make a phone call?? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

Sorry, I know you were asking about rides, and I went off on a tangent about students. I guess rides he'd have to just let slide. There's not much you can to do charge someone who never shows up, unless you make them pay at the time of scheduling.

Icelandair · August 4th, 2004, 13:07

Wow UND is lax compared to some of these other guys. Its just $35 for the student not to show up. At least the instructor gets an hour pay if he initiates the no show. I've no showed a few students, usually if they don't bother to call with a decent excuse. If they have a reason i try to save them cash in the end.

pilot602 · August 4th, 2004, 14:24

I think all CFIs should be this way. Laywers don't cut their clients any slack. Doctor sure as hell don't so why is it when it comes to flying everyone expects to get off "free." I say charge 'em for the hours they were scheduled ... again this isn't about rides but ...

If you lose their business chances are they'd be the type to stiff you in some other way in the end.

I fully plan on charging ALL no shows on the first time (unless of course they call me ... then it's not as big of a deal unless they call me a 1/2-hour after their lesson was to start ...)

cargopusher · August 4th, 2004, 20:17

Thanks for the input - I will pass that along. He said they do give the students a break the first or second time, but the chronic ones get billed for it. Guess you do just have to put up w/ the ride no-shows (these were call-in's)-- you would like to be treated like a professional though!

JHines · August 4th, 2004, 23:38

[ QUOTE ]
I think all CFIs should be this way. Laywers don't cut their clients any slack. Doctor sure as hell don't so why is it when it comes to flying everyone expects to get off "free." I say charge 'em for the hours they were scheduled ... again this isn't about rides but ...

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm a lawyer and I sure as hell can't get by charging people my hourly rate for time that I am - not - working for them.

mtsu_av8er · August 4th, 2004, 23:58

[ QUOTE ]
I'm a lawyer and I sure as hell can't get by charging people my hourly rate for time that I am - not - working for them.

[/ QUOTE ]

(pssttt....these guys are just mad....)

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

I've never had a doctor charge me for a missed appointment.

EatSleepFly · August 5th, 2004, 00:15

[ QUOTE ]
I've never had a doctor charge me for a missed appointment.

[/ QUOTE ]

No? I have.

Maybe I'm an ass, but I tell my students ahead of time that they have 15 min. after their scheduled show time to call and cancel, or they get charged (unless there's extenuating circumstances). If they show up more than 15 min. late without letting me know first, I tack on the appropriate amount of ground time. Its only fair. I have little tolerance for wasted time. I'm paid crappy enough as it is, I don't need to go losing money because of some punk ass who is too hung over from his first college party to call in and cancel his flight. Sorry...I refuse to let people walk all over me.

mtsu_av8er · August 5th, 2004, 00:36

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I've never had a doctor charge me for a missed appointment.

[/ QUOTE ]

No? I have. Sorry...I refuse to let people walk all over me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey...I feel you!!!

I've always told my flight instructors that they work for me, and I'm the boss. If I schedule from 3 to 5 o'clock, they're going to geet paid for that time. I see to it. If I decide to roll in there at 4:45, I'll pay them for 2 hours.

That being said, no flight instructor has ever "put me in my place" with regard to that stuff. Put me in place about flying, but not about my coming late. I'll pay your punk a$$...shut up.

I had one instructor named Victoria that tried to go high and to the right when I called her Vickie. "Don't ever let me here you call me that again...it's not my name". [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

I never called her again at all.... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

I digress....

I think it's a fine line. If you're over zealous with your no-show policy, you'll push customers away. If you're not zealous enough, you'll be taken advantage of.

gomntwins · August 5th, 2004, 00:56

One unfortunate difference between flight instructors and other professionals, like the doctors and lawyers that have been names here, is the income. A flight instructors ability to pay for essentials, like food and rent, might come down to a few hours more of billable flight time per month, whereas, most other professional are either guaranteed so many hours a month, or if they are not guaranteed hours, make a lot more per hour, like a lawyer. It's not necessarily fair to charge no shows, but then again, it's hard to say it's fair when a professional who makes six figures stands up a CFI who's making 10 dollars an hour without the decency of a 10 second phone call.

Cosmo1999 · August 5th, 2004, 01:08

I always charged straight up the entire block time they had me scheduled. I think I was tough but fair on the policy. I never lost a student due to it

jtrain609 · August 5th, 2004, 08:21

Most doctors offices I've been to charge at least a $25 no show fee. That's for the doctor to usually see me for what? 10 minutes if that? No different for instructors.

Bandit_Driver · August 5th, 2004, 09:39

I always charged a 1/2 to 1 hour of instruction if the person was a no call no show. If they called in enough time for me to rebook I let them slide. As far as intro flight the 1st no show was free...If they rebooked it was cash upfront.

ready2fly · August 6th, 2004, 11:12

One of our instructors bills for the time that a student is scheduled/is there - period.

This includes time for the pre-flight brief, the time when the student is pre-flighting the aircraft, the flight time, and all time after the flight up to and through the end of the post-flight briefing.

If a student is scheduled for 2 hours and he/she is there 2 hours, they pay for 2 hours of instructor time. If they are there for 1.5 (if the lesson is shorter than planned), they pay for 1.5.

ALL the other instructors there talk poorly about him behind his back, but none are man enough to say anything to him one on one (he's also the Chief Pilot).

Personally, I have a wife and soon-to-be child to support... a mortgage... insurance.... school loan payments.... utilities.... etc. I am seriously contemplating charging in the same manner.

I don't think it's unacceptable to be paid for the time in which you are scheduled to be with a student.

But, that's just me. Your mileage may vary.

R2F

pilot602 · August 6th, 2004, 12:14

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think all CFIs should be this way. Laywers don't cut their clients any slack. Doctor sure as hell don't so why is it when it comes to flying everyone expects to get off "free." I say charge 'em for the hours they were scheduled ... again this isn't about rides but ...

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm a lawyer and I sure as hell can't get by charging people my hourly rate for time that I am - not - working for them.

[/ QUOTE ]

How many times do you - not - charge for a phone call, typing a letter, "records organization" (my boss got nicked for that, actually), etc. that other business do not specifically charge for?

It's simple don't want to be charged? SHOW UP or CALL. Can't get no simpler than that! (Yeah the grammar is bad on purpose.)

Ralgha · August 6th, 2004, 13:17

[ QUOTE ]
One of our instructors bills for the time that a student is scheduled/is there - period.

This includes time for the pre-flight brief, the time when the student is pre-flighting the aircraft, the flight time, and all time after the flight up to and through the end of the post-flight briefing.

If a student is scheduled for 2 hours and he/she is there 2 hours, they pay for 2 hours of instructor time. If they are there for 1.5 (if the lesson is shorter than planned), they pay for 1.5.

ALL the other instructors there talk poorly about him behind his back, but none are man enough to say anything to him one on one (he's also the Chief Pilot).

Personally, I have a wife and soon-to-be child to support... a mortgage... insurance.... school loan payments.... utilities.... etc. I am seriously contemplating charging in the same manner.

I don't think it's unacceptable to be paid for the time in which you are scheduled to be with a student.

But, that's just me. Your mileage may vary.

R2F

[/ QUOTE ]

We all charge like that at our school. Nobody has complained about it, a few questions when we switched over sure, but after explaining why, all the students were fine with it. It's entirely fair, and CFIs who don't think so are selling themselves short.

PFactor · August 8th, 2004, 12:25

If you book a 2 hours slot for a lesson at my school, we will typically let you slide a few times, if however you are cronically missing lessons, as well as not calling to let us know, we will charge you for the instructor time AND 2 hours (or whatever you booked) for the aircraft. If this policy makes you go elsewhere, GOOD! We don't need you tying up the schedule and no-showing anyway.

Doug Taylor · August 8th, 2004, 14:08

I charged for 'no shows' primarily because when a student didn't show up, that was usually a slot that another student wanted, but I wasn't available for.

If you schedule a dentists appointment and don't show up, you're going to get charged a fee.

Shouldn't be any different for the professional services of a CFI.

viper548 · August 8th, 2004, 15:34

I was at an FBO paying my bill when they got a call from a student on a solo x-c. He decided to eat lunch and was already one hour late when he called to say he was gonna be another hour late (one hell of a lunch I guess). Of course the plane was booked and the next student had already been waiting there for an hour, so his lesson had to cancel because the instructor was booked the rest of the day. The guy behind the desk chewed out the guy on the X-C and told him to enjoy his lunch and find a new flight school (it wasn't the first time he'd done this). They were also gonna charge him the instructor's fee for the flight he missed because the student had the plane.

August 3rd, 2004, 18:40	#1
cargopusher Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: WKRP in Cincinnati Posts: 156	Your school\'s \'No Show\' Policy For the second time in two weeks my CFI husband spent time waiting for people who wanted to come in for a plane ride then didn't show up - does your school have a policy in place - these are not students. Does anyone charge a no-show fee?? Thanks in advance-

August 3rd, 2004, 19:09	#2
crashmbern Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Long Island NY Posts: 509	Re: Your school\'s \'No Show\' Policy well goin to embry riddle may be a little stict, its $100 for the first, $250 for the second no show, and kicked out of the flight course for the third no show

August 3rd, 2004, 19:52	#3
RiddlePilot Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Prescott, AZ Posts: 928	Re: Your school\'s \'No Show\' Policy And I've known people to do all 3.

August 3rd, 2004, 19:55	#4
gomntwins Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: South Dakota Posts: 479	Re: Your school\'s \'No Show\' Policy The typical no show policy I've seen at FBO's has been letting it slide the first time, and the second time charging for 1 hour of instructor time and 1 hour of airplane time.

August 3rd, 2004, 21:29	#5
viper548 Senior Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Colorado Springs Posts: 814	Re: Your school\'s \'No Show\' Policy If it's an intro flight we just let it go...If you tried to charge them, they'd take their business to another FBO. Students usually get a freebie or two then they have to pay.

August 3rd, 2004, 23:02	#6
Ralgha Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Fresno, CA Posts: 912	Re: Your school\'s \'No Show\' Policy Intros are let slide, students are charged for half the time they had scheduled.

August 4th, 2004, 05:44	#7
GregCollins2 Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Hendersonville, NC Posts: 284	Re: Your school\'s \'No Show\' Policy We let it slide several times too. If we start agressively charging them, we lose the business altogether.

August 4th, 2004, 08:29	#8
EatSleepFly Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: ?? Posts: 4,600	Re: Your school\'s \'No Show\' Policy [ QUOTE ] For the second time in two weeks my CFI husband spent time waiting for people who wanted to come in for a plane ride then didn't show up - does your school have a policy in place - these are not students. Does anyone charge a no-show fee?? Thanks in advance- [/ QUOTE ] Not sure what the policy is on rides, but if a student fails to show, or cancels after his scheduled time, its up to the instructor whether they get charged a no-show. Hourly instructor rate for as many hours as they scheduled...instructor gets paid just as if the student spent that amount of time with them. Personally, I'm ruthless...they ALL get no-shows (unless theres some kind of emergency). If they schedule me and don't show up, they're wasting time I could've spent with another student. No reason I shouldn't get paid for that. Last Saturday I billed 4 hours on no-shows fees alone. How hard is it to make a phone call?? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img] Sorry, I know you were asking about rides, and I went off on a tangent about students. I guess rides he'd have to just let slide. There's not much you can to do charge someone who never shows up, unless you make them pay at the time of scheduling.

August 4th, 2004, 13:07	#9
Icelandair Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: North Dakota, USA Posts: 247	Re: Your school\'s \'No Show\' Policy Wow UND is lax compared to some of these other guys. Its just $35 for the student not to show up. At least the instructor gets an hour pay if he initiates the no show. I've no showed a few students, usually if they don't bother to call with a decent excuse. If they have a reason i try to save them cash in the end.

August 4th, 2004, 14:24	#10
pilot602 Old Skool Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: who haa Posts: 3,750	Re: Your school\'s \'No Show\' Policy I think all CFIs should be this way. Laywers don't cut their clients any slack. Doctor sure as hell don't so why is it when it comes to flying everyone expects to get off "free." I say charge 'em for the hours they were scheduled ... again this isn't about rides but ... If you lose their business chances are they'd be the type to stiff you in some other way in the end. I fully plan on charging ALL no shows on the first time (unless of course they call me ... then it's not as big of a deal unless they call me a 1/2-hour after their lesson was to start ...)

August 4th, 2004, 20:17	#11
cargopusher Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: WKRP in Cincinnati Posts: 156	Re: Your school\'s \'No Show\' Policy Thanks for the input - I will pass that along. He said they do give the students a break the first or second time, but the chronic ones get billed for it. Guess you do just have to put up w/ the ride no-shows (these were call-in's)-- you would like to be treated like a professional though!

August 4th, 2004, 23:38	#12
JHines Junior Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: SC Posts: 292	Re: Your school\'s \'No Show\' Policy [ QUOTE ] I think all CFIs should be this way. Laywers don't cut their clients any slack. Doctor sure as hell don't so why is it when it comes to flying everyone expects to get off "free." I say charge 'em for the hours they were scheduled ... again this isn't about rides but ... [/ QUOTE ] I'm a lawyer and I sure as hell can't get by charging people my hourly rate for time that I am - not - working for them.

August 4th, 2004, 23:58	#13
mtsu_av8er Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Utopia Posts: 12,505	Re: Your school\'s \'No Show\' Policy [ QUOTE ] I'm a lawyer and I sure as hell can't get by charging people my hourly rate for time that I am - not - working for them. [/ QUOTE ] (pssttt....these guys are just mad....) [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] I've never had a doctor charge me for a missed appointment.

August 5th, 2004, 00:15	#14
EatSleepFly Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: ?? Posts: 4,600	Re: Your school\'s \'No Show\' Policy [ QUOTE ] I've never had a doctor charge me for a missed appointment. [/ QUOTE ] No? I have. Maybe I'm an ass, but I tell my students ahead of time that they have 15 min. after their scheduled show time to call and cancel, or they get charged (unless there's extenuating circumstances). If they show up more than 15 min. late without letting me know first, I tack on the appropriate amount of ground time. Its only fair. I have little tolerance for wasted time. I'm paid crappy enough as it is, I don't need to go losing money because of some punk ass who is too hung over from his first college party to call in and cancel his flight. Sorry...I refuse to let people walk all over me.

August 5th, 2004, 00:36	#15
mtsu_av8er Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Utopia Posts: 12,505	Re: Your school\'s \'No Show\' Policy [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I've never had a doctor charge me for a missed appointment. [/ QUOTE ] No? I have. Sorry...I refuse to let people walk all over me. [/ QUOTE ] Hey...I feel you!!! I've always told my flight instructors that they work for me, and I'm the boss. If I schedule from 3 to 5 o'clock, they're going to geet paid for that time. I see to it. If I decide to roll in there at 4:45, I'll pay them for 2 hours. That being said, no flight instructor has ever "put me in my place" with regard to that stuff. Put me in place about flying, but not about my coming late. I'll pay your punk a$$...shut up. I had one instructor named Victoria that tried to go high and to the right when I called her Vickie. "Don't ever let me here you call me that again...it's not my name". [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img] I never called her again at all.... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] I digress.... I think it's a fine line. If you're over zealous with your no-show policy, you'll push customers away. If you're not zealous enough, you'll be taken advantage of.

August 5th, 2004, 00:56	#16
gomntwins Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: South Dakota Posts: 479	Re: Your school\'s \'No Show\' Policy One unfortunate difference between flight instructors and other professionals, like the doctors and lawyers that have been names here, is the income. A flight instructors ability to pay for essentials, like food and rent, might come down to a few hours more of billable flight time per month, whereas, most other professional are either guaranteed so many hours a month, or if they are not guaranteed hours, make a lot more per hour, like a lawyer. It's not necessarily fair to charge no shows, but then again, it's hard to say it's fair when a professional who makes six figures stands up a CFI who's making 10 dollars an hour without the decency of a 10 second phone call.

August 5th, 2004, 01:08	#17
Cosmo1999 Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 247	Re: Your school\'s \'No Show\' Policy I always charged straight up the entire block time they had me scheduled. I think I was tough but fair on the policy. I never lost a student due to it

August 5th, 2004, 08:21	#18
jtrain609 Old Skool Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Park City, UT Posts: 12,322	Re: Your school\'s \'No Show\' Policy Most doctors offices I've been to charge at least a $25 no show fee. That's for the doctor to usually see me for what? 10 minutes if that? No different for instructors.

August 5th, 2004, 09:39	#19
Bandit_Driver Old Skool Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: DTW Posts: 1,757	Re: Your school\'s \'No Show\' Policy I always charged a 1/2 to 1 hour of instruction if the person was a no call no show. If they called in enough time for me to rebook I let them slide. As far as intro flight the 1st no show was free...If they rebooked it was cash upfront.

August 6th, 2004, 11:12	#20
ready2fly Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: DFW Posts: 7,143	Re: Your school\'s \'No Show\' Policy One of our instructors bills for the time that a student is scheduled/is there - period. This includes time for the pre-flight brief, the time when the student is pre-flighting the aircraft, the flight time, and all time after the flight up to and through the end of the post-flight briefing. If a student is scheduled for 2 hours and he/she is there 2 hours, they pay for 2 hours of instructor time. If they are there for 1.5 (if the lesson is shorter than planned), they pay for 1.5. ALL the other instructors there talk poorly about him behind his back, but none are man enough to say anything to him one on one (he's also the Chief Pilot). Personally, I have a wife and soon-to-be child to support... a mortgage... insurance.... school loan payments.... utilities.... etc. I am seriously contemplating charging in the same manner. I don't think it's unacceptable to be paid for the time in which you are scheduled to be with a student. But, that's just me. Your mileage may vary. R2F

August 6th, 2004, 12:14	#21
pilot602 Old Skool Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: who haa Posts: 3,750	Re: Your school\'s \'No Show\' Policy [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I think all CFIs should be this way. Laywers don't cut their clients any slack. Doctor sure as hell don't so why is it when it comes to flying everyone expects to get off "free." I say charge 'em for the hours they were scheduled ... again this isn't about rides but ... [/ QUOTE ] I'm a lawyer and I sure as hell can't get by charging people my hourly rate for time that I am - not - working for them. [/ QUOTE ] How many times do you - not - charge for a phone call, typing a letter, "records organization" (my boss got nicked for that, actually), etc. that other business do not specifically charge for? It's simple don't want to be charged? SHOW UP or CALL. Can't get no simpler than that! (Yeah the grammar is bad on purpose.)

August 6th, 2004, 13:17	#22
Ralgha Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Fresno, CA Posts: 912	Re: Your school\'s \'No Show\' Policy [ QUOTE ] One of our instructors bills for the time that a student is scheduled/is there - period. This includes time for the pre-flight brief, the time when the student is pre-flighting the aircraft, the flight time, and all time after the flight up to and through the end of the post-flight briefing. If a student is scheduled for 2 hours and he/she is there 2 hours, they pay for 2 hours of instructor time. If they are there for 1.5 (if the lesson is shorter than planned), they pay for 1.5. ALL the other instructors there talk poorly about him behind his back, but none are man enough to say anything to him one on one (he's also the Chief Pilot). Personally, I have a wife and soon-to-be child to support... a mortgage... insurance.... school loan payments.... utilities.... etc. I am seriously contemplating charging in the same manner. I don't think it's unacceptable to be paid for the time in which you are scheduled to be with a student. But, that's just me. Your mileage may vary. R2F [/ QUOTE ] We all charge like that at our school. Nobody has complained about it, a few questions when we switched over sure, but after explaining why, all the students were fine with it. It's entirely fair, and CFIs who don't think so are selling themselves short.

August 8th, 2004, 12:25	#23
PFactor Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 135	Re: Your school\'s \'No Show\' Policy If you book a 2 hours slot for a lesson at my school, we will typically let you slide a few times, if however you are cronically missing lessons, as well as not calling to let us know, we will charge you for the instructor time AND 2 hours (or whatever you booked) for the aircraft. If this policy makes you go elsewhere, GOOD! We don't need you tying up the schedule and no-showing anyway.

August 8th, 2004, 14:08	#24
Doug Taylor Agent Smith Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: KSDL Posts: 40,589 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Your school\'s \'No Show\' Policy I charged for 'no shows' primarily because when a student didn't show up, that was usually a slot that another student wanted, but I wasn't available for. If you schedule a dentists appointment and don't show up, you're going to get charged a fee. Shouldn't be any different for the professional services of a CFI.

August 8th, 2004, 15:34	#25
viper548 Senior Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Colorado Springs Posts: 814	Re: Your school\'s \'No Show\' Policy I was at an FBO paying my bill when they got a call from a student on a solo x-c. He decided to eat lunch and was already one hour late when he called to say he was gonna be another hour late (one hell of a lunch I guess). Of course the plane was booked and the next student had already been waiting there for an hour, so his lesson had to cancel because the instructor was booked the rest of the day. The guy behind the desk chewed out the guy on the X-C and told him to enjoy his lunch and find a new flight school (it wasn't the first time he'd done this). They were also gonna charge him the instructor's fee for the flight he missed because the student had the plane.

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