CFI Initial

averyrm · August 2nd, 2004, 23:21

Well, I don't know if it's good or bad news, but in my area, it's tough to find an instructor who can teach a CFI because all the older CFI's are moving up to the airlines.

I've had to switch FBO's twice now. At some places, the most experienced CFI's have been instructing for two months.

Good news for the industry, bad news for me (at least for now). . .

minds_warped · August 3rd, 2004, 00:30

Same thing happened to me. Luckily my instructor didn't leave for a regional until after my CFI initial checkride. But, you're right; there are not many good qualified CFI's out there that can teach a CFI student. There is a lot of ground involved in doing the CFI; a lot of it is on you to study your aaassss off. Make your own CFI binder and index the lesson plans, FOI's, systems, weather, aerodynamics, etc. The examiner will let you use all of it for the oral. No matter what anyone says on this forum, write your own lesson plans.

aviategw · August 9th, 2004, 21:06

I did some of my own lesson plans, used some from the book available from Spotty's. I made damn sure I knew the lesson assigned to me for the checkride, though.

SnowHo · August 16th, 2004, 21:25

Good news for the industry, bad news for me (at least for now). . .

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey I have been instructing for 4 months myself and I have a CFI student. I think the student will do real well because I am fairly new and remember exactly what the examiner wanted.

I will climb off my horse now. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bandit.gif[/img]

stuckingfk · August 16th, 2004, 21:55

[ QUOTE ]
Good news for the industry, bad news for me (at least for now). . .

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey I have been instructing for 4 months myself and I have a CFI student. I think the student will do real well because I am fairly new and remember exactly what the examiner wanted.

I will climb off my horse now. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bandit.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

What kind of CFI student? Is it an initial one? Well I can't remember where it is at in the FAR's but have you got 200 hours dual in the last 4 months? Or was it 200 hours and 24 months? I am confused.

I am not trying to put you on the spot, just wondering if my interpretation of the reg is correct.

cime_sp · August 16th, 2004, 22:16

If it is part 61 you need to have had your CFI certificate for at least 24 months and 200 dual...part 141 is 400 dual I believe

E_Dawg · August 16th, 2004, 22:35

141 I think it's just that you need 5 graduates of the course

FlyboyZR1 · August 17th, 2004, 13:50

[ QUOTE ]
If it is part 61 you need to have had your CFI certificate for at least 24 months and 200 dual...part 141 is 400 dual I believe

[/ QUOTE ]

The instructor that signs off an initial CFI applicant must have the 24 months/200 dual given, ... but any CFI can give the training to a CFI student.

MidlifeFlyer · August 17th, 2004, 17:22

[ QUOTE ]
The instructor that signs off an initial CFI applicant must have the 24 months/200 dual given, ... but any CFI can give the training to a CFI student.

[/ QUOTE ]It means a little more than that.

The regulation says

==============================
a flight instructor who provides training to an initial applicant for a flight instructor certificate must... [have certain "Senior CFI" qualifications]
==============================

not "endorses" not "signs off for a practical test, " but simply "provides training"

In practice that doesn't necessarily mean that a non-senior CFI can't be involved. But it does mean that when 61.187, for example, says that "A person who is applying for a flight instructor certificate must receive and log flight and ground training from an authorized instructor on the areas of operation listed in this section..." the "authorized instructor" is a Senior CFI and at least one log entry for each area of operation must be endorsed by a senior CFI.

FlyboyZR1 · August 17th, 2004, 19:58

Ahhh very good to know.

One flight school here will have you do the CFI gound/flight training with any CFI (senior or not), ... and then a review WITH a senior CFI who endorses the applicant for the ride.

Thanks for the clarification.

viper548 · August 17th, 2004, 20:46

I just got my first CFI initial student. After not completing the assignment I gave him, he asked if I could let him take responsibility for his own ground training and not do any more........UM....NO!!!

I'm going to have him do ground lessons with a couple other CFI's, since he seems to think it's gonna take a long time doing the ground instruction with me and have them convince the CFI stud he is nowhere near prepared for the checkride.

MidlifeFlyer · August 17th, 2004, 22:45

[ QUOTE ]
One flight school here will have you do the CFI ground/flight training with any CFI (senior or not), ... and then a review WITH a senior CFI who endorses the applicant for the ride.

[/ QUOTE ] For context, think in terms of what happens when a solo student's CFI leaves. A new CFI takes over and, at the very least, has the student demonstrate all of the pre-solo tasks so that the CFI can comply with the requirement that "A flight instructor may not endorse a...Student pilot's certificate or logbook for solo flight privileges, unless that flight instructor has ... - Given that student the flight training required for solo flight privileges required by this part" [61.195(d)]

August 2nd, 2004, 23:21	#1
averyrm Old Skool Join Date: May 2002 Location: LCK Posts: 1,648	CFI Initial Well, I don't know if it's good or bad news, but in my area, it's tough to find an instructor who can teach a CFI because all the older CFI's are moving up to the airlines. I've had to switch FBO's twice now. At some places, the most experienced CFI's have been instructing for two months. Good news for the industry, bad news for me (at least for now). . .

August 3rd, 2004, 00:30	#2
minds_warped Newbie Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 28	Re: CFI Initial Same thing happened to me. Luckily my instructor didn't leave for a regional until after my CFI initial checkride. But, you're right; there are not many good qualified CFI's out there that can teach a CFI student. There is a lot of ground involved in doing the CFI; a lot of it is on you to study your aaassss off. Make your own CFI binder and index the lesson plans, FOI's, systems, weather, aerodynamics, etc. The examiner will let you use all of it for the oral. No matter what anyone says on this forum, write your own lesson plans.

August 9th, 2004, 21:06	#3
aviategw Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Atlanta Posts: 268	Re: CFI Initial I did some of my own lesson plans, used some from the book available from Spotty's. I made damn sure I knew the lesson assigned to me for the checkride, though.

August 16th, 2004, 21:25	#4
SnowHo Newbie Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Prescott, AZ Posts: 13	Re: CFI Initial Good news for the industry, bad news for me (at least for now). . . [/ QUOTE ] Hey I have been instructing for 4 months myself and I have a CFI student. I think the student will do real well because I am fairly new and remember exactly what the examiner wanted. I will climb off my horse now. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bandit.gif[/img]

August 16th, 2004, 21:55	#5
stuckingfk Old Skool Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: El Forko Grande Posts: 2,578	Re: CFI Initial [ QUOTE ] Good news for the industry, bad news for me (at least for now). . . [/ QUOTE ] Hey I have been instructing for 4 months myself and I have a CFI student. I think the student will do real well because I am fairly new and remember exactly what the examiner wanted. I will climb off my horse now. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bandit.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] What kind of CFI student? Is it an initial one? Well I can't remember where it is at in the FAR's but have you got 200 hours dual in the last 4 months? Or was it 200 hours and 24 months? I am confused. I am not trying to put you on the spot, just wondering if my interpretation of the reg is correct.

August 16th, 2004, 22:16	#6
cime_sp Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: ATL Posts: 781	Re: CFI Initial If it is part 61 you need to have had your CFI certificate for at least 24 months and 200 dual...part 141 is 400 dual I believe

August 16th, 2004, 22:35	#7
E_Dawg Moderator Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: chicago Posts: 4,170	Re: CFI Initial 141 I think it's just that you need 5 graduates of the course

August 17th, 2004, 13:50	#8
FlyboyZR1 Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: MN Posts: 97	Re: CFI Initial [ QUOTE ] If it is part 61 you need to have had your CFI certificate for at least 24 months and 200 dual...part 141 is 400 dual I believe [/ QUOTE ] The instructor that signs off an initial CFI applicant must have the 24 months/200 dual given, ... but any CFI can give the training to a CFI student.

August 17th, 2004, 17:22	#9
MidlifeFlyer Old Skool Join Date: May 2003 Location: Denver Colorado Posts: 2,976	Re: CFI Initial [ QUOTE ] The instructor that signs off an initial CFI applicant must have the 24 months/200 dual given, ... but any CFI can give the training to a CFI student. [/ QUOTE ]It means a little more than that. The regulation says ============================== a flight instructor who provides training to an initial applicant for a flight instructor certificate must... [have certain "Senior CFI" qualifications] ============================== not "endorses" not "signs off for a practical test, " but simply "provides training" In practice that doesn't necessarily mean that a non-senior CFI can't be involved. But it does mean that when 61.187, for example, says that "A person who is applying for a flight instructor certificate must receive and log flight and ground training from an authorized instructor on the areas of operation listed in this section..." the "authorized instructor" is a Senior CFI and at least one log entry for each area of operation must be endorsed by a senior CFI.

August 17th, 2004, 19:58	#10
FlyboyZR1 Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: MN Posts: 97	Re: CFI Initial Ahhh very good to know. One flight school here will have you do the CFI gound/flight training with any CFI (senior or not), ... and then a review WITH a senior CFI who endorses the applicant for the ride. Thanks for the clarification.

August 17th, 2004, 20:46	#11
viper548 Senior Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Colorado Springs Posts: 814	Re: CFI Initial I just got my first CFI initial student. After not completing the assignment I gave him, he asked if I could let him take responsibility for his own ground training and not do any more........UM....NO!!! I'm going to have him do ground lessons with a couple other CFI's, since he seems to think it's gonna take a long time doing the ground instruction with me and have them convince the CFI stud he is nowhere near prepared for the checkride.

August 17th, 2004, 22:45	#12
MidlifeFlyer Old Skool Join Date: May 2003 Location: Denver Colorado Posts: 2,976	Re: CFI Initial [ QUOTE ] One flight school here will have you do the CFI ground/flight training with any CFI (senior or not), ... and then a review WITH a senior CFI who endorses the applicant for the ride. [/ QUOTE ] For context, think in terms of what happens when a solo student's CFI leaves. A new CFI takes over and, at the very least, has the student demonstrate all of the pre-solo tasks so that the CFI can comply with the requirement that "A flight instructor may not endorse a...Student pilot's certificate or logbook for solo flight privileges, unless that flight instructor has ... - Given that student the flight training required for solo flight privileges required by this part" [61.195(d)]

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