Endorsement debate

[Alchemy]

My fellow CFI's and I are at odds over a particular endorsement....

Most logbooks come with a pre-written endorsement that allows the instructor to say they have given pilot John A. Smith additional training over the areas which their knowledge test had shown them to be deficient.

Some instructors claim this endorsement is required for the checkride regardless of weather or not the applicant passes or fails the test.

Others claim it is only required if you're retesting a student who has failed.

Personally, I cannot find a requirement for such an endorsement anywhere in AC 61-65D, except for the endorsement to re-reccomend an applicant for a written test which they have previously failed.

Any opinions?

[RiddlePilot]

"Deficient" in my mind does not mean that the student necessarily failed. If the student passes the knowledge test, but gets anything less than a perfect score, there are areas in which he/she is deficient. If they pass with a score of 100%, great, then there's *probably* no need to add that line to the 60-day endorsement. If they get anything less than 100%, the line should be there.

Anyways, I can only assume that you're referring to the 60-day endorsement for the practical test... That's 61.39(a)(6).

[Pilot Hopeful]

An applicant cannot take a checkride until he/she passes the associated knowledge test. As RiddlePilot noted, “deficient” would apply to any test score other than 100%. If the exam score is perfect, then this endorsement need not be completed. Otherwise, cover the deficient areas with the applicant and then sign the endorsement.

Now, here’s a different question. If a student fails a knowledge test on the first try, but earns a perfect score on the second take, should the instructor sign this endorsement? (The second test results will indicate that the test is a second take.)

[MikeD]

[ QUOTE ]


Now, here’s a different question. If a student fails a knowledge test on the first try, but earns a perfect score on the second take, should the instructor sign this endorsement? (The second test results will indicate that the test is a second take.)

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure. Why not? I'd incorporate some questions in a briefing format the same as I'd do with any other stud, but a pass is a pass.

[MidlifeFlyer]

The endorsement comes out of 61.39(a):
"Has demonstrated satisfactory knowledge of the subject areas in which the applicant was deficient on the airman knowledge test"

Note that it's not a knowledge test endorsement but a =Practical test= endorsement. My personal interpretation is that it has nothing to do with failing the test, just with saying that the applicant has good knowledge of areas he didn't do well in on the test. The the endorsement is essentially saying to the DPE, "Hey, my guy got a 98 on his knowledge test. The question he missed involved interpreting weather information. We went over it and I'm satisfied that he has private pilot level knowledge of weather."

So the endorsement is standard for me, although at least one DPE has told me that it's not necessary. I figure no harm in giving it.