Got a call today

[sidewinder]

This morning sometime a representative from Career Pilot School contacted by about their CFI program for 8595 not including: Taxes, Housing, Checkride fees, written test fees and anything else they would like to add on to get you for everything you are worth. And secondly I was very surprised by the fact that they are so smug about the fact that nobody has ever done an MEI through them with less than 16 hours. That is ridiculous and an extraordinary claim that leads me to believe that the instruction is subpar. I have almost 200 hours in a multi aircraft and only 120 hours in singles and no single complex time. I was given factors such as it is not counter rotating props that make the aircraft they fly so much harder to get used to. Ive talked to many other schools about getting my CFI course done and out of the way and all the other places were more than happy to get the MEI out of the way first for the reasons that I know it to be a good decision. If you do your MEI first that means only one complex checkride and your CFI-A and CFII can be completed in one checkride after that. 16 hours in a multi is alot of flying, you can only do so much, Power on Power off, One engine inop manuvers, slow flight, drag demo, three landings, Single engine landing, short field landing, and a normal landing, Steep turns, and if I remember correctly that is it. Seeing as you can get a mulit private in about 10 hours I think it is safe to say it is not going to take that long to learn everything from the right seat. And using the FSDO doesnt like doing MEI first is a cop out to get more money out of the perspective student, the FSDO shouldnt and DOES NOT care what rating you do first. They are looking at how well you can teach the student and can demonstrate and show and know what mistakes you are making and how to correct those. They realize this isnt Top Gun. I have been to a bunch of flight schools and I have made some mistakes and had the wool pulled over my eyes on occassion but please whoever called me this morning dont think I am going to let it happen again. Not a good way to sell somebody on something when you flat out say you cant do it, youre not good enough to do it, Oh yes and by the way everybody else I have spoken to says 8 hours maximum to do my MEI first and the hard part is getting through the ground training and then the oral. Thanks for reading

[Clocks]

It doesn't take 16 hours to get used to sitting in the right seat. It doesn't take 16 hours to learn to talk while flying a maneuver. It doesn't take 16 hour to learn how to do a drag demo (the only new maneuver for the MEI). It might take 16 hours for you to begin to act and sound like an instructor instead of a commercial pilot trying to recite the last thing they read, that's different for everyone.

You're right the ground stuff and knowledge is the hardest part. But they probably don't get a lot of people coming in with 200 hours of multi, and if you're truly proficient in your flying their one-size-fits-all program might not be right for you.

[sidewinder]

True I may not fit into their one size firs all program but it doesnt have to be nobody can do it in less than sixteen hours and then tell me guys from ATP come there and cant do it and guys from Ari Ben cant do it. Well my thoughts are they probably couldnt do it at those places either especially doing it as an initial, but the whole time it was basically this is the only place and its our way or find somewhere else. So I will find somewhere else and they can have their fun up in Kansas with their course.

[Michael95U]

Sidewinder (I won't use your real name):

You spoke to me personally on the phone. I was not trying to be smug at all. Though both my instructor that spoke to you on Friday and myself felt you were being very critical of us on the phone and now you are critical of us here. It seems to me that the questions you were asking on the phone were phrased in a way to get a response from me so you could post online. Though I digress....

CPS works very closely with the KC FSDO (we have a 100% initial pass rate with them) and they have told me in the past that they don't want to do CFI-I initials and MEI initials. Do I want to make students happy and do MEI and CFI-I initials? Sure! But if the FSDO won't do them (and they have some good reasons and bad reasons), what's the point in trying to send you for an initial MEI? It seemed to me that you didn't want to listen to that fact.

Secondly, it is has been our experience that it takes at LEAST 10-13 hours of prep time in our TWIN COMANCHE's to be ready for the MEI initial checkride if you have ZERO Twin Comanche time. It doesn't matter how much multi time you have in a Duchess or Seminole. A Twin Comanche is not a Duchess or Seminole and takes a little more skill to fly and ultimately to instruct in. That is our experience. On the phone you just didn't want to listen to that aspect and that is fine.

Thirdly, while we are in the business of making money (we are a flight school), I explained that doing the MEI first would not significantly lower the cost of the program as the cost of the Arrow is not much more than our Warrior or Archer. You might save $150-$200. That isn't a significant enough savings to do the MEI as the initial and be on the wrong side of the FSDO.

Clocks is right and I told you this on the phone: you just aren't a good fit for our program. Not everyone can come to CPS and be successful or fit into our CFI program. You have a good amount of experience in multi engine training aircraft. That is great. I would suggest finding a program that utilizes one of those aircraft and a program that works with a FSDO that will do the MEI as the intial CFI checkride.

Bottom-line is this: You don't know me and you don't know our school. I felt you were being difficult on the phone with me and then you come to our forum and bad mouth our program. I am sure Loadmaster141 can comment on the quality of our program as can numerous other people on this board. We will continue to do it our way and be successful doing it. I think a 100% initial pass rate with our FSDO is damn good considering the nation wide initial CFI/MEI/CFII pass rate is 20%.

Michael Siegel

PS: We don't include checkride fees in our program because there are a few different DPE's we can utilize who charge a different rate. We make NO money off of checkrides. Secondly, we don't include housing in the cost because housing is at your discretion. We make NO money from housing. And it is a fact that in the states of Kansas and Missouri, you pay sales tax on aircraft usage. And no, we don't make money off of sales tax. So are there any hidden fees? No.

[Michael95U]

Originally Posted by sidewinder

your CFI-A and CFII can be completed in one checkride after that

That is totally untrue. The CFI-A and CFII are TOTALLY separate checkrides. Can you do the same day? Sure. But it is two oral exams and two flights.

[desertdog71]

Originally Posted by sidewinder

So I will find somewhere else and they can have their fun up in Kansas with their course.

That is exactly what you should do, without getting on the forum and trying to put a negative slant on things because you didn't like the answers you were given.

I am sure their programs are developed to fit almost every person, and not knowing at all what your skill and knowledge level are to begin with, makes the 16 hour number plenty reasonable.

[sidewinder]

You are right I dont know you but you dont know me either.. You never wanted to know how much time I had in other aircraft, if I had ever seen the inside of an Arrow or Warrior just about telling me your price and your program. I get it your a salesman that is what you do, sell your product and get the customer in the door. You dont want to work something out with your program and me that is alright I get the hint.. I am just pursuing my options to see what is out there and have been taken before, I know what I want and I know what to expect. I am oh so sorry that I hurt your feelings on the phone by being difficult when after I explained what I was looking for and you couldnt provide but you continued pushed your program that was going to cost in excess of 10-12k on me. Rather than taking a professional line and saying we cant provide that for you. And if I remember correctly this is an open forum?? I am just stating my opinion on what I expreienced. And 100% pass rate, come on, out of the whole country you have every single person to go through your school pass the hardest checkride they will ever take on the first time?? With the FSDO no less when the national average is like 20 or 30 percent first time passes. I dont want to get into a big thing here but I am just not buying it. Have a good day monday making your calls, stewing over what I have wrote and spending the majority of your day coming up with another well thought out rebuttal. I cant wait to sit back down and read what you have to say.

[Doug Taylor]

I dunno. Considering aviation is a very small world, I think a professional would probably call or talk face to face and sort it out.

Today's internet rant about a potential employer is tomorrow's, "Hey, weren't you that guy on that forum?"

Technique only and your mileage may vary.

[Ian J]

Once again, Michael and CPS are my heros.

Despite their new RJ course tomfoolery, this is lesson #1 in how to deal with an unreasonable customer. Well done!

[wildwezul1]

well I know I am one of those people who passed first time with the FSDO, and I know the pass rate is 100%.

we cant always do things the way we want to do them in this world, sometimes we have to do them the only way they are offered or somewhere there abouts.

And as Doug said, Its a very small world in this aviation community, people remember who said, or did what. Just remember A little common sense and good manners goes along way.

[Michael95U]

Originally Posted by sidewinder

You are right I dont know you but you dont know me either.. You never wanted to know how much time I had in other aircraft, if I had ever seen the inside of an Arrow or Warrior just about telling me your price and your program. I get it your a salesman that is what you do, sell your product and get the customer in the door. You dont want to work something out with your program and me that is alright I get the hint.. I am just pursuing my options to see what is out there and have been taken before, I know what I want and I know what to expect. I am oh so sorry that I hurt your feelings on the phone by being difficult when after I explained what I was looking for and you couldnt provide but you continued pushed your program that was going to cost in excess of 10-12k on me. Rather than taking a professional line and saying we cant provide that for you. And if I remember correctly this is an open forum?? I am just stating my opinion on what I expreienced. And 100% pass rate, come on, out of the whole country you have every single person to go through your school pass the hardest checkride they will ever take on the first time?? With the FSDO no less when the national average is like 20 or 30 percent first time passes. I dont want to get into a big thing here but I am just not buying it. Have a good day monday making your calls, stewing over what I have wrote and spending the majority of your day coming up with another well thought out rebuttal. I cant wait to sit back down and read what you have to say.

Ok. This is ridiculous. You need to realize that this forum is not for this purpose (but at least spell check your response). If you came to the school, went through the program, and had a beef with me, it would be cool. But you had a 5 minute conversation with one of my instructors and a 5 minute conversation with me.

But, because you call it into question, I am going to say this:

CPS has a 100% pass rate with the Kansas City FSDO. In fact, we had a 100% pass rate with every FSDO we have utilized until 2 months ago when my FIRST CFI practical test failure occurred with the Tacoma, Washington FSDO. That's right, we have had ONE initial applicant failure. And the fact is, I would hire that guy in a second as he was one of the best I have ever trained. He just came up short on his 180 Accuracy landing.

Do we teach to a checkride? Heck no. We utilize EVERY inspector at our FSDO and each has their own way of doing things. Each one of them has said the same thing: CPS CFI candidates are the MOST PREPARED they have ever seen. So it seems to me that our students and the FSDO feel that we give superior education when it comes to the CFI.

I will not be stewing over what you wrote considering we are so busy (I have 2 CFI students to work with today) and that makes me the happiest person in the world. I wish you luck in becoming a bit less bitter and hopefully you will find a program that suits your needs. Have a great day!

Michael Siegel
President

[Ian J]

Hey, this is the same guy who posted this:

Originally Posted by sidewinder

This is my first post on JetCareers after looking around for the past couple of years and here is my disclaimer " I am not nor do I ever want to fly a commercial aircraft Part 121 135 91 whatever else there is nor do I think that any of the people who fly them know what it is like in the real world sometimes and someday when you arent memorizing your 121 regs and being coddled by controllers take a look at Part 137 and you will have a new appreciation for the word VAGUE" Now that is out of the way, I have friends who fly 121 and who were instructors and to the best of my knowledge uncontrolled class Gulf Airspace as I like to put it is the Wild West. Do what you want when you want. You want to fly straight in go ahead you want to overfly the field at 500 feet go for it, No radio calls who cares its UNCONTROLLED AIRSPACE Radios are not required. Now when you guys decide to stop flying at FL390 and strap 4000 extra pounds dangerous chemical 5 feet from you and fly 8 feet off the ground avoiding power lines, windmills, tractors, silos, homes, people, animals and the inverted stall and 150 feet then you guys can whine and complain about REGS!!! I realize not much of that applies to you guys who fly at FL 390 actucally none of it maybe you have to dodge the occasional cloud OH NOOOOO tough flying.. Take off and put the Autopilot on and read your AOPA or whatever you have with you. And try to do what I talk about at night sometime and quit whining about right traffic left traffic Im glad they got those punks. They worked just as hard as you did and I imagine everyone has broken a FAR at one time or another so everyone is in just as much jeopardy as losing their certs.

Disclaimer #2 I am not a flight instructor and just because you are does not make you great or does not mean you know it all, you dont, I dont, the FAA does not, The Head Pilot at whatever disfunctional airline does not either. I dont care how many hours you have flying a RJ you cant fly a real plane safely ( and if you want to know why I am here all week )

Thank You For Reading, Criticism is appreciated and any and all complaints will be rebutted with staggering enthusiasm over my theories, you may think you are right and I am out to prove you wrong which most times will happen.

This genius probably won't around long.

[Clocks]

Fan-****ing-tastic.

[WacoFan]

Originally Posted by Ian J

Hey, this is the same guy who posted this:



This genius probably won't around long.

There is a guy on this site named T-cart. He is a former Ag pilot, and in my opinion has provided valuable insights, as well as been very courteous on the Board. Please do not let Sidewinder represent your vision of Ag pilots - look instead to T-cart. Sidewinder is quite obviously a special olympian and for some reason he is very hostile to CPS.

[Ian J]

Originally Posted by WacoFan

There is a guy on this site named T-cart. He is a former Ag pilot, and in my opinion has provided valuable insights, as well as been very courteous on the Board. Please do not let Sidewinder represent your vision of Ag pilots - look instead to T-cart. Sidewinder is quite obviously a special olympian and for some reason he is very hostile to CPS.

Absolutely. No argument there.

[av8or91]

Originally Posted by MichaelCPS

He just came up short on his 180 Accuracy landing.

Maybe a little off topic but if you know your not going to make your spot cant you just go around?

[wildwezul1]

depends on the examiner... the one we use here alot will let you go around once but only once.. I dont know what the Seattle FSDO will let you do.

[Michael95U]

Originally Posted by av8or91

Maybe a little off topic but if you know your not going to make your spot cant you just go around?

Yes. He didn't do that.

[8sm]

Aviation indeed is a small world, and for the most part forgiving. It would do you some good to move on.

Thus far, CPS has been a consist contributor to this community. It appears many members within this forum are pleased with the training and the results CPS offers. A true test of CPS services is the end user results or comments. Any post from current or past students has been 100% positive.

I am certain; their business plan delivers their services with several goals in mind. One, to offer a product that meets their customer’s expectations and needs. Two, to deliver a program, which allows a marginal profit to keep the business running.

Most would agree, with today’s insurance and fuel cost most companies are mindful and working within very slim margins. Most companies in these economic times prefer to work within a proven source of income results. When the judge of your labors acknowledges your program is delivering positive results, it's best not to reinvent the wheel.

Having said that, I too have logged many of life lessons in my 50 years, most free but not always well received.

Good luck with your training, you are certainly farther ahead then most…

[mooneyguy]

Originally Posted by Ian J

Hey, this is the same guy who posted this:
This is my first post on JetCareers after looking around for the past couple of years and here is my disclaimer " I am not nor do I ever want to fly a commercial aircraft Part 121 135 91 whatever else there is nor do I think that any of the people who fly them know what it is like in the real world sometimes and someday when you arent memorizing your 121 regs and being coddled by controllers take a look at Part 137 and you will have a new appreciation for the word VAGUE" Now that is out of the way, I have friends who fly 121 and who were instructors and to the best of my knowledge uncontrolled class Gulf Airspace as I like to put it is the Wild West. Do what you want when you want. You want to fly straight in go ahead you want to overfly the field at 500 feet go for it, No radio calls who cares its UNCONTROLLED AIRSPACE Radios are not required. Now when you guys decide to stop flying at FL390 and strap 4000 extra pounds dangerous chemical 5 feet from you and fly 8 feet off the ground avoiding power lines, windmills, tractors, silos, homes, people, animals and the inverted stall and 150 feet then you guys can whine and complain about REGS!!! I realize not much of that applies to you guys who fly at FL 390 actucally none of it maybe you have to dodge the occasional cloud OH NOOOOO tough flying.. Take off and put the Autopilot on and read your AOPA or whatever you have with you. And try to do what I talk about at night sometime and quit whining about right traffic left traffic Im glad they got those punks. They worked just as hard as you did and I imagine everyone has broken a FAR at one time or another so everyone is in just as much jeopardy as losing their certs.

Disclaimer #2 I am not a flight instructor and just because you are does not make you great or does not mean you know it all, you dont, I dont, the FAA does not, The Head Pilot at whatever disfunctional airline does not either. I dont care how many hours you have flying a RJ you cant fly a real plane safely ( and if you want to know why I am here all week )

Thank You For Reading, Criticism is appreciated and any and all complaints will be rebutted with staggering enthusiasm over my theories, you may think you are right and I am out to prove you wrong which most times will happen.


This genius probably won't around long.

I'm Curious...where is this GULF airspace this guy is talking about? Did John and martha fail me and not teach me everything? Oh and I thought all airports other then Delta Charlie, and Bravo were uncontrolled???

It sounds like this guy is just a wanna be who isnt even a pilot. He does ag? In a Twin? Since all of his time is multi according to him! and no complex time? I thought most ag planes had constant speed props?
Flying inverted in an ag plane...wow...I would think that would be a little messy. Shoot guessen I need to get me sum more edgukatin.

[surreal1221]

Don't feed the troll.

[Clocks]

Originally Posted by av8or91

Maybe a little off topic but if you know your not going to make your spot cant you just go around?

Our FSDO examiner never gave any go-arounds on the power-off 180. Go around = bust.

[av8or91]

Originally Posted by Clocks

Our FSDO examiner never gave any go-arounds on the power-off 180. Go around = bust.

What a jerk examiner. On my commercial stage check I was told I could go around a few times if needed but luckily I made it on my first try. If that happened to me I would give the examiner control and let him show me how he does it then pray that he comes up short or lands longs.

[Michael95U]

This thread is not going to be deleted.

Michael

[Gonzo]

Originally Posted by mooneyguy

It sounds like this guy is just a wanna be who isnt even a pilot. He does ag? In a Twin? Since all of his time is multi according to him! and no complex time? I thought most ag planes had constant speed props?
Flying inverted in an ag plane...wow...I would think that would be a little messy. Shoot guessen I need to get me sum more edgukatin.

I know him and can tell you he is a real pilot.
One of the best stick and rudder pilots I know.
He did some ag-flying.