NATCA ?

[dcatcdude]

I have a question, do you have to sign up to be a part of NATCA when you start working at a facilty, or can you just not have the representation of NATCA?

[surreal1221]

Just the type of person the FAA wants.

I'm not surprised.

Nevertheless, yes - you can decline to be represented by the association.

[ATLTRACON]

Originally Posted by dcatcdude

I have a question, do you have to sign up to be a part of NATCA when you start working at a facilty, or can you just not have the representation of NATCA?

You absolutley do not have to join, it is your choice. But, I will say that, especially in this day and age that NATCA is your best buffer/defense/security/INSURANCE policy. Can I ask why you wouldn't you want to join NATCA? You can privately PM me if you want.

Jon

[dcatcdude]

IM sending a PM to you, please keep it private

[ATC RET 2003]

Union membership is not a condition of employment. However, you will be a member of a bargaining unit of which NATCA is the exclusive representative. So while you don't have to join the Union, you can't exactly opt to not be "represented" by it.

I found it was more to my liking to have a say in how the Union represented me. I found it was even better to actively participate in the operation of the Union.

Feel free to PM me, as well.

[ATLTRACON]

Originally Posted by dcatcdude

IM sending a PM to you, please keep it private

I have serious reservations about keeping it private. Your accusations should be shared with all so that you can be better educated. Because you obviously are not.

[Justin538]

Please post it. Outside of the press releases and "public" announcements or battles, I really have no working knowledge of NATCA and the pros and cons of being associated with them. I have my reservations based off of their public stances but would really like more information.

Some questions I have.

Cost? One of the least important, but would be nice to have a clue.

Benefits - What can the union actually do for you?

Cons - What sort of decisions or powers over your own situation do you give up in return for the membership with the union?

[ATLTRACON]

I would normally have kept DC's post private, but he is so misinformed, as are others, maybe some knowledge will come of it.

I have had family in the FAA for many years, all the way from contoller (it's controller) to SES and beyond. I understand why NATCA is there but I dont agree that they are the best thing for the workforce.
dont get me wrong, they are 2000x's better than PATCO but they only look out for themselves and not things in broad and in the long run.

The FAA didnot want to do what they had to do laughable comment at best. If you know anything about the negotiations, Blakey had the Impasse paperwork already typed up ( a fact that has been admitted in front of Congress) with a date BEFORE the first round of negotiations, but had no choice as it was either keep same pay rate but hire noone, or cut pay and hire people. NATCA did not understand nor care about that.
Natca (NATCA...not Natca) needs a leader or will sit down with the FAA and AGREE on things, not have a hardline bottom edge to everything. Absolutely disagree. FAA asked for 1.9 billion, NATCA agreed, next day FFA asked for more. It's called moving the goalposts. The FAA has moved from a safety business to being in bed with the airlines and caring about "profit". Just look at the BS with Southwest and the fact that FAA inspectors let SW continue to fly with known problems, which Senior upper FAA manglement knew about. But it'll cost their "customers" money so what's with a few dead. Look at the ComAir Lexington crash. Save a buck only have one controller on duty. Absolutely criminal. Read http://www.faafollies.com/ and http://themainbang.typepad.com/ you will see how the FAA thinks and treats their employees. Obviously you have only been in a VERY short time and a still jaded. Don't know what facility you work at but come to A80 some time. Work 10 hour days, 6 days a week MANDATORY - not the FAA PR crap about "they want to work the overtime". In an 8 hour shift last week I was plugged in for 7 + 40 minutes - OUT OF 8 hours. Not training someone else, not doing other duties...WORKING the busiest traffic in the WORLD. Then see how great the FAA behind the curtain. You have NO clue.

Look at flight service without NAATS, those FSS are happier than they have ever been (even though a great portion of the FAA FSS people had the retirements pulled out from under then and taken away?) You need to do some research, better pay, better options in the long run, move of a voice, more opportunites, thats what NATCA needs and they will never get that until they change there attitude and stop thinking just for themselves. This will tell you everything you need to know about the FSS fiasco. I have personally waited on the phone for over 40 minuted for a briefing, only to be hung up on. Lockheed said that ALL calls would be answered within 2 minutes. My briefer, when I did get through, was from AZ and knew NOTHING about the geographic area that I was asking about. Kinda important don't you think?? http://themainbang.typepad.com/blog/...-shoppers.html

sorry for the rant, but until things change I will never be a union member. and appreciate what they try to do, but they do it the wrong way in my opinion. But when you can you will enjoy all of the benefits that the Union has to offer, without paying - mooch. What a deal for you[/quote]

After reading some of your stuff me thinks you are manglement or a wannabe. Also spell check better, it's embarrassing
__________________

[Justin538]

Burn!


Way to go ATLTRACON.

But still, my questions from above still stand. I need a salesman to school me on the union.

[dcatcdude]

As I can see you are just a disgruntled employee.
Why dont you just quit if your so unhappy, or i dont know
GET A MANAGEMENT JOB and CHANGE IT!

[Seggy]

Originally Posted by dcatcdude

As I can see you are just a disgruntled employee.
Why dont you just quit if your so unhappy, or i dont know
GET A MANAGEMENT JOB and CHANGE IT!

[Fox Xray]

Originally Posted by dcatcdude

As I can see you are just a disgruntled employee.
Why dont you just quit if your so unhappy, or i dont know
GET A MANAGEMENT JOB and CHANGE IT!

I'm a NATCA area rep where I work and have been active in NATCA for quite some time. The question of do you have to join has been answered...

I'm curious what exactly is your problem with the union ? Are you in the hiring process ? Did you personally run into an issue with NATCA ? You need to remember that as Gov't employees NATCA is not a union like the steam fitters or even ALPA, we are more of a labor organization, we don't have many of the rights that a full union has.

Much of my daily NATCA rep duties deal with holding management to the same standard that we, controllers, are held to. Unless you walk in our shoes you cannot imagine the amount of responsibility and high standard controllers are held to on a daily basis, and rightfully so. I don't think it should be any other way... but my "superiors" (management) do not hold themselves to the same standard, that is much of what myself and many reps do around the country, we fight for the little guys (and gals) in our facilities when management tries to play games, and they do this often.

[surreal1221]

Originally Posted by dcatcdude

As I can see you are just a disgruntled employee.
Why dont you just quit if your so unhappy, or i dont know
GET A MANAGEMENT JOB and CHANGE IT!

I yi yi. . .

The ignorance of the mass influx of new members is laughable to say the least, and absolutely disgusting in the end.

[dcatcdude]

Originally Posted by Fox Xray

I'm a NATCA area rep where I work and have been active in NATCA for quite some time. The question of do you have to join has been answered...

I'm curious what exactly is your problem with the union ? Are you in the hiring process ? Did you personally run into an issue with NATCA ? You need to remember that as Gov't employees NATCA is not a union like the steam fitters or even ALPA, we are more of a labor organization, we don't have many of the rights that a full union has.

Much of my daily NATCA rep duties deal with holding management to the same standard that we, controllers, are held to. Unless you walk in our shoes you cannot imagine the amount of responsibility and high standard controllers are held to on a daily basis, and rightfully so. I don't think it should be any other way... but my "superiors" (management) do not hold themselves to the same standard, that is much of what myself and many reps do around the country, we fight for the little guys (and gals) in our facilities when management tries to play games, and they do this often.

1st yes i am in the hiring process, and have never had an issue with NATCA, nor anyone from NATCA

2nd. I understand what NATCA does, but I PERSONALLY think that they take the wrong approach to everything. AS I belive MANAGERS do to. its a product of a system thats has been broken for many many years. If it continues this way it will never be fixed.

NATCA and both managers need to learn to compromise and both be on the same level. THATS WHAT IM GETTING AT!

The reason you guys currently are worked so hard is due to the inability of the controller work force trying to understand why there have not been more hiring in previous years. The FAA would of loved to hire more, but was unable to due to congress and the budget. hence why they outsourced AFSS so that they make more room in the budget for hiring. I can guarentee you that they did not want to end up cutting costs, but they had to to avoid you guys working harder than you already due. If you dont understand that you are just flat out iggnorant.

FAA gets more money------hires more people-------trains more people------less stressed and not overworked the workforce is

how hard is it to understand that?

[Seggy]

Originally Posted by dcatcdude

1st off I'm trying to decide to become a controller to fill up my resume.

As a service to everyone involved in aviation can you please do us a favor? Don't become an Air Traffic Controller to 'fill up' your resume.

[surreal1221]

Great. . .this guy thinks it's a part time job.

Absolutely amazing. I hope the FAA gets wind of this guy and just ignores his application.

Sure, I don't want anyone applying right now. But Christ, if you are, be in it for the CAREER - not as a resume builder.

[Seggy]

Interesting dcatcdude. You edited your post after I quoted a comment you made from it about becoming a controller to 'fill your resume'.

Also mentioned you knew someone 'personally' in NATCA but you took that out when you edited this post as well.

[kcarpentier]

I wondered where you pulled that quote from, seggy... I looked at this thread right after you posted it and it was already gone!

Why would anyone take such a stressful job to "fill up a resume"?! Air traffic control is unlike any other job, so what skills would you take from it to another job? The ability to work for someone who hates you????

Some people just give us n00bz a bad name.

[Seggy]

Originally Posted by kcarpentier

Some people just give us n00bz a bad name.

Oh no it is important for everyone to speak up! Most people can easily see the true background of the individual!

Welcome!

[ATLTRACON]

Originally Posted by dcatcdude

1st yes i am in the hiring process, and have never had an issue with NATCA, nor anyone from NATCA

2nd. I understand what NATCA does, but I PERSONALLY think that they take the wrong approach to everything. AS I belive MANAGERS do to. its a product of a system thats has been broken for many many years. If it continues this way it will never be fixed.

NATCA and both managers need to learn to compromise and both be on the same level. THATS WHAT IM GETTING AT!

The reason you guys currently are worked so hard is due to the inability of the controller work force trying to understand why there have not been more hiring in previous years. Once again you are completely ignorant of the facts. If you research this you will see that NATCA, not the FFA, has been saying for at least 7 years that this was going to happen with the retirements. What did the FFA do?? They shut down the Academy...to save money.The FAA would of loved to hire more, Absolute and TOTAL BS The FFA has realized that it is CHEAPER, remember it's about money, to pay OT than it is to hire/train/pay salary and then retirements to more employees. Why bring in more when you can get the same productivity from fewer. Why the same productivity? Because we as controllers will do whatever it takes to get the job done.but was unable to due to congress and the budget. hence why they outsourced AFSS so that they make more room in the budget for hiring. I can guarentee you that they did not want to end up cutting costs, but they had to to avoid you guys working harder than you already due. If you dont understand that you are just flat out iggnorant.

FAA gets more money------hires more people-------trains more people------less stressed and not overworked the workforce is

how hard is it to understand that?

Oh, and to answer your question about why I don't join management. I was asked the same question by one of them not too long ago. They expounded on how much more money I would make, etc. My response was/is, is that my INTEGRITY is worth more than that. Also, if you think by becoming management, you can make a difference, than you sir are a fool. I have seen dozens upon dozens of mediocre controllers join manglement because they were scared to work traffic. I have seen the same amount join manglement saying that, they too, were going to make a difference. Know what happens. They are told what to do by THEIR bosses and if they don't like it they can leave.
Great story by a friend of mine who, for about 3 months, was the Chief of CHA. The FFA wasted the taxpayers money about a year ago on a bunch of motivational posters telling us to "Bring our "A" game, and the Focus. As if we don't already freakin' know this. Problem was that EVERY poster has gross misspellings on them. IE Profesionalism, etc. When he told his bosses that he in fact was not going to put them up they to him, and I quote, "If you do not put them up you will be fired." He tried to explain that EVERY poster was misspelled. They said, "put them up, we are trying to lead by example and show how professional we are." (notice how I spelled professional the second time?) That is the WISDOM we are up against everyday. Idiot remarks and misdoings from people who sprinted off of the Radar floor because they were scared. Now they have the power and will use it to any extent. Sending people home for wrong colored socks...give me a freakin break. I'm here to separate aircraft.

Again I say you will be happy to ride the coat tails of NATCA when they can get you something or you have had a serious Deal and want representation. No wait...the FFA will take care of you. You are "in the hiring process" what in the he!! do you know about our issues. Just from what your "relatives" tell you...probably manglement telling you that those controllers are big nasties. Please do not join our Union. It requires trust/camaraderie/passion/dedication and the ability to do the right thing, while taking care of our own and making sure the flying public is protected from GROSS MISMANAGEMENT. Maybe you should youtube the Sturgell confirmation hearing that were on within the last two months to see how well manglement is taking care of the National Airspace System.
How hard is that to understand?

It shows how unprofessional/lackadaisical you are when you cannot even bother to spell check your work..can't wait to get you on the TRACON floor.

[wve_iii]

Last time I checked it was the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) not the Future Farmers of America (FFA) but maybe that didnt come up on your spell checker?

[Justin538]

Booyah!!!

hey ATLTRACON, do you mind if I just follow up your posts like I'm one of your "lackeys"?

Uhh, well I'm not as devoted towards message boards as some people, but when other people go ahead and make a point that I agree with, I would like their approval to just agree in a childish way.

For the record, I'm an "in the process" kid who just wants to join up with the controllers. I've wanted this for a long time, and I think I'm close (I took at-sat march 4 and got a 100. I think I have the skill set, and I'm hard headed in the sense that I won't quit trying until I'm kicked out).

[dcatcdude]

Seggy.....I am in this for a career. I will spend the rest of my life in a controller, managerial, and consultant role.I want the experience as a controller for my resume so I can later join the FAA in program management and actually make a change for the better for everyone.
(and yes I know you will all laugh at that, but I DO believe that)

You all dont have to agree with me, as you are controllers and have a very one sided mind, i know alot wont agree with me, but you all bewildering me is not cool, your the ones who give controllers a bad name, not us so called noobies.

[surreal1221]

You kids just don't get it do you?

I love how NATCA is being blamed for the current work conditions.

Point the finger(s) in the direction of your guys' future employer (if you get your way). Why anyone would start taking up a defense of the FAA's hiring, work rules, and occupational practices are beyond me.

What exactly is so damn bad about having a collective bargaining association, that is defending YOU, and protecting YOUR career from an employer who has ZERO regard for your health, or your mental state?

WAKE THE HELL UP.

NATCA is NOT the devil in this situation, they haven't been EVER. The FAA, and the horrible leadership that exists at the top are the ones you need to start questioning. Just because you want to work as a controller, doesn't mean you have to be ignorant to the obvious facts that the FAA does not care about you.

[Fox Xray]

Originally Posted by dcatcdude

1st yes i am in the hiring process, and have never had an issue with NATCA, nor anyone from NATCA

2nd. I understand what NATCA does, but I PERSONALLY think that they take the wrong approach to everything. AS I belive MANAGERS do to. its a product of a system thats has been broken for many many years. If it continues this way it will never be fixed.

NATCA and both managers need to learn to compromise and both be on the same level. THATS WHAT IM GETTING AT!

The reason you guys currently are worked so hard is due to the inability of the controller work force trying to understand why there have not been more hiring in previous years. The FAA would of loved to hire more, but was unable to due to congress and the budget. hence why they outsourced AFSS so that they make more room in the budget for hiring. I can guarentee you that they did not want to end up cutting costs, but they had to to avoid you guys working harder than you already due. If you dont understand that you are just flat out iggnorant.

FAA gets more money------hires more people-------trains more people------less stressed and not overworked the workforce is

how hard is it to understand that?

Let me get this straight ... you have yet to step inside an FAA facility as an air traffic controller but you have the answers to all the problems with the FAA, NATCA, hiring, and every other problem facing the agency.

It's times like this I wish the FAA did not drug test because whatever you are smoking must be some really good stuff... you are in for such a rude awakening if you get hired. The reality vs the fantasy that you are posting could not be further apart...