ATSAT Math

[sandman9r]

Well, I'm a mere 8 hours away from the test here in New York and cramming for this math section has proven to be futile. I simply don't get it.

Perhaps I'm thinking too hard or perhaps I'm not seeing the light but when it comes to math, I'm pretty much dyslexic, if that makes sense.

I'll let everyone knows how it goes but I'm certain that this damn section will drag down my score. That T = D/S formula in the green book is useless. The textbook makes no mention of the other possible formulas such as D = TS or S = TD. And even if it did, how the hell am I supposed to multiply something by 1.5 or 3.75?!

I thought everyone's explanation here made sense but when I try and apply it to a different problem, it doesn't work.

Whatever. I'm just venting. I shall now go to bed knowing that I'm going to drop a nuclear on the math section.

This forum rules.

[BadPassportPhoto]

Originally Posted by sandman9r

Well, I'm a mere 8 hours away from the test here in New York and cramming for this math section has proven to be futile. I simply don't get it.

Perhaps I'm thinking too hard or perhaps I'm not seeing the light but when it comes to math, I'm pretty much dyslexic, if that makes sense.

I'll let everyone knows how it goes but I'm certain that this damn section will drag down my score. That T = D/S formula in the green book is useless. The textbook makes no mention of the other possible formulas such as D = TS or S = TD. And even if it did, how the hell am I supposed to multiply something by 1.5 or 3.75?!

I thought everyone's explanation here made sense but when I try and apply it to a different problem, it doesn't work.

Whatever. I'm just venting. I shall now go to bed knowing that I'm going to drop a nuclear on the math section.

This forum rules.

I hear you loud and clear man, same dilemma. My test is Friday and anxious couldn't even begin to describe me.

Well good luck!

And hop on sometime during the day to let me know how the math part went.

[GQ007]

Although this info is too late for the original poster as he is well underway with the test (hope all goes well) this may help future test takers

distance= speed X time is the basic formula

speed= distance/time and time= distance/speed are rearrangements to the basic formula similar to the way in which you can say 8=4X2...4=8/2...2=8/4

When multiplying by decimals or fractions in my head I find it easier to multiply by the whole number and then deal with the decimal for example 600 knots times 3.5 hours= 600x3= 1800 + 300 (.5x600 or half of 600) which will give you a distance of 2100. It may also be helpful to know the parts of an hour that are not commonly used like the back of your hand (e.g., a fifth of an hour is 12 minutes, a third is 20 minutes)

I know can get more complicated when dealing with tailwind/headwind components and climbing rates but once you have the basics down it's easy to build upon them

[FedererFan]

just add :-)

240 x 1.5

240 + (1/2 of 240 b/c the .5) 120 = 360

same if its 3.75

240 X 3.75

well you know

240+240+240(3) = 720

+ 3/4 (.75) of 24 = 18

72 + 18 = 90

= 900

[Zoesmom1020]

See, I know all the math, I know the formulas and how you derive these answers. However, I CANNOT do them in my head. I need to write them down. And that is why I bombed the math...

[sandman9r]

There's another thread in this forum where users are posting their scores. I'll probably be the first to admit to a failing score when it becomes available.

To Future Test Takers - Heed My Word:

As stated above, I took the test today. To all of those that say you can't study for this test, they're wrong. In fact, studying is the only way to guarantee a decent grade. Unless you're a math whiz or just a good test taker, I highly recommend the green book.

I was fed to the lions on the math section. I made educated guesses on every single question. I remember a high school teacher telling us that when you guess, pick all C's as most standardized tests tend to put C as the correct answer. At first, I felt like a total moron. However, I wasn't alone. Most people guessed too. Let me explain.

The math section is the second part tested after the opening section, the Dials. The scanning section is third. Ten minutes into the math section, when I knew I would bomb, all you heard in the room was the loud tapping of keys being pressed on the plastic keyboard. It was the sound of TAP TAP TAP in unison. Go ahead, try it now: Press two keys on your number pad and then hit enter. That's all I heard. Now if this sound was all that was heard throughout the entire room no sooner than 10 minutes after I started the math section, either A) my fellow test takers are math geniuses and didn't need the alloted 26 minutes or B) Just like me, they guessed. Two fellow New Yorkers whom I spoked with during lunch admitted flat out guessing on the math.

Analogies were brutal too. They were all tough.

On the Air Traffic scenarios, I got the following abysmal scores: 70, 50, 50, 50. These are all out of a possible 100. The 7 second delay actually hurts you more than it helps. I became so used to Jeremy Justice's fluid version that I thought having more time to think would help. Instead, having the screen literally pause as you command one plane at a time is more difficult than having a 1 second refresh.

Another gripe about the ATC scenarios: The computer intentionally spawns new planes in front of other planes so you're forced to make adjustments which distract you from landing a plane properly or guiding it out. I easily attribute my 6 or so crashes on this. In one instance, I had a plane heading west (<---F4D) with no traffic in site and a few refreshes away from a clear exit when suddenly, a handoff plane appears (--->M4A) and they collide.

Don't underestimate the fatigue factor. It seemed as if the letter factory section or ATC scenarios would never end. When those prompts come up telling you to take a break or go to lunch, you'll definitely need it. I was the last one to leave the test room. We began promptly at 8:30 and I was done at 2:30.

The test is still very fresh in my mind and I'm currently working on an FAQ to assist future ATSAT test takers. My initial impression is that contrary to popular belief, everything on this exam can definitely be studied for.

[BadPassportPhoto]

So sandman for the ATC scenarios, by 7 second delay, does that mean the planes were paused, you change whatever headings and speeds and whatever you need to do, and 7 seconds later it refreshes where they would be? So they're almost like halfway across the screen when it refreshes?

[JKoffler44]

Not halfway across the screen. With the 7 second delay, it doesn't move as much as you would think it would. The 7 second delay, also is when the screen refreshes, so everything moves at the same time.

[Justin538]

Originally Posted by sandman9r

There's another thread in this forum where users are posting their scores. I'll probably be the first to admit to a failing score when it becomes available.

To Future Test Takers - Heed My Word:

As stated above, I took the test today. To all of those that say you can't study for this test, they're wrong. In fact, studying is the only way to guarantee a decent grade. no studying here, 100 Unless you're a math whiz it's simple multiplication or division or just a good test taker, I highly recommend the green book.

I was fed to the lions on the math section. you've been on this board, it has been explained several times I made educated guesses on every single question. I remember a high school teacher telling us that when you guess, pick all C's as most standardized tests tend to put C as the correct answer.your teacher was stupid At first, I felt like a total moron. However, I wasn't alone. Most people guessed too. I didn't. Let me explain.

The math section is the second part tested after the opening section, the Dials. The scanning section is third. Ten minutes into the math section, when I knew I would bomb, all you heard in the room was the loud tapping of keys being pressed on the plastic keyboard. I promise it will be quiet when you are a controller It was the sound of TAP TAP TAP in unison. Go ahead, try it now: Press two keys on your number pad and then hit enter. That's all I heard. Now if this sound was all that was heard throughout the entire room no sooner than 10 minutes after I started the math section, either A) my fellow test takers are math geniuses and didn't need the alloted 26 minutes or B) Just like me, they guessed. Two fellow New Yorkers whom I spoked with during lunch admitted flat out guessing on the math.

Analogies were brutal too. They were all tough.

On the Air Traffic scenarios, I got the following abysmal scores: 70, 50, 50, 50. These are all out of a possible 100. The 7 second delay actually hurts you more than it helps. I became so used to Jeremy Justice's fluid version that I thought having more time to think would help. Instead, having the screen literally pause as you command one plane at a time is more difficult than having a 1 second refresh. This is by far the dumbest thing I have ever heard

Another gripe about the ATC scenarios: The computer intentionally spawns new planes in front of other planes so you're forced to make adjustments which distract you from landing a plane properly or guiding it out.that's the point! easily attribute my 6 or so crashes on this. In one instance, I had a plane heading west (<---F4D) with no traffic in site and a few refreshes away from a clear exit when suddenly, a handoff plane appears (--->M4A) and they collide.

Don't underestimate the fatigue factor. It seemed as if the letter factory section or ATC scenarios would never end. When those prompts come up telling you to take a break or go to lunch, you'll definitely need it. I was the last one to leave the test room. We began promptly at 8:30 and I was done at 2:30.

The test is still very fresh in my mind and I'm currently working on an FAQ to assist future ATSAT test takers. My initial impression is that contrary to popular belief, everything on this exam can definitely be studied for.

Sandman, since I received a score of 100 on the test, I feel obliged to chime in. You may want to consider a different profession. The analogies were not too difficult. Stop scaring people. The give you plenty of time for the sections, like 25 minutes for 25 questions. The easy ones will take five seconds, maybe the harder ones will take several minutes. The analogies require that you are capable of analyzing what's in front of you, and determining similarites, or differences in the first pair, and concluding which answer uses that same formula for the second pair. This goes beyond the hot:cold tall:short examples from your SAT. You cannot study some of those, because you still have to be able to recognize the similarities and differences.

The math you can study for, but if you can't do simple (WHOLE NUMBERS!) multiplication or division in your head the studying won't do you a whole lot of good. Those questions were literally multiply or divide.

If you had read the directions, you would have known that you can issue directions to as many planes as you want in between each refresh. Also, if you had two planes near each other, you can do a 180 in one refresh. Turn it around!


So, if anybody who hasn't taken this test, read this carefully.


You have to read the directions completely. They are very inclusive, and the practice questions will help. The math is rate/distance problems. You can familiarize yourself with the formula, but honestly, the ability to multiply and divide whole numbers in your head is important. If you can't do that, you'll be guessing.

The directions show you each incarnation of the analogies. Pay attention to those.

and don't listen to Sandman, he just ate some rotten apples or something.

[Justin538]

Originally Posted by BadPassportPhoto

So sandman for the ATC scenarios, by 7 second delay, does that mean the planes were paused, you change whatever headings and speeds and whatever you need to do, and 7 seconds later it refreshes where they would be? So they're almost like halfway across the screen when it refreshes?

They move like half an inch at "fast" speed between each update.

[BadPassportPhoto]

Originally Posted by Justin538

They move like half an inch at "fast" speed between each update.

Ah, right on. I've been practicing with my green book software cd and do pretty good I think so I'm fairly confident with it. On the actual test I'm wondering how letter factory and atc scenarios work, are they just timed? Or after you get so many things correct?

Also, say you're on a math problem or analogy and are on it for longer than you wanna be, can you skip it and get to it at the end of the questions?

[Justin538]

yeah, in the instructions, it will tell you to not select an answer, and move on. Any questions you skip will return at the end.

[wve_iii]

Justin I agree with you totally. I also scored 100. The math on the test is very basic it gives you instructions at the beginning and some questions add some unneeded information. But I would have to say this is pretty basic stuff in terms of logical thinking and basic Add/Sub/Mult/Div. You could study but I dont think it will really help that much on this portion. At this age if this stuff doesnt come to you naturally, then Im pretty sure that studying math is not going to help much.
In many places that describe this occupation it states that it is a job in which you have to implement a complex set of instructions/rules and be able to adjust for changes on the fly. All sections have exactly this "detailed instructions" so read those and take the test. I honestly wouldnt be surprised if they graded you on how close your breaks/lunch were to what it told you to do, ie. did it tell you to take a 15 minute break and you skipped it or took too long or something. I dont know this to be true but im sure there are performance indicators on this test that arent simply did he/she get the questions right. They may even see how long you took to read the instructions or something else similiar.
Basically I would say the best studying you can do for this test is to use the practice games repeatedly, accurate or not to the real test they are going to get you in the frame of mind and stimulate your mind. I would practice 10 key for the scan this is something that is not a standard skill but will help on the test. As far as the math i dont think any matter of studying is going to signifigantly increase your score in that area.

[JKoffler44]

I don't know about the breaks being timed. The test administrators told everyone that they weren't really important and that most people don't take the full time. As far as the 10 key. That is very important. I googled numerical key practice and practiced on a website. I saw a couple of people using the row numbers and I don't know how they could go very fast using those!

[BadPassportPhoto]

Originally Posted by JKoffler44

I don't know about the breaks being timed. The test administrators told everyone that they weren't really important and that most people don't take the full time. As far as the 10 key. That is very important. I googled numerical key practice and practiced on a website. I saw a couple of people using the row numbers and I don't know how they could go very fast using those!

Can anyone tell me if the 10 key is opposite how it is on a regular keyboard? I've read that it's different, with 123 starting at the top instead of 789. Either way I'm not too worried about it, as my typing skills, both alpha and numeric are off the charts... but I am still wondering.

[kcarpentier]

Originally Posted by BadPassportPhoto

Can anyone tell me if the 10 key is opposite how it is on a regular keyboard? I've read that it's different, with 123 starting at the top instead of 789. Either way I'm not too worried about it, as my typing skills, both alpha and numeric are off the charts... but I am still wondering.

they use a standard keyboard, so from the top its numlock / * - then 789, etc etc

[BadPassportPhoto]

Originally Posted by kcarpentier

they use a standard keyboard, so from the top its numlock / * - then 789, etc etc

Very nice, no more having to tell myself "Remember it may be the opposite way!" then.