ATC Starting Salary

andr3w · November 23rd, 2007, 10:30

Hey,

I know this is probably a question asked about 50 times a week, but I really cant find any answers anywhere. I am 18 years old and about to start school at Vaughn College of Aeronautics in New York. I am taking up a BA in Electrical Engineering, with and ATC option. What is the median starting salary for an Air Traffic Controller, and what is the usual process. Also, I will be graduating in 2012, so will be there be a demand for Air Traffic Controllers, or will I be stuck on a list waiting to hear from the FAA? Thanks in advance for any input.

Andrew

Omdahl · November 23rd, 2007, 11:20

You can find the current imposed payscale under "Air Traffic Specialized Pay Plan Pay Tables" through the site below. The including locality scale is only going to give you the pay with locality in major cities, not everywhere.

https://employees.faa.gov/employee_s.../pay_perf/pay/

Polarbear · November 23rd, 2007, 16:31

www.atccti.com is a great source of information too.

PilotChip · November 24th, 2007, 01:44

$40,062

Forum Discussion

canadian_atc · November 26th, 2007, 08:31

Hopefully the FAA will realize it's going to be hard to keep new hires with a starting salary of 40K!

PilotChip, being from your nothern brothers, and our system being different, how exactly does your system work? Do you have to work in a tower before going to a center/tracon?

surreal1221 · November 26th, 2007, 14:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by canadian_atc

PilotChip, being from your nothern brothers, and our system being different, how exactly does your system work? Do you have to work in a tower before going to a center/tracon?

No.

PilotChip · November 26th, 2007, 15:41

Nope. Depends what the FAA needs at the time. You can get picked for center, tracon, or tower just the same, even off the street.

JimmyK · November 26th, 2007, 15:48

Anyone know how that compares to a contract facility? More? Less?

And PilotChip, are you with the FAA or at a contract facility?

PilotChip · November 26th, 2007, 20:13

I believe, with time in service, the FAA has a higher pay scale. And that should increase relatively soon, hopefully.

I don't really know much about contract pay.

I'm in the FAA.

Bigey · November 27th, 2007, 02:29

Hows lifestyle like?

I thoroughly enjoy flying but wouldnt mind kicking the ATC thing for a while. I dont know...i love the idea of flying but i would hate 10 years from now wishing i tried the ATC thing too.

Care to elaborate? I know 40k isnt alot for ATC, but it would be nicer than a starting salary at a regional for 25.

canadian_atc · November 27th, 2007, 02:57

Here's hoping for all you guys they bring the salaries back up to where they should be with the rest of us in the world.

Horrible they pay new controllers that kind of money

madmax · November 27th, 2007, 03:27

My understanding of the pay scale is that it is based off of the size of your facility, and your retirement pay is based on you highest earning 3 years. I know a lot of our controllers came from places like SFO and SEA and are now just putting in their time at our Class D airport and TRACON.

On a side note, it's amazing how different the controllers are. The ones from big centers seem so chill and act like working here is nothing, whereas the ones who have just worked our facility seem to get all wound up and angry.

surreal1221 · November 27th, 2007, 09:04

I really can't understand why anyone would be willing to go and work for the FAA right now. It's all a sham.

Makes me wonder where all these new guys are coming from. Were they part of the CTI program(s), that when you started such programs initial hire pay was in the mid-50's to upper 60's depending on facility (post OKC)? Not even to mention the fact that you were told you would top out well into six figures (none of this 105k a year crap either).

I understand the military guys leaving their organizations for the civilian world. . .good on you. . .but to everyone else in the CTI programs. . .i yi yi. Don't forget the FAA imposed the current "non-"tract onto you, after lieing to you about what you WOULD be making.

Off the street hires. . .ah great. . .that'll work. I am seriously concerned for the safety and quality of our NAS as we move into the next decade. It's going to be amazing. Reminds me of the McDonald's commercials where they showcased each person's current position "cashier, manager, cook" and then showed what they would be doing in the "future." The drive thru individual today is tomorrow's "Air Traffic Controller" because they once wore a headset and talked to people. . .so sad.

Just say no.

Canadian_atc - not to derail the present topic, but have you always worked for NavCanada or do you have some time in the field before it became privatized? If so, would you prefer to go back to government controlled ATC?

canadian_atc · November 27th, 2007, 13:59

Surreal, I'm a recently qualified controller, so I've always been with NavCanada.

However I have had that conversation with quite a few people who did do the transition. Mixed feelings on it I find, the schedule was better then 5 on 4 off, but the pay is much better now, party because of raises and also because of the fact that they do work more hours over the year now, our normal schedule being : 6 on 4 off, 6 on 4 off, 5 on 3 off, repeat.
There are lots of differences from the way we staff now to back then as well from what I've been told, while most people I talk to have gripes with the company, many of them think they wouldn't be making as much money with Transport Canada had they stayed.

Speaking of pay, our starting salary (IFR controller... as in a center/terminal etc) is around $84,000 when you factor OFP (Facility Premium, and that's different in places like Toronto/Vancouver, but not by much) All that being said, there's enough overtime going around, that by the end of my first year I'll be grossing over $100K

PilotChip · November 27th, 2007, 18:11

Although I understand how the pay "used to be" i won't necessarily complain about it because life's not always fair. I continued into the agency because I had a great background and experience resume coming out of the Marines. There really wasn't anything else I needed to do to get into the Agency, skill-wise.

Don't forget, pay is not the only issue. Yah, I don't like having to bring ready-made meals to work everyday, but 6hrs of leave every 2 weeks is good enough for me. I DON'T like how they are trying to limit the sick leave though. Practically a fake sense of leave that you must prove is needed in order not to get an abuse letter (I have not been in this situation yet though.)

I can totally understand the more experienced controllers being upset with the new policies, but as for me, I'm glad to be an air traffic controller at 24 and comparing this job to any other job i could have right now, this seems great. I still want to continue flying and get my pplh. Remember, you can always fly while you're a controller, but you can't be a controller if you're a full time pilot!

I figure i could worry and complain about the "new" rules, but i wasn't even here for the old rules so I don't feel as though I'm in a position to actually be affected by it all. Not saying the new rules are good, but I do support the union and hopefully everybody's voice will make a change in the near future.

surreal1221 · November 27th, 2007, 18:48

Canadian_atc,

Over 100k a year considering overtime. . .for a starting controller. . .amazing.

Not that I think a privatized system here in the states would increase pay, or increase safety, but wow. Very nice.

And Chip, I can understand junior enlisted members leaving the military. Getting back into the civilian world yields a certain increase in QOL that can't be achieved if one were to stay in the military. Not knocking you for your decision. Even if all the military or DOD controllers left their respective agencies the FAA would still be up crap creek without a paddle in regards to staffing.

canadian_atc · November 28th, 2007, 00:49

All things being said, we do have a number of issues that can only be attributed to our place being run more and more like a business, it's supposed to be not for profit, but there's lot of things we'd like/need as controllers that other centres around the world get that they just basically laugh at us for.

Even getting some procedures written on paper (CYA kinda thing) can be like pulling teeth.

Overall however, coming up on my first year qualified, I'm very happy with my job, I love working here, and my co-workers are the best co-workers I've ever had hands down.

There are definate pros and cons between private and government run ATC operations, but what you guys have down in the states is still more complex than what was run up here during the government days anyway! Contract towers and all that... not to mention a helluva lot more employees!

madmax · November 28th, 2007, 01:21

How do you guys (both ATC and Pilots) feel about FSS being run by MD? I kind of miss talking to controllers who were familiar with the area and actually knew about weather trends and specific to the area.

surreal1221 · November 28th, 2007, 06:54

MD? You mean LM?

Fox Xray · November 28th, 2007, 09:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by canadian_atc

our normal schedule being : 6 on 4 off, 6 on 4 off, 5 on 3 off, repeat.

Speaking of pay, our starting salary (IFR controller... as in a center/terminal etc) is around $84,000 when you factor OFP (Facility Premium, and that's different in places like Toronto/Vancouver, but not by much) All that being said, there's enough overtime going around, that by the end of my first year I'll be grossing over $100K

That sure beats my schedule of 6 on and 1 off...

Under the old pay rules if a new hire went to a level 12 they could expect to break 100K by their second year. Under the new pay rules my pay is capped... my base (and everyone pre IWR's) is above the new pay bands so any raise is computed as a lump sum. A locality pay rate increase is the only thing that ups my base at this point.

A lot of people are turning the job down, at least where I work. Not only have people turned it down but we have lost an unusually high amount of new hires to resignations.

canadian_atc · November 28th, 2007, 12:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fox Xray

That sure beats my schedule of 6 on and 1 off...

Under the old pay rules if a new hire went to a level 12 they could expect to break 100K by their second year. Under the new pay rules my pay is capped... my base (and everyone pre IWR's) is above the new pay bands so any raise is computed as a lump sum. A locality pay rate increase is the only thing that ups my base at this point.

A lot of people are turning the job down, at least where I work. Not only have people turned it down but we have lost an unusually high amount of new hires to resignations.

Really can't say I blame them... well at some point they'll have to wake up and fix it, or there's going to be lot of airplanes sitting on the ground.

Polarbear · November 28th, 2007, 16:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by surreal1221

Off the street hires. . .ah great. . .that'll work. I am seriously concerned for the safety and quality of our NAS as we move into the next decade. It's going to be amazing. Reminds me of the McDonald's commercials where they showcased each person's current position "cashier, manager, cook" and then showed what they would be doing in the "future." The drive thru individual today is tomorrow's "Air Traffic Controller" because they once wore a headset and talked to people. . .so sad.

Just say no.

You do realize a good portion of the seasoned controllers came up through the OTS ranks right?

When I have visited facilities so far, The vast majority of controllers there were like: "Awesome, a guy getting the job the way we used to get jobs here. You do know that is how most of us got hired in the first place right?"

Stinger · November 28th, 2007, 18:13

I'm going the CTI school route and even though the pay has been cut down some, I'm still going to do ATC. I wasn't around when the controllers were getting above $100,000 so I wasn't bothered too much when pay was dropped. We'll see what happens though when I graduate college.

surreal1221 · November 28th, 2007, 20:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fox Xray

A lot of people are turning the job down, at least where I work. Not only have people turned it down but we have lost an unusually high amount of new hires to resignations.

Yup. . .was a pretty easy "Thanks, but no thanks." on my end.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polarbear

You do realize a good portion of the seasoned controllers came up through the OTS ranks right?

When I have visited facilities so far, The vast majority of controllers there were like: "Awesome, a guy getting the job the way we used to get jobs here. You do know that is how most of us got hired in the first place right?"

And you do realize that the CTI program was not around immediately after the PATCO strike right?

When the FAA has pumped it's own budgetary funds into a program (CTI - College training initiative) to develop future Air Traffic Controllers, and tell these same future controllers that you'll be making >100K for over 30 years as a controller, THEN - imposes a contract onto the profession you (generic - FAA) should have no one to blame about not having enough staff but yourself (generic - FAA).

The FAA's problem was being a horrible negotiator. Off the street hires in this day in age is a different ball game then what it was post-PATCO strike. This is the Me-generation.

PilotChip · November 29th, 2007, 00:41

Doesn't really seem to be a problem. Although the only thing i do is give 'em a callsigne, route and altitude, open/close a flight plan or two.

They seem to be doing just fine for the amount of work I need them to do.

Thumbs up!

Quote:

Originally Posted by madmax

How do you guys (both ATC and Pilots) feel about FSS being run by MD? I kind of miss talking to controllers who were familiar with the area and actually knew about weather trends and specific to the area.