Need direction; some questions: majors, schools, gen. info..

CampbellsChunkySoupra · June 19th, 2007, 01:04

+Heres my current situation in a nut-shell. Im 19 years old. I left the University of Iowa to come back to Des Moines to go to a community college to save some money. ive currently completed my first year of school and have a 3.4 GPA. i attend Des Moines Area Community College [DMACC] So far, the only school in iowa that seems to offer a degree in Aviation Management is the University of Dubuque which happens to be a very expensive private school. ive since decided to look elseware. ive been doing some research from several online websites with lists of schools with majors listed as: Air Traffic Control and Aviation Management. I have a cousin that attends the University of North Dakota for ATC. i have heard awhile ago that it is one of the best places to go. its a shame i hate the cold. i have heard of the whole "embry-riddle" and the like and that just seems to be WAY out of my budget. so bare with me please...

+im really here just trying to find out a direction of what i need to do and where i should start. i have a list of schools that are out of state with fairly affordable tuition costs and decently sized names. i should have 2 years of general education done prior to moving on to one of these schools. i want to move on after next years classes and get started in the programs so i can get what i need to get done.

Questions:
1. I wish to become an Air Traffic Controller, what major must i pursue? Air Traffic Control or Aviation Management?
2. What kind of jobs can be obtained with either of the following majors: Air Traffic Control and Aviation Management.
3. Which of the following schools are reputable for any of the programs
listed above? [these were selected for several personal reasons... etc.]
- Mountain View College
- Miami Dade College
- Eastern New Mexico University: Roswell Campus
- Tulsa Community College
- Florida Community College at Jacksonville
- University of Nebraska: Omaha
4. Are there any online classes that i can take to get me ahead in the Aviation field?

thank you for viewing this thread and i appreciate any insight, thought, advice, and opinion that may be offered in your responses. hopefully i will get some of this sorted out.

-Tyler

DE727UPS · June 19th, 2007, 01:21

http://www.faa.gov/jobs/employment_i...atcti_schools/

This is a list of the schools you in the at-cti program. I don't believe you need a four year degree and I know for sure you don't need to be a pilot.

CampbellsChunkySoupra · June 19th, 2007, 01:32

ok, so does that mean that those are the ONLY schools that will be accepted or qualify for the FAA? why would all of those other schools even bother offering programs if they are not approved by the FAA?

DE727UPS · June 19th, 2007, 01:46

Good question. You're getting outside my scope of being willing to comment. I know there are some at-cti guys here at JC. Hopefully, one of them will notice this....

SteveC · June 19th, 2007, 07:07

CampbellsChunkySoupra · June 19th, 2007, 11:32

awesome. thanks for moving it. i almost put it in that forum but decided not to. oh well. thanks so far for the info that has been given to me.

-Tyler

surreal1221 · June 19th, 2007, 13:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by CampbellsChunkySoupra

ok, so does that mean that those are the ONLY schools that will be accepted or qualify for the FAA? why would all of those other schools even bother offering programs if they are not approved by the FAA?

Yes, only schools certified by the FAA as ATC-CTI schools should be looked at.

Schools that advertise ATC curriculum without being an ATC-CTI school will only lead you to a debt with no possibility of being recommended to the FAA.

Because either they are attempting to get certified, and some will fail, so it's best to stick with one of the 13 schools who have been around the game for over a decade. Such as Miami-Dade, Embry-Riddle, UND, Middle Tennessee, Community College of Beaver County, etc. . .one of the 13 schools.

I attended Miami-Dade's program. Was great. Unfortunately I will turn down a job offer from the FAA due to their lack of fair negotiations with the controller's union. Make sure you're willing to be at the FAA's disposal before you dive head first into this career. Like flying, have a back up.

Fox Xray · June 19th, 2007, 21:49

Surreal's info on CTI programs is right on ... I couldn't have said it better. As for ATC as a career choice things are very turbulent right now working for the FAA, at 19 you are still young, the cutoff is age 31.

My advice... pursue the ATC thing if you desire but have a solid plan B, something outside of aviation. The aviation filed is very unpredictable and is only getting worse. The FAA is another story... right now they are just a terrible employer to work for. For the past year going to work has been anything but a pleasant experience.

Cessnaflyer · June 19th, 2007, 23:05

I went to the Seattle ARTCC in Auburn for one of my classes at Central Washington University and what surreal said was exactly what all the controllers there said. I sat with one of the D side controllers on the GEG sector I forgot what school he went to but he said to make sure it is certified.

I also talked to him at length about his airspace and he knew it so well. Makes me feel a little bit safer when asking for help over the radio.

CampbellsChunkySoupra · June 20th, 2007, 00:31

well so far i think ive read this from you guys:

+the ATC field sucks at the moment based solely on the FAA. The FAA is paying substantially less then what it used to pay in the past for ATC's.

+it is good to have something to fall back on incase you cant land an ATC job right away with decent pay.

-what kinds of jobs can you get with a degree in Aviation Management?

so far miami-dade has looked like the best option for me. it seems to meet most of my needs assuming i stick with this career.

-Tyler

rickyrhodesii · June 25th, 2007, 11:40

Don't rule the military out! I love my job as an air traffic controller in the Air Force. No degree or prior experience required. But I know, it's not for everyone.

Our controllers are getting out in droves for the "greener pastures" of the FAA...many call back and wish they hadn't made the jump right now.

If you ask me, I wouldn't (and didn't) trade my job in for a FAA job.

Let me know if you have any questions.

CampbellsChunkySoupra · June 26th, 2007, 00:56

Ricky-

what are the differences between pay in the military and a standard FAA ATC position?

Berkut · June 27th, 2007, 00:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by CampbellsChunkySoupra

well it is good to have something to fall back on incase you cant land an ATC job right away with decent pay.

Here's something else to consider: At MTSU, ATC-CTI is not a major, it's a program. You can major in any of the five concentrations in Aerospace and still do the CTI program. Makes it easy to have a backup.

CampbellsChunkySoupra · June 27th, 2007, 13:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berkut

Here's something else to consider: At MTSU, ATC-CTI is not a major, it's a program. You can major in any of the five concentrations in Aerospace and still do the CTI program. Makes it easy to have a backup.

awesome! thanks. ill look into that here tonight.

FiveO · June 27th, 2007, 15:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by CampbellsChunkySoupra

- Florida Community College at Jacksonville

I don't have anything else to offer you other than use that place as your last resort.

CampbellsChunkySoupra · June 27th, 2007, 19:51

once i get my motor put back in my car here tonight or tomorrow, ill be more into the "research mode" of things with this little deal. ill also be heading up to the des moines air port to talk with a few guys if i can.

thanks so far guys!

GalaxyIFE · June 28th, 2007, 17:08

I might be tooting my own horn, but the military is an excellent way to get the training you are looking for. The starting pay isn't great, but the reenlistment bonuses are very good (at least last time I looked) and the GI bill is worth about 39K for a $1,200 investment. I am working on my Master's degree now and so far, I haven't paid a DIME! Of course, there is no such thing as a free lunch, but they have treated me well considering. Just a thought if you REALLY want to be an ATC guy...and don't let the recruiter tell you otherwise, the DO have guaranteed jobs!

rickyrhodesii · June 28th, 2007, 22:15

Galaxy is right on. I'm a few courses short of my degree and none of it came out of my pocket. I'm also using the MGIB to pay for 60% of my instrument rating and commercial.

I can't tell you much about FAA pay, but here's a breakdown on my monthly pay:

Base Pay (based on your rank) ~$2300
BAS (money for food) ~$280
BAH (money for housing if you live off base/post) Varies for each location
Special Duty Pay (watch supervisor Pay, based on how long you've been a w/s) ~$225

Monthly total $2805, after taxes ~$2500
Annually ~$30,000

And don't forget the benefits that aren't included in your pay...free health and dental insurance, lodging, tax free retail store, use of numerous facilities (free or small charge) such as gyms, pools, golf courses, bowling alley and the list goes on...

I'm happy and proud to say I'm also debt free! But like you've probably heard before, we (military) don't do it for the money.

And in case you're wondering, no I'm not a recruiter!

CampbellsChunkySoupra · June 29th, 2007, 02:48

ok, so basically the military doesnt pay very well when it comes to ATC. is ATC a "full-time" position? what about the air national guard? [1weekend/month, etc.]

and as far as guarenteed job goes with the military, do u get to pick where u go at all? i dont want to end up in montana being an ATC. id like to go somewhere in the south-ish.

how often do ATC's get called up to go "over there?" i dont have a problem with deployment.

-Tyler

edit* i did some research in the ANG's website and it appears as if this is the degree that u speak of in the ANG: Airfield Management (1C0X1). i might look into that.

dheminger722 · July 5th, 2007, 18:03

In this situation I wouldnt spend any money on getting a degree in a CTI approved school you can still apply for the "Off the street" applications and just get a degree in a field of your choice as a plan B incase you get washed out..

What I did was go to College for Computer Information Tech.. and I was accepted still to take the AT-SAT if this is the case why spend the money on a degree that you could loose your job in a matter of a second.. Always have a way out..

Good Luck

icephalt24 · July 6th, 2007, 09:53

Having an out is always good especially in aviation, but you also have to weigh that against the percentage of OTS hires that don't wash out of OKC or their facility and fully check out in their facility which is about 25% vs 95% or more for CTI grads.

100LLguy · July 7th, 2007, 00:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fox Xray

The aviation filed is very unpredictable and is only getting worse. The FAA is another story... right now they are just a terrible employer to work for. For the past year going to work has been anything but a pleasant experience.

I agree here.....i have some friends in centers who hate it. I also have friends in the flying side of the field who hate it too. Seems to be a lot of bitching in the aviation field right now. I myself am going to be working on my masters degree and engage in flying for fun only

Fox Xray · July 7th, 2007, 12:36

Do not go into ATC for the money. That plan is just a sure fire way to fail, the money (at least in the past) used to be a nice benefit of a job that can be quite difficult at times. There are things going on in the background that I cannot discuss on an open board but things may be getting better for new hires soon, we'll have to see what happens.

I tell people all the time, have a plan B career just in case, whether it's taking a local PD exam or applying to other Gov't agencies, aviation is one 9/11 away from a massive hiring freeze. In theory the FAA should be hiring good numbers for several years so I feel that anyone wanting to try the job has a good chance of being hired.

Going into ATC via CTI or at least with aviation knowledge or experience will be a major plus in succeeding, especially if you are sent to a center. Where I work (center) we presently have several off the street hires and they are struggling. A few did not even make it out of the lab. The centers are getting tough... the traffic is at all time highs, staffing is way down and people are just tired... I have many more years to go and I'm feeling burned out.

The CTI's also have the advantage of being hired into smaller facilities where they can get up too speed and gain experience and eventually transfer to another higher facility. The ATSAT off the street hires are being sent only to busy facilities and upon failure are being fired... where CTI's are sent to lower facilities upon failure. I do not know why this is and I am only becoming aware of this now... the union cannot do a lot since they are still on probation when this happens.

If your heart is set on ATC and you do not want to go the military route (very good post Galaxy) then look into a CTI school, I think it gives you more options in ATC.

dheminger722 · July 8th, 2007, 10:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fox Xray

Do not go into ATC for the money. That plan is just a sure fire way to fail, the money (at least in the past) used to be a nice benefit of a job that can be quite difficult at times. There are things going on in the background that I cannot discuss on an open board but things may be getting better for new hires soon, we'll have to see what happens.

I tell people all the time, have a plan B career just in case, whether it's taking a local PD exam or applying to other Gov't agencies, aviation is one 9/11 away from a massive hiring freeze. In theory the FAA should be hiring good numbers for several years so I feel that anyone wanting to try the job has a good chance of being hired.

Going into ATC via CTI or at least with aviation knowledge or experience will be a major plus in succeeding, especially if you are sent to a center. Where I work (center) we presently have several off the street hires and they are struggling. A few did not even make it out of the lab. The centers are getting tough... the traffic is at all time highs, staffing is way down and people are just tired... I have many more years to go and I'm feeling burned out.

The CTI's also have the advantage of being hired into smaller facilities where they can get up too speed and gain experience and eventually transfer to another higher facility. The ATSAT off the street hires are being sent only to busy facilities and upon failure are being fired... where CTI's are sent to lower facilities upon failure. I do not know why this is and I am only becoming aware of this now... the union cannot do a lot since they are still on probation when this happens.

If your heart is set on ATC and you do not want to go the military route (very good post Galaxy) then look into a CTI school, I think it gives you more options in ATC.

Nice.. Since I'm OTS they are going to send me off into an even more stressful job to try and wash me out early.. WTF? Thanks for the input you ensure that me moving across the country will get me homeless within the first year if I washout.. Bah!

Fox Xray · July 9th, 2007, 13:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by dheminger722

Nice.. Since I'm OTS they are going to send me off into an even more stressful job to try and wash me out early.. WTF? Thanks for the input you ensure that me moving across the country will get me homeless within the first year if I washout.. Bah!

I never intend to try and scare anyone but I don't think it should be sugar coated either. I would say that the one place in Florida that new hires should not be sent is MIA tower/tracon. Those types of environments are very difficult to learn to be a controller. They are very busy, very complex, and usually short staffed. This leads to delayed inconsistent training, training on traffic way above what someone starting out should work on, and in general is not a great scenario. The other Florida options are all good places to go to learn the job.

Just my $.02

June 19th, 2007, 01:04	#1
CampbellsChunkySoupra Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Norwalk, Iowa Posts: 84	Need direction; some questions: majors, schools, gen. info.. +Heres my current situation in a nut-shell. Im 19 years old. I left the University of Iowa to come back to Des Moines to go to a community college to save some money. ive currently completed my first year of school and have a 3.4 GPA. i attend Des Moines Area Community College [DMACC] So far, the only school in iowa that seems to offer a degree in Aviation Management is the University of Dubuque which happens to be a very expensive private school. ive since decided to look elseware. ive been doing some research from several online websites with lists of schools with majors listed as: Air Traffic Control and Aviation Management. I have a cousin that attends the University of North Dakota for ATC. i have heard awhile ago that it is one of the best places to go. its a shame i hate the cold. i have heard of the whole "embry-riddle" and the like and that just seems to be WAY out of my budget. so bare with me please... +im really here just trying to find out a direction of what i need to do and where i should start. i have a list of schools that are out of state with fairly affordable tuition costs and decently sized names. i should have 2 years of general education done prior to moving on to one of these schools. i want to move on after next years classes and get started in the programs so i can get what i need to get done. *Questions:* 1. I wish to become an Air Traffic Controller, what major must i pursue? Air Traffic Control or Aviation Management? 2. What kind of jobs can be obtained with either of the following majors: Air Traffic Control and Aviation Management. 3. Which of the following schools are reputable for any of the programs listed above? [these were selected for several personal reasons... etc.] - Mountain View College - Miami Dade College - Eastern New Mexico University: Roswell Campus - Tulsa Community College - Florida Community College at Jacksonville - University of Nebraska: Omaha 4. Are there any online classes that i can take to get me ahead in the Aviation field? thank you for viewing this thread and i appreciate any insight, thought, advice, and opinion that may be offered in your responses. hopefully i will get some of this sorted out. -Tyler

June 19th, 2007, 01:21	#2
DE727UPS Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 6,481	Re: Need direction; some questions: majors, schools, gen. in http://www.faa.gov/jobs/employment_i...atcti_schools/ This is a list of the schools you in the at-cti program. I don't believe you need a four year degree and I know for sure you don't need to be a pilot. __________________ Click here to see how I became a UPS pilot http://www.jetcareers.com/content/view/65/132/

June 19th, 2007, 01:32	#3
CampbellsChunkySoupra Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Norwalk, Iowa Posts: 84	Re: Need direction; some questions: majors, schools, gen. in ok, so does that mean that those are the ONLY schools that will be accepted or qualify for the FAA? why would all of those other schools even bother offering programs if they are not approved by the FAA? __________________ "Like sand through the hourglass, so are the days of our lives..."

June 19th, 2007, 01:46	#4
DE727UPS Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 6,481	Re: Need direction; some questions: majors, schools, gen. in Good question. You're getting outside my scope of being willing to comment. I know there are some at-cti guys here at JC. Hopefully, one of them will notice this.... __________________ Click here to see how I became a UPS pilot http://www.jetcareers.com/content/view/65/132/

June 19th, 2007, 07:07	#5
SteveC Moderator Join Date: May 2003 Location: GRR Posts: 8,349	Re: Need direction; some questions: majors, schools, gen. in <Moved thread to the ATC forum. Better chance of controllers finding it here...> __________________ . Life is painful. Suffering is optional.

June 19th, 2007, 11:32	#6
CampbellsChunkySoupra Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Norwalk, Iowa Posts: 84	Re: Need direction; some questions: majors, schools, gen. in awesome. thanks for moving it. i almost put it in that forum but decided not to. oh well. thanks so far for the info that has been given to me. -Tyler __________________ "Like sand through the hourglass, so are the days of our lives..."

June 19th, 2007, 21:49	#8
Fox Xray ATC Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 401	Re: Need direction; some questions: majors, schools, gen. in Surreal's info on CTI programs is right on ... I couldn't have said it better. As for ATC as a career choice things are very turbulent right now working for the FAA, at 19 you are still young, the cutoff is age 31. My advice... pursue the ATC thing if you desire but have a solid plan B, something outside of aviation. The aviation filed is very unpredictable and is only getting worse. The FAA is another story... right now they are just a terrible employer to work for. For the past year going to work has been anything but a pleasant experience.

June 19th, 2007, 23:05	#9
Cessnaflyer Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Sammamish, WA Posts: 1,411	Re: Need direction; some questions: majors, schools, gen. in I went to the Seattle ARTCC in Auburn for one of my classes at Central Washington University and what surreal said was exactly what all the controllers there said. I sat with one of the D side controllers on the GEG sector I forgot what school he went to but he said to make sure it is certified. I also talked to him at length about his airspace and he knew it so well. Makes me feel a little bit safer when asking for help over the radio. __________________ Chris, CFI, CFII Now I could let these dream killers kill my self-esteem or use it as the steam to power my dreams That's how you treat things, stay hungry.

June 20th, 2007, 00:31	#10
CampbellsChunkySoupra Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Norwalk, Iowa Posts: 84	Re: Need direction; some questions: majors, schools, gen. in well so far i think ive read this from you guys: +the ATC field sucks at the moment based solely on the FAA. The FAA is paying substantially less then what it used to pay in the past for ATC's. +it is good to have something to fall back on incase you cant land an ATC job right away with decent pay. -what kinds of jobs can you get with a degree in Aviation Management? so far miami-dade has looked like the best option for me. it seems to meet most of my needs assuming i stick with this career. -Tyler __________________ "Like sand through the hourglass, so are the days of our lives..."

June 25th, 2007, 11:40	#11
rickyrhodesii Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Southwest Asia... Posts: 403	Re: Need direction; some questions: majors, schools, gen. in Don't rule the military out! I love my job as an air traffic controller in the Air Force. No degree or prior experience required. But I know, it's not for everyone. Our controllers are getting out in droves for the "greener pastures" of the FAA...many call back and wish they hadn't made the jump right now. If you ask me, I wouldn't (and didn't) trade my job in for a FAA job. Let me know if you have any questions. __________________ Rick

June 26th, 2007, 00:56	#12
CampbellsChunkySoupra Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Norwalk, Iowa Posts: 84	Re: Need direction; some questions: majors, schools, gen. in Ricky- what are the differences between pay in the military and a standard FAA ATC position? __________________ "Like sand through the hourglass, so are the days of our lives..."

June 27th, 2007, 19:51	#16
CampbellsChunkySoupra Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Norwalk, Iowa Posts: 84	Re: Need direction; some questions: majors, schools, gen. in once i get my motor put back in my car here tonight or tomorrow, ill be more into the "research mode" of things with this little deal. ill also be heading up to the des moines air port to talk with a few guys if i can. thanks so far guys! __________________ "Like sand through the hourglass, so are the days of our lives..."

June 28th, 2007, 17:08	#17
GalaxyIFE Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: San Antonio TX or anywhere Uncle Sugar wants me.... Posts: 776	Re: Need direction; some questions: majors, schools, gen. in I might be tooting my own horn, but the military is an excellent way to get the training you are looking for. The starting pay isn't great, but the reenlistment bonuses are very good (at least last time I looked) and the GI bill is worth about 39K for a $1,200 investment. I am working on my Master's degree now and so far, I haven't paid a DIME! Of course, there is no such thing as a free lunch, but they have treated me well considering. Just a thought if you REALLY want to be an ATC guy...and don't let the recruiter tell you otherwise, the DO have guaranteed jobs!

June 28th, 2007, 22:15	#18
rickyrhodesii Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Southwest Asia... Posts: 403	Re: Need direction; some questions: majors, schools, gen. in Galaxy is right on. I'm a few courses short of my degree and none of it came out of my pocket. I'm also using the MGIB to pay for 60% of my instrument rating and commercial. I can't tell you much about FAA pay, but here's a breakdown on my monthly pay: Base Pay (based on your rank) ~$2300 BAS (money for food) ~$280 BAH (money for housing if you live off base/post) Varies for each location Special Duty Pay (watch supervisor Pay, based on how long you've been a w/s) ~$225 Monthly total $2805, after taxes ~$2500 Annually ~$30,000 And don't forget the benefits that aren't included in your pay...free health and dental insurance, lodging, tax free retail store, use of numerous facilities (free or small charge) such as gyms, pools, golf courses, bowling alley and the list goes on... I'm happy and proud to say I'm also debt free! But like you've probably heard before, we (military) don't do it for the money. And in case you're wondering, no I'm not a recruiter! __________________ Rick

June 29th, 2007, 02:48	#19
CampbellsChunkySoupra Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Norwalk, Iowa Posts: 84	Re: Need direction; some questions: majors, schools, gen. in ok, so basically the military doesnt pay very well when it comes to ATC. is ATC a "full-time" position? what about the air national guard? [1weekend/month, etc.] and as far as guarenteed job goes with the military, do u get to pick where u go at all? i dont want to end up in montana being an ATC. id like to go somewhere in the south-ish. how often do ATC's get called up to go "over there?" i dont have a problem with deployment. -Tyler edit* i did some research in the ANG's website and it appears as if this is the degree that u speak of in the ANG: Airfield Management (1C0X1). i might look into that. __________________ "Like sand through the hourglass, so are the days of our lives..." Last edited by CampbellsChunkySoupra; June 29th, 2007 at 03:37.

July 5th, 2007, 18:03	#20
dheminger722 Newbie Join Date: May 2007 Location: Oklahoma City, OK Posts: 19	Re: Need direction; some questions: majors, schools, gen. in In this situation I wouldnt spend any money on getting a degree in a CTI approved school you can still apply for the "Off the street" applications and just get a degree in a field of your choice as a plan B incase you get washed out.. What I did was go to College for Computer Information Tech.. and I was accepted still to take the AT-SAT if this is the case why spend the money on a degree that you could loose your job in a matter of a second.. Always have a way out.. Good Luck

July 6th, 2007, 09:53	#21
icephalt24 Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 30	Re: Need direction; some questions: majors, schools, gen. in Having an out is always good especially in aviation, but you also have to weigh that against the percentage of OTS hires that don't wash out of OKC or their facility and fully check out in their facility which is about 25% vs 95% or more for CTI grads.

July 7th, 2007, 12:36	#23
Fox Xray ATC Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 401	Re: Need direction; some questions: majors, schools, gen. in Do not go into ATC for the money. That plan is just a sure fire way to fail, the money (at least in the past) used to be a nice benefit of a job that can be quite difficult at times. There are things going on in the background that I cannot discuss on an open board but things may be getting better for new hires soon, we'll have to see what happens. I tell people all the time, have a plan B career just in case, whether it's taking a local PD exam or applying to other Gov't agencies, aviation is one 9/11 away from a massive hiring freeze. In theory the FAA should be hiring good numbers for several years so I feel that anyone wanting to try the job has a good chance of being hired. Going into ATC via CTI or at least with aviation knowledge or experience will be a major plus in succeeding, especially if you are sent to a center. Where I work (center) we presently have several off the street hires and they are struggling. A few did not even make it out of the lab. The centers are getting tough... the traffic is at all time highs, staffing is way down and people are just tired... I have many more years to go and I'm feeling burned out. The CTI's also have the advantage of being hired into smaller facilities where they can get up too speed and gain experience and eventually transfer to another higher facility. The ATSAT off the street hires are being sent only to busy facilities and upon failure are being fired... where CTI's are sent to lower facilities upon failure. I do not know why this is and I am only becoming aware of this now... the union cannot do a lot since they are still on probation when this happens. If your heart is set on ATC and you do not want to go the military route (very good post Galaxy) then look into a CTI school, I think it gives you more options in ATC.

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