Terminal Area Spacing

[JDE]

Does each terminal area have different rules on spacing between aircraft? When we fly into some of the bigger airports, the spacing seems to be less than when we fly at our home airport...but maybe it's just our controllers...

[TonyWilliams]

certainly, the smaller the field, the less need for tight spacing.

3 miles is the minimum, unless there are high speed taxiways off the runway, then it's 2 1/2 miles.

of course, behind B757's and heavies, add more miles. I heard the A380 might be 8 to 10 miles !!!

[amorris311]

have fun with that during an evening rush.

[braunpilot]

What I don't get about spacing is that in areas like TPA or ORL they use all altitudes all the time. In places like STL they only use select altitudes. For instance, going in to a reliever airport in the STL area. If you are above 5,000 feet going into the area you are crossing at 5,000 feet when you are 20 miles outside of the STL approach airspace. Is this because they have radar from the 50's or because the controllers there are told not to use the airspace very efficently. It has got to cause more stress for all parties involved. I know flying for a 135 operation it is hard to understand why they do not utilize the airspace more effectively.

[JDE]

Originally Posted by TonyWilliams

certainly, the smaller the field, the less need for tight spacing.

3 miles is the minimum, unless there are high speed taxiways off the runway, then it's 2 1/2 miles.

of course, behind B757's and heavies, add more miles. I heard the A380 might be 8 to 10 miles !!!

That's good info, thanks!

Now, what about traffic on final vs. traffic ready to depart? It seems like I've been at some larger airports (FLL to be specific) and we were on about a mile or so final, and they cleared someone for takeoff on our runway. Not much room for error, but it works out fine. At the home airport however, it seems like if there is another plane anywhere close to landing, the controllers won't clear anyone for takeoff. It's frustrating when we have to hold short and wait on a C-150 on a 3 mile final. Of course I assume this is because of rules rather than controllers...just trying to get a picture of whats going on.

[TonyWilliams]

Originally Posted by JDE

At the home airport however, it seems like if there is another plane anywhere close to landing, the controllers won't clear anyone for takeoff. It's frustrating when we have to hold short and wait on a C-150 on a 3 mile final. Of course I assume this is because of rules rather than controllers...just trying to get a picture of whats going on.

That's not the rule book.... it's the comfort level and decision of the individual controller.

On the runway, ATC needs 3000 feet (and airborne) between two Cessna type planes, 4500 feet for twins, and 6000 feet for jets.

So, launching a Cessna with a Gulfstream on a 3 mile final is pushing it, but launching a Gulfstream with a Cessna on a 3 mile final is easy.

[JDE]

Originally Posted by TonyWilliams

That's not the rule book.... it's the comfort level and decision of the individual controller.

On the runway, ATC needs 3000 feet (and airborne) between two Cessna type planes, 4500 feet for twins, and 6000 feet for jets.

So, launching a Cessna with a Gulfstream on a 3 mile final is pushing it, but launching a Gulfstream with a Cessna on a 3 mile final is easy.

Gotcha, thanks.

[BajtheJino]

Originally Posted by braunpilot

What I don't get about spacing is that in areas like TPA or ORL they use all altitudes all the time. In places like STL they only use select altitudes. For instance, going in to a reliever airport in the STL area. If you are above 5,000 feet going into the area you are crossing at 5,000 feet when you are 20 miles outside of the STL approach airspace. Is this because they have radar from the 50's or because the controllers there are told not to use the airspace very efficently. It has got to cause more stress for all parties involved. I know flying for a 135 operation it is hard to understand why they do not utilize the airspace more effectively.

Coming into CPS from the south?...You have to look at the other airports in the area, what runways are in use and the departure or even the arrivals. Plus you have to look at the work load of some of the sectors and the amount of handoffs you would end up getting-increasing everyones work load.