Position and hold

[Soul Brotha']

To you guys/gals who navigate our airport/airways why do some airports allow pos&hold while others do not. A Cappy I was flying with told me it had to do with staffing issues. I do not know if that is even close to being right, but I was wondering. For some reason I thought back in March of 2006 the FAA stopped position and holds for safety reasons. It might be a silly question but was just wondering.

[meritflyer]

My understanding is it was a safety issue.

Certain airports have LOA that allow them to still call for P&H though.

[Cessnaflyer]

A tower controller told me here at MWH that they have to have two tower controllers working at the same time to issue that clearance. I haven't heard it though after the change.

[flyhigh]

Originally Posted by Soul Brotha'

For some reason I thought back in March of 2006 the FAA stopped position and holds for safety reasons.

they didnt stop it, just revised the procedures...a sup in fll said pilots dont like the changes too much because, especially at busy airports, they dont get to hear "cleared to land" sometimes until very short final

Article about changes

Basically...

Under the new rules, a local controller must exclusively be doing the work of the local control position to be able to issue TIPH instructions. If the local control position is combined with ground control or another non-local control position, TIPH cannot be conducted

In another change, when issuing TIPH instructions, controllers now must wait until the departing flight has started its takeoff roll to give landing clearance to flights arriving on the same runway. A controller can only issue landing instructions before the takeoff roll begins if the facility is using a safety logic system in full alert runway configuration.

Additionally, when a controller tells a pilot to taxi into position and hold, he must now tell that pilot about flights operating on intersecting runways. The controllers also have to inform the pilots operating the flights on the crossing runways about the flight waiting to depart. This has long been a technique used by tower controllers to ensure safe operations, but the new rules make it a requirement.

The final changes to TIPH procedures involve full-length and partial-length departures. If a departing aircraft enters a runway from a taxiway that does not feed the end of a runway, the ground controller now needs to communicate the entrance point, either on the flight progress strip or verbally, to the local controller. And using TIPH simultaneously on the same runway, which is possible if the planes use different runway entrances, is limited to daylight hours and staffing levels that allow for a local assist or local monitor position.

[PilotChip]

Agree with you all.

The posnhold procedure was re-evaluated and only certain airports, with an advantageous need, continue the procedure by local facility directive (LOA or what have you).

[Flybob37]

Santa Monica seems to Pos & Hold regularly.....

So, PilotChip...you're in the tower at EMT? I fly out of there.

[PilotChip]

My guess is that SMO has some increased traffic and a majority of professional pilots. In that case, Posnhold could be warranted. I believe it is partially the air traffic manager's decision whether to keep it or not.

Yes I am, PM for info if you'd like.

[BuickCFI]

KGFK uses it daily