how to over come the radios...

[Stapp0770]

hey all, im a student pilot working on my PPL. I have a question for the ATC here. My big problem thats holding me back is the communication on the radios. I dont want to say anything wrong, or get yelled at, miss understand and end up pissing them off. This is partly why i haven't done my solo cross countries. So is there a trick or a way to just get comfortable?? By the way my airport is towerless, so i dont get to practice it every day. I know people thinks its all easy, but for instance today, me and my instructor went to PSC, to do some touch and goes and it was a little busy. So the ATC puts us in a downwind for 21L, all is good, but i remember this guys voice from before and last time he was a complete a$$ torwards us. Anyways our radio cut up as he said our tail number, and he began to freak out, sayin 33E, you really need to pay attention, if you cant get out of my pattern, ok, did we miss a call or something, i didnt hear anything. so my instructor keys up and says sorry, we got a student pilot here and hes just trying to learn. The ATC keys up and says i quote "ughhhhh", now was that necessary. So he says he will call out base, and leaves us 3 miles out till we call up, and then plays it like he forgot. This is a prime example of why the radios make me so nervous. I know i need to "take the skirt off" but its just hard. any help is welcomed

Tommy

[juxtapilot]

I think you just need to practice... You might try flight simulator. Online flying via VATSIM (www.vatsim.net) helped me a ton. You could also put something in the remarks section of your flight plan such as "Student Pilot." A good way to get the practice you need is to get flight following during the cross countries.

You seriously do NOT need to worry about screwing up but you must make sure you understand what they are saying. ATC's are nice people. Sounding scared or messing up the lingo isn't a matter of life and death. Pretending to understand what they are saying could be.

"The ATC keys up and says i quote "ughhhhh", " -- Yes some ATC's get annoyed with student pilots. They still will help you safely conduct your flight though. Don't feel bad if you get an "ughhh." You are learning. Gotta start somewhere right?

[Doug Taylor]

I always had 'stage fright' when speaking on the radio in the early days. I know what helped me a lot is visiting a control tower. They're just regular people like the rest of us and aren't going to bite your head off for saying the 'wrong' thing.

I guess it's a lot like having a conversation on an internet forum. There are always going to be people that want to bite your head off for saying "...rosebud..." but a majority of the people don't and once you throw out the "Lion International Tower, Cessna 28CL, student pilot fifteen south for a touch-and-go" they'll more than likely exercise a little extra patience.

Just remember your target audience. Don't try flying under the Class B 10 miles out of ATL at 3pm asking for flight following to Peachtree-Dekalb.

Start slow. Ask your instructor LOTS of question and try to listen to ATC online or get a scanner.

[jml2992]

Practice in the shower! Overcome the urge to sing Justin Timberlake songs and just imagine yourself outside of class bravo. What are you going to say? What frequency do you transmit on? Position and Type? Ten minutes a day saves you a lot of work when you get to your instrument training. I still write the CRAFT the way John and Martha taught me (without the embarrassing guidance letters.) Get used to listening to long radio calls and remember...selective hearing is a must. I can remember as a private pilot, answering ATC for landing clearances that weren't my own. Takes a little practice but definitiely practice and get a ground radio.

[Stapp0770]

thanks, ill work on it.much appreciated. I'm off to Las Vegas tomarrow for the weekend. I love allegiant 49 dollars

[Crockrocket94]

I used to write everything down before I said anything over the radios. Granted I have done about 99% of my training in controlled airports, but the point is I always saw what I was going to say before I said it.

My instructors always had me say what I intended to say before I keyed it up.

Also, it is perfectly normal to mess up on the radios... I remember I always forgot what to say, especially regarding positions and destinations in the early days when I first started getting VFR Flight Following.

Also there are some ATC Communication DVDs floating around out there. I suggest looking for one of those!

[SkyKing]

The key to overcoming radio fear is to remember that all transactions are of a predefined format. Once you learn what to expect, you will start understanding much better.

All of your radio calls are always of the form

1. Who you are calling
2. Who you are
3. Where you are
4. What is your request.

For example, Executive tower, Skyhawk 1234X, 10 miles south, inbound to land with Victor. Or County traffic, Skyhawk 1234X, 10 miles north, will join 45 right downwind 18.

When you make an initial call to a tower as in the above example you can ususally expect a pattern entry instruction, such as, Skyhawk 1234X Enter left base RWY 27, report 3 miles base. When you report the base you can ususally expect a landing clearance.

Have your instructor go over most common radio scenarios with you on the ground. This way when you encounter those in the plane you already know what to expect.

Let us know how it went.

[nwpac]

I used to listen to that website "liveatc.net" (think that's the address). There are aproach as well as tower freq's on that site and you can practice repeating back clearances in your living room. Somebody mentioned going to the tower and meeting the controllers....it's a good idea....they are just people too and most are really helpful. Good luck!

[OldTownPilot]

I think the biggest thing is practice....and knowing what you want to say.

The plane I am flying at is at a class C field right now. I have to talk to ATC everytime I go flying. Before you key the mic, know what you want to say. the second part to that is to predict what ATC is going to say to you. I did my second solo at BGR (the class C field) and out of the 4 patterns I did 2 were "non-standard". I expected a non-standard pattern for both of them.

Another thing that has helped is that my instructor has been a stickler for brief and professional radio calls from the begining.

[barnstormer09]

Originally Posted by jml2992

Practice in the shower! Overcome the urge to sing Justin Timberlake songs and just imagine yourself outside of class bravo. What are you going to say? What frequency do you transmit on? Position and Type? Ten minutes a day saves you a lot of work when you get to your instrument training. I still write the CRAFT the way John and Martha taught me (without the embarrassing guidance letters.)

I practiced in my car when I was commuting by using mile markers and signs as position reports.

Some controllers are just jerks regardless (that one you mentioned in particular.) Some seem to make it a sport to mess with student pilots as much as possible (kind of like a lot of people do when they see a Drivers Education car, right?)

If at all possible, try to learn the busy times and stay away during those times. For example, I once tried to do 5 stop and go's during a freight run, so I was sequenced, forced to do 360 turns in the pattern, and constantly sent for go-arounds because they put a beech 1900D on a 4 mile final behind me and seemed surprised when it caught up. If you want priority, make the effort to go when their workload is light and they will be more willing to work with you. You can usually get their number from a local FSS, AFD, or maybe even airnav.com


Also, like someone mentioned before, if you have an instructor (or even if you're solo) you can say your bit aloud before keying the mike. You get the immediate feedback and that way can tweak it if something's off.

I found it is very helpful to write down what I am going to say before initial contact as well as to write down as much information as they give me so if I get flustered and all else fails, I can just read it back without having to think about it.

Don't worry about embarassing yourself. They will forget you as soon as you're out of their jurisdiction. I'm a commercial pilot and I still say "student" when inbound to towers!! And if you do mess up, they are sometimes annoyed, but usually can accomodate you, I've never had a tower call me up on a subsequent visit and say something like, "You're the one who turned LEFT traffic instead of RIGHT traffic for 21! You suck!"

[JaceTheAce]

Have your instructor give you random ATC instructions and tell you to create your own requests to ATC, then go back and forth verbally with your instructor simulating the ATC conversation.

When I first started training in the IFR environment, I was a bit scared on the radios for the first two lessons, but I quickly adjusted. You just have to think that the other person on the other end is only a human. He's not some big bad person judging what you say on the radios.

I'd recommend this book if you're having trouble on the radios. A few years ago I checked it out from the local public library. They had a LOT of aviation training books for some reason.

$13 from amazon.com: http://www.amazon.com/Say-Again-Plea...5197437&sr=1-1


And it looks like there's an audio version too, but it's expensive:
http://www.mypilotstore.com/MyPilotS...rmv=1&ctn=afd1

[PanJet]

Originally Posted by jml2992

...selective hearing is a must.

For the most part I have very good selective hearing. However once my selective hearing shut down for a day (not the best day ever), and it was just crazy how many calls I missed that day.

I know it's hard, and this sounds weird, but don't ever be personally offended if a controller gets on your case. They're human, they have rough days too. Nobody likes to be yelled at, but the best thing to do is just brush it off and move on.

On a side note, I'm surprised you got it from a PSC controller. I've always liked them. Of course, like I said, everyone has a bad day. A couple of months ago they helped one of my stranded student pilots find his way to PSC after weather slammed in here at ALW. If you get a chance, fly to GEG sometime. Those guys are very friendly, helpful, and efficient so far as I've found.

[Milesar]

Originally Posted by JaceTheAce

I'd recommend this book if you're having trouble on the radios.

I second that Jace, I keep a copy with me and its great reading, including some good examples of the different airspace communication procedures.

Some really awesome ideas here (I should write some down!)

Its better to say something, then nothing at all!

[Stapp0770]

thanks for all the help, yea i guess there has been a problem at the tower here with a controller, i hope its him because its happened to others too. but posibly he was jsut ahving a bad day. thanks again..

Tommy

[Niuflyer22]

A piece of advice that one of my flight instructors gave me was to always anticipate what the contoller was going to tell you. When I first started flying, I found that a lot of the time it seemed like the controller was talking really fast and I was worried that I might miss something important. I found that if I anticipated what the controller would say that it would help me to understand more easily.

I also had a template for various ATC call ups (taxi, take off, approach, etc.) I could just read what was on the card and fill in my tail number, and location. This made talking to ATC a lot easier for me as well.

[Chris_Ford]

One thing I always did with my students right before their solo (maybe it was cross country, I forget) was to go to a class D that's not very busy, then ask the controller to throw anything and everything he could at us. Then I'd sit there with an evil grin on my face, fold my hands up on my lap and say "I'm your passenger now. I know nothing about airplanes. I won't step in until we're about to die. Don't let it get to that point."

Almost instantly most of them would turn pale white.

Then we'd do one trip in the pattern. Inevitably tower would call for a go around at 10-20 feet. Then a right pattern and extend upwind. Then "make a short approach" and bam. That was it. That's pretty much all they can do to you. Once my students recognized that there's not too much that ATC can/will/wants to do with you, they get over that "fear" pretty quick. Yep, you'll stumble. Yep, you'll look like an idiot sometimes. Even airline pilots do (as I've heard quite a bit recently on my channel 9 escapades). We're all human, nobody expects perfection, and that "student pilot" tag at the end of your radio call will give you a little bit more leeway with controllers... but you still have to know your stuff.

[rvatornate]

Another thing to consider is the quality of the headset you are using. I had a student recently who was feeling the same as you. He was concentrating so hard on trying to hear/understand the controller, his flying was suffering. One lesson, I had him try my Lightspeed ANR's instead of his used/abused DC's, it was amazing the difference in his confidence on the radio. We talked about it later, he said it was the first time he completely understood what the controllers were saying, so responding to them was much easier...no guessing. So once the issues with the radio were gone, the flying improved also. He ordered a set of Lightspeeds the next day.

[TheOneMarine]

The day will come when a controller gets your butt out of a hairy situation or hekos you out more than he really has to and thats really when you'll realize that they're not out to get you. For me, I was VFR in a PA28 comming from Indy back to FL. Was just getting past the mountains in northern GA when a ceiling began to form at 3000 while the MORA was 3500. The center controller went out of his way to find me the lowest possible MORA grids and guide me away from obstructions. Since then I've never felt uncomfortable about ATC and have a big appreciation and tons of respect for what they do for us as pilots. In short, take a LONG cross-country with flight following all the way.

[Fox Xray]

Originally Posted by Stapp0770

thanks for all the help, yea i guess there has been a problem at the tower here with a controller, i hope its him because its happened to others too. but posibly he was jsut ahving a bad day. thanks again..

Tommy

Stapp0770 ... don't sweat it... I yell at ALL pilots... LOL.

J/K

First, don't take it personal because it's not. All day long we're dealing with pilots, other controllers, supervisors, etc. It can be aggravating... at times we take it out on someone who may, or most likely may not deserve it. Things are not good behind the scopes right now, matter of fact they are very bad. From the start of a shift to the end we are battling with management over something. The latest gem in my facility was denying a ton of Memorial day leave and assigning a ton of voluntary (see mandatory) OT.

You're starting out... you're not going to be perfect... don't worry. The guy flying the 747 across the Atlantic started out just like you and I will assure you it took time to get get used to talking on the frequency.

If this tower is at an airport you frequent then try and get a tour. See what things are like on their side, talk to the controllers... ask questions. What's the best way to check in ? What should I do when doing this ? I do that... back when we could FAM on commercial flights I would have a ton of questions for the pilots... do you prefer a vector or alt change ? Speed restriction or lower altitude ? I learned a lot... we are all always learning.

Keeping getting on the mic... you'll get better. Get flight following whenever you can, that's good practice.

Good luck... sorry it took me a while to get on here, I was busy working that voluntary OT.

Take Care

[calcapt]

One thing that really helped me in the early days was thinking about my environment and trying to understand in a simple manner what I was about to say or ask for. In other words, if what I was about to say was clearly understood by me and made sense to me, I would usually have no trouble saying the right thing. Too many times we are taught to say things by rote memorization, not really understanding what we are saying or asking for. And if we are asked to clarify what it was we just said, we often freeze not knowing what more to say, other than what we just said. This sounds silly and overly simplistic, but if you think about where you are, what you are doing and what you want to convey before you talk, you will sound like a pro on the radio in no time.

[jtrain609]

You know why you shouldn't be worried about the radio?

Because ATC will probably say just as many stupid things as you, especially if they're trying to put a real hack job of a clearance together as I was reminded about the othernight. I got a reroute and thought to myself, "Huh...I know where she's taking me and why, but this is a COMPLETE hack job and wasn't phrased even close to being correct."

It happens, there are humans on both sides of the radio.

[pilotnate23]

Just remember you're talking to another human! I'll echo what others said here: it takes practice. Also, go to all of the websites that offer streaming broadcasts of ATC frequencies or a scanner and just listen. That's what I did when I was learning and I found it helped tremendously!

[dbrault17]

Its all about practice man. Listen on the internet like Liveatc.com(?) and youll start to realize that THEY SAY THE SAME THING just at different times and situations. Once you pick that up youll be able to anticipate what they say and be ready for it.

[Maurus]

Something that got me getting better on the radio is going to a small Class C or even a Class D airport that has radar available. Usually controllers at smaller airports air a bit more lenient and easier to talk to. The ATC around me have been known to make smalltalk with some pilots they know on the radio when it isn't busy. This makes the environment on the radio a little more relaxing for a student, at least it was for me.

When flying at a busy airport you just cause congestion for the larger aircraft and ATC can get a little impatient. It is just something you have to shrug off unless you make a big mistake like turning 180 degrees after take-off into possible departing traffic (yes it has happened at CAK).

If you get your Instrument Rating, you will fine tune your ATC skills while flying as you will be talking with ATC on a majority of your flights.