descend via vs.. cleared via

[B767]

What is the difference between descend via STARR1 arrival vs. cleared via STARR1 arrival? Descend via means you descend with the altitudes and cleared via means you fly the waypoints but maintain your current alt or whatever alt you were cleared to?

[DE727UPS]

My take? Descend via is how they would normally say it. If they said "cleared via", without mentioning descend, on an arrival that had mandatory crossing altitudes, I'd be sure to ask twice.

[ghogue]

Originally Posted by B767

What is the difference between descend via STARR1 arrival vs. cleared via STARR1 arrival? Descend via means you descend with the altitudes and cleared via means you fly the waypoints but maintain your current alt or whatever alt you were cleared to?

Correct. "cleared via STARR1" is just part of of the ATC clearance in regards to your assigned routing. When ATC is ready for you to descend via the mandatory altitudes, they will state "descend via STARR1". The altitudes are not mandatory until you are cleared for them.

[zmiller4]

Originally Posted by DE727UPS

My take? Descend via is how they would normally say it. If they said "cleared via", without mentioning descend, on an arrival that had mandatory crossing altitudes, I'd be sure to ask twice.

Let's say you're going into LA, and for some reason they switch you from the SEAVU to the CIVET arrival--they'd say "cleared to LAX via the CIVET5 arival, maintain 360" (or whatever--they should give you an altitude to maintain). You're definately *not* cleared to descend until they give you a descent clearance--either "descend and maintain XXX" or "descend via the XXXXX arrival". If they just clear you via an arrival (not descend) and the arrival has crossing restrictions, you want to be on top of your descent planning in case they forget about you.

[Jason]

Just out of curiosity - why is it that controllers on the west coast use the 'descend via' clearance and the controllers on the east coast don't? I've never had one on the right side but got them on every trip to the left side....just wondering if there was some underlying reason? Traffic congestion??


Jason

[ghogue]

Originally Posted by Jason

Just out of curiosity - why is it that controllers on the west coast use the 'descend via' clearance and the controllers on the east coast don't? I've never had one on the right side but got them on every trip to the left side....just wondering if there was some underlying reason? Traffic congestion??


Jason

Not all STARs can be used with a "descend via" clearance. Every procedure I've flown with a "descent via" clearance had a note on the chart stating "NOTE: Maintain last assigned altitude until cleared to "Descend via the XXXXXX arrival""

From the 7110.65R (Controllers Manual)

2. A descend via clearance shall not be used where procedures contain published “expect” altitude restrictions.

It's not just the West Coast. KIAD has the BARIN ONE arrival that uses "Descend Via".

[casey]

Originally Posted by Jason

Just out of curiosity - why is it that controllers on the west coast use the 'descend via' clearance and the controllers on the east coast don't?

They do have a couple in the east, the DYLIN2 into EWR is one of them.

[Jason]

Thanks for the info.....as much as I've been into EWR and especially IAD I've never had either one of those arrivals.

Jason

[EDUC8-or]

Originally Posted by Jason

Just out of curiosity - why is it that controllers on the west coast use the 'descend via' clearance and the controllers on the east coast don't? I've never had one on the right side but got them on every trip to the left side....just wondering if there was some underlying reason? Traffic congestion??


Jason

As another user said, ATC will give you the "descend via" on the DYLIN into EWR and also on the KORRY into LGA.