An early turn?

[Ian J]

Was taking off from St. Petersburg today (PIE) IFR, and my clearance stated the following:

Cleared to the Leesburg Airport via radar vectors; join Victor 152 to JENSN intersection then direct Lessburg. Fly heading 270 after departure. Climb and maintain 1600. Expect 5000 10 minutes after departure. Departure on xxx.x, squak xxxx.

So I took off, and at 700 AGL I turned right to 270.

In a bit I was handed off to departure, but was told I made an "early turn" and that the turn was too early regardless of my altitude. I was just entering the soup and didn't feel like arguing so I just acknowledged and switched to departure.

I checked to see if there were any special deparure procedures, and no, there were none.

So what the heck is an "early turn?" and what did I do wrong?

[Dugie8]

I'm thinking the controller either thought you were on the PIE2 departure or you were cleared for it and didn't realize it. There are DME distances to get to before turning, depending on the runway.

I say that because the PIE2 has 1600 for an altitude and you were cleared to 1600 expect XXXX.

[Ian J]

Good point, but I certaintly wasn't assigned a DP. That clearance I typed above was verbatim what they gave me.

(You going to the M&G tomorrow?)

[Dugie8]

Controller may have thought you were on the DP and saw you turn before the DME arc(s) and simply brought it to your attention, no harm no foul.


(I hope to, checkride starts at 4, hoping to be done by 4:45 )

[tgrayson]

Originally Posted by ChinookDriver

So what the heck is an "early turn?" and what did I do wrong?

Call 'em up on the telephone and ask them. Flight Service can give you the phone number if you can't find it.

[casey]

is there an obstacle DP for that runway?

[Mike734]

If you were told to turn to a heading after T. O. then you can start the turn anytime you want. Most people think 400 is a good altitude to make the turn. There may be some noise abatement procedures you should have followed but departure control should be less concerned with that than the local controller.

BTW some departures requires an immediate turn. We have special departure in Juneau AK that requires a 30 degree bank turn before reaching the end of the runway so we usually start it at about 50 feet. It does require special training however.

[Fox Xray]

I think the early posters hit the nail on the head in this post... the departure controller was most likely showing different routing then you were cleared on. It happens more often then you think.

I was involved in an incident sometime ago because of showing something different then the pilot had. A/C was level and I was showing routing straight down the airway. Well... about 6 sectors earlier he requested a change of destination. The controller cleared the A/C but never got the new routing into the computer... half way through my sector he makes a hard right at a fix and is now head on with another A/C at 10K... I noticed him make the turn and cranked him and the other A/C away from each other. Neither A/C had TCAS either... Tapes were pulled and the cause was discovered... I felt bad that it was another controller that would be charged with the error BUT as it turned out it was a supervisor getting his monthly currency time that caused the error...

In your case if something happened or if the controller pushed the issue you would have been clean... you flew what you were cleared via.

[tgrayson]

Originally Posted by Mike734

IMost people think 400 is a good altitude to make the turn.

That's because the Flight Procedures people who survey the airport for IFR departures assume that an aircraft will not turn below 400 AGL. If you do, all bets are off as to whether you can maintain obstacle clearances.

[meritflyer]

Originally Posted by Mike734

Most people think 400 is a good altitude to make the turn.

Obstacle Clearance Surface (OCS) (40:1) sets the standard for obstacle clearance during a DP. If obstacles penetrate a slope of 152 FPNM, beginning no higher than 35 feet above the airport, the minimums may be changed or specified climb gradients may be specified for the DP. All DPs are designed with assuming the pilot crossing 35 feet above the departure end of the runway elevation maintaining a climb rate of 200 FPNM, and climbing 400 feet above the airport elevation within 2 NM before reaching a point where a turn is required.

Read IPH p. 2-12. It has some great info in it.

[Ian J]

Originally Posted by Fox Xray

I think the early posters hit the nail on the head in this post... the departure controller was most likely showing different routing then you were cleared on. It happens more often then you think.

I was involved in an incident sometime ago because of showing something different then the pilot had. A/C was level and I was showing routing straight down the airway. Well... about 6 sectors earlier he requested a change of destination. The controller cleared the A/C but never got the new routing into the computer... half way through my sector he makes a hard right at a fix and is now head on with another A/C at 10K... I noticed him make the turn and cranked him and the other A/C away from each other. Neither A/C had TCAS either... Tapes were pulled and the cause was discovered... I felt bad that it was another controller that would be charged with the error BUT as it turned out it was a supervisor getting his monthly currency time that caused the error...

In your case if something happened or if the controller pushed the issue you would have been clean... you flew what you were cleared via.

That's probably it... thanks. No DP at all for the airport.