You wanna do what???

[desertdog71]

http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory...E/AC61-67C.pdf

The AC clearly says ANY certificate or rating.

[desertdog71]

14CFR 91.307 (d)(2) also says ANY rating.

[bradj2000]

Originally Posted by mtsu_av8er

Driving, too. And walking down the street. And flying ILS approaches. And sleeping. And boating. And skateboarding. And lighting a grill. And installing satellite dishes.

I've lost friends doing all of the above. Most are still fun to me!

I'm glad I'm not a friend of yours, sounds like you're a jinx.

[bike21]

Oh man, I said I would give up but the AC also says this...

"The flight training required by part 61 does not entail the actual practicing of spins for other than flight instructor-airplane and flight instructor-glider applicants, but emphasizes stall and spin avoidance."

Is it just me or does that say CFI training only? Perhaps I am taking crazy pills?

[meritflyer]

Originally Posted by desertdog71

The AC clearly says ANY certificate or rating.

pwnd

[desertdog71]

Here you go....you be the lawyer, judge, whatever. I say its fine for any rating.


301. SPIN TRAINING AND PARACHUTES.

Part 91, section 91.307(c), prohibits the pilot of a civil aircraft from executing any intentional maneuver that exceeds 60° of bank relative to the horizon, or exceeds 30° noseup or nosedown attitude relative to the horizon, unless an approved parachute is worn by each occupant (other than a crewmember). Section 91.307(d) states, in pertinent part, that section 91.307(c) does not apply to flight tests for a pilot certificate or rating; or spins and other flight maneuvers required by the regulations for any certificate or rating when given by a certified flight instructor (CFI) or an airline transport pilot (ATP) instructing in accordance with section 61.167.

a.

Section 61.183(i) requires an applicant for a flight instructor certificate or rating to receive flight training in stall awareness, spin entry, spins, and spin recovery procedures. The applicant must also possess and demonstrate instructional proficiency in these areas to receive the certificate or rating.

b.

Because spin entry, spins, and spin recovery are required for a flight instructor certificate or rating, a person receiving instruction from a CFI (or an ATP instructing in accordance with section 61.167) need not wear an approved parachute while instruction is being provided in these maneuvers. This provision applies regardless of the certificate or rating for which the person is receiving training and also if the person is receiving instruction that is not being provided for the purpose of obtaining any additional certificate or rating. The instructor providing the training is also not required to wear an approved parachute while providing this flight training.

c.

Additionally, it should be noted that any pilot or required crewmember may perform a maneuver that exceeds the limits prescribed in section 91.307(c) without wearing an approved parachute, provided there are no other occupants in the aircraft or the other occupants are wearing approved parachutes.

[bike21]

Originally Posted by meritflyer

pwnd

I don't think so and here is why. I don't think I made this clear before...

The AC does indeed say for any rating or certificate I do agree with that. However it also says for any rating or certificate that requires spin training. The CFI is the only certificate that requires actual spin training. The rest only require spin awareness training. Otherwise we would likely still have spin training in all PPL, IRA, COMM and syallabi.

You gotta read careful and see the intent of the rule. It sucks we have to do this, and have these debates. It would be nice if the legalese did it's job and made it clear. Until I see plain language that says it is legal for a CFI to go spin with any student or checkout pilot, I am sticking to my guns for now.

[desertdog71]

Originally Posted by bike21

I don't think so and here is why. I don't think I made this clear before...

The AC does indeed say for any rating or certificate I do agree with that. However it also says for any rating or certificate that requires spin training. The CFI is the only certificate that requires actual spin training. The rest only require spin awareness training. Otherwise we would likely still have spin training in all PPL, IRA, COMM and syallabi.

You gotta read careful and see the intent of the rule. It sucks we have to do this, and have these debates. It would be nice if the legalese did it's job and made it clear. Until I see plain language that says it is legal for a CFI to go spin with any student or checkout pilot, I am sticking to my guns for now.

I highligted it for you.

[desertdog71]

The intent of the rule is that you need not be doing these maneuvers with passengers, and that you may only do these maneuvers by yourself if properly trained or for the purpose of giving instruction. That is how I read the rule.

Your opinion may vary.

[meritflyer]

Who cares?

Its Thanksgiving. Drink up!