|
November 13th, 2006, 19:14
| #1 |
| Old Skool  Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: All up in Cantubury, tellin' tales.
Posts: 4,444
 |  !&#$'n EWR!! Ok, afternoon delays trying to get to Newark are epidemic. I know LaGuardia and JFK are no exception, but it seems like Newark is worse than the other two. I've always been under the impression that it's simply a volume issue, exacerbated by any winds and weather, but the explanations on some days, (particulary those in which the entire eastern seaboard is calm and severe clear) don't seem to add up. Even LAX and ORD don't seem to have the trouble we do. ATC gurus, can you give us a few words about EWR/LGA/JFK? Do I just need to have a Coke, a smile and shut the hell up, or are there other problems at play up here? |
|
|
November 14th, 2006, 08:34
| #2 |
| Old Skool  Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 2,966
| Re: !&#$'n EWR!! Can't speak for ATC, but I can say that passenger fares on shorter-notice flights (7 to 11 days) are noticeably lower into EWR than LGA or JFK. A lot more business people fly into EWR as a result, because NY is still accessible that way. |
|
|
|
November 15th, 2006, 11:10
| #3 |
| Senior Member  Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: DXR, Connecticut
Posts: 1,154
| Re: !&#$'n EWR!! PHL takes the cake though...
__________________ CFI/CFII/MEI ATP, SF340 |
|
|
|
November 15th, 2006, 11:46
| #4 |
| Old Skool  Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: NC
Posts: 2,147
| Re: !&#$'n EWR!! Many of the issues stem from having LGA and JFK so close. Sequencing arrivals and departures into those three very busy airports with such a close proximity has to be a headache. I'm not so sure about LAX, but ORD only has MDW that's nearby and those two airports are further apart than EWR-LGA or LGA-JFK.
__________________ Listen To My Acoustic Demo@www.myspace.com/thesenachosaregood Watch Us Play Live@www.youtube.com/TheseNachosLive |
|
|
|
November 15th, 2006, 12:06
| #5 |
| Old Skool  Join Date: May 2006 Location: Virginia is for Lovers, yacht chasing on the weekends
Posts: 1,774
| Re: !&#$'n EWR!! Talk to the people at the airlines that make the flight schedules. Despite the fact that even a mildly literate individual could look at the FAA's traffic command center website and find the maximum arrivals/departures per hour under ideal conditions, the airlines continue to schedule more flights than the airport can handle. Who designed the hub and spoke system? Go smack them too. |
|
|
|
November 17th, 2006, 22:25
| #6 | |
| Old Skool  Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Alpha Tango Lima
Posts: 8,656
| Re: !&#$'n EWR!! Quote:
 Exactly. . . Airline schedules do not help system capacity, only makes it worse. Not the FAA's fault, or any specific facility's fault. . . they just take what is given to them, and since the FAA has no balls to restrict airline's schedules this is only going to continue to get worse. | |
|
|
|
November 18th, 2006, 10:39
| #7 |
| Old Skool  | Re: !&#$'n EWR!! When I come in for my night shift at 8:30 and the 2:30 flight is taking off as I drive across the end of the runway......EWR SUCKS
__________________ As a wise man said, sumb!tch flew in, sumb!tch'll fly out. Ski Hard. Party Harder. |
|
|
|
November 18th, 2006, 11:48
| #8 | ||
| Old Skool Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: _
Posts: 5,182
| Re: !&#$'n EWR!! Quote:
Quote:
Hub and spoke has long been known as the most efficeint way to move the maximum amount cargo (either self loading or freight) from A to B. I doubt many people fly from Bangor, ME to Jacksonville, NC but using the hub and spoke system an airline/package company can serve both those destinations. It actually makes a lot of sense, even SWA uses a mini hub and spoke system. It just needs better implementation at this point. | ||
|
|
|
November 18th, 2006, 17:05
| #9 |
| Old Skool  Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: KPHX, KFFZ, KIWA
Posts: 18,677
   | Re: !&#$'n EWR!! Maybe what they can do to relieve stress is have flights leaving/arriving out of hubs at off peak times as well as pushes. I see traffic here in PHX only leave in pushes. I'd think having off peak and peak arrivals/departures might open up the system more then only having peak arrival & departures. This from an atc novice so take at face value! |
|
|
|
November 18th, 2006, 19:23
| #10 | |
| Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Somewhere
Posts: 624
| Re: !&#$'n EWR!! Quote:
The whole idea of the hub is that a bank of flights comes in from all over the place - people scurry from plane to plane in 30 minutes and then a bank of flights leaves to all those places. That's what lets people travel from Burlington, VT to Jacksonville, NC with either the same ease or the same frustration (depending on your point of view) as travelling from Boston to Atlanta. If your planes arrive from all over the place on some inter-leaved schedule with the planes leaving inter-leaved between, people arriving from Burlington might find the next flight to Jacksonville leaves in 4 hours - and leaving aside the marketing aspects of that, having those people clutter up the airport is just untidy. Never forget (as many airlines seem to do) that this is a service industry. Our priority is NOT the operation of aircraft, our priority is the transport of people. | |
|
|
|
November 18th, 2006, 22:19
| #11 |
| Junior Member  Join Date: May 2005 Location: New York
Posts: 100
| Re: !&#$'n EWR!! EWR is busier than JFK and LGA combined....EWR has only one departure and one arrival runway...with the occasional 11/29 arrival from XJT, hence your delays.... |
|
|
|
November 18th, 2006, 23:11
| #12 | ||
| Old Skool Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: _
Posts: 5,182
| Re: !&#$'n EWR!! Quote:
Quote:
I don't know how it's working for them but the idea has promise - aside from the sarcastic remarks CFIse made (maybe he is upset he is the one sitting for 4 hours!) I think it could be handled in a way to not allow for pax to sit around for a long time. BUT, airplanes only make money when they are flying so having aircraft wait on the ground as well isn't such a good idea either. Obviously the congestion problem is the pesky 50 seat RJ's. Trade those suckers in for the 90 seat versions and reduce frequency! And if you work for Doug Parker "the days of flying bigger airplanes for more pay" are over baby!  Sweet!!! | ||
|
|
|
November 19th, 2006, 01:05
| #13 |
| Agent Smith  | Re: !&#$'n EWR!! Most airlines have a hub-and-spoke system to a certain extent.
__________________ Doug Taylor http://76school.flyblog.com (old!) http://30west.flyblog.com (updated 11/28) |
|
|
|
November 19th, 2006, 01:08
| #14 | |
| Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: KPHX, KFFZ, KIWA
Posts: 18,677
| Re: !&#$'n EWR!! Quote:
| |
|
|
|
November 19th, 2006, 07:58
| #15 | |
| Old Skool  Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 3,679
| Re: !&#$'n EWR!! Quote:
__________________ -Paul It ain't always 65 and sunny | |
|
|
|
November 19th, 2006, 08:09
| #16 | |
| Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Somewhere
Posts: 624
| Re: !&#$'n EWR!! Quote:
Obviously we could solve a WHOLE lot of problems by upping the capacity of each plane and reducing the frequency. So let's say once a month we run a 747 in and out of Burlington, VT, that should take care of everything. Behind price the second thing people look at it is departure time. That's why everybody leaves at 6:00AM out of bum-f!*k, KY. The flight that's scheduled to leave at 6:01AM doesn't get picked by people shopping on www.whatsthecheapestticketIcanbuy.com. So frequency is king. Seriously - operating airlines would be a whole lot easier without the pesky customers and their stupid wants and desires. However - while there are airlines out there who do want to serve customers everybody else is going to get dragged kicking and screaming into the same position. Eventually it all gets too much and the government gets involved. And of course that's always a thundering success whenever that happens. | |
|
|
|
November 20th, 2006, 19:19
| #17 | |
| Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: DXR, Connecticut
Posts: 1,154
| Re: !&#$'n EWR!! Quote:
__________________ CFI/CFII/MEI ATP, SF340 | |
|
|
|
November 20th, 2006, 19:48
| #18 | |
| Old Skool Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 3,679
| Re: !&#$'n EWR!! Quote:
__________________ -Paul It ain't always 65 and sunny | |
|
|
|
November 21st, 2006, 22:49
| #19 | |
| Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: DXR, Connecticut
Posts: 1,154
| Re: !&#$'n EWR!! Quote:
__________________ CFI/CFII/MEI ATP, SF340 | |
|
|
|
November 22nd, 2006, 00:05
| #20 |
| Junior Member  Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Florence, KY
Posts: 93
| Re: !&#$'n EWR!! I've heard that EWR is notorious from alot of places. I feel sorry for those Continental pilots here at DAB. Almost every afternoon, I hear tower telling them "Newark just issued a hold...hold on the ramp..." I remember one night we went out on a night flight, and a Continental 737 was taxiing out, and they got the same call... tower told them they might as well shut down at the end of the runway, it's gonna be a while. We got back two hours later, they were still sitting there. |
|
|
|
November 22nd, 2006, 07:23
| #21 | |
| Old Skool Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: NC
Posts: 2,147
| Re: !&#$'n EWR!! Quote:
__________________ Listen To My Acoustic Demo@www.myspace.com/thesenachosaregood Watch Us Play Live@www.youtube.com/TheseNachosLive | |
|
|
|
November 22nd, 2006, 13:56
| #22 | |
| Old Skool Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 3,679
| Re: !&#$'n EWR!! Quote:
__________________ -Paul It ain't always 65 and sunny | |
|
|
|
November 24th, 2006, 13:38
| #23 | ||
| Old Skool Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: _
Posts: 5,182
| Re: !&#$'n EWR!! Quote:
Quote:
I'd bet $$ that if people could leave 2 hours later but get in at the same time, they will chose the flight that leaves 2 hours later (especially for those 6 AM depatures). | ||
|
|
|
November 24th, 2006, 14:04
| #24 | |
| Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: KPHX, KFFZ, KIWA
Posts: 18,677
| Re: !&#$'n EWR!! Quote:
 | |
|
|
|
November 24th, 2006, 15:40
| #25 | |
| Senior Member  Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Let me look, I forgot.
Posts: 637
| Re: !&#$'n EWR!! Quote:
| |
|
|
 |
| Thread Tools | |
| Display Modes | |
| |
Linear Mode
