What would you say...

[Maximillian_Jenius]

So at the Vegas NJC tower tour while in the cab I hear this:

"Cactus #1176 maintain visual seperation runway 07R clear for takeoff,contact departure control 125.08."

Well I thought that was weird to be told to contact departure when you're sitting on the numbers in preparation for takeoff. So I guess my question is what would be the read back concerning altitude.

When vacating an altitude one should make ATC aware. Here in PHX I often here

"PHX departure Air Shuttle #1110 climbing 5800 for 8000." I know that "with you is" a passionate subject amongst pilots. But in this case since your just leaving the runway and pulling the gear up would it be proper to say.

"LAS departure Air Shuttle #1110 with you for 8000!"

The LAS controller said that it is legal to give departure change over directions when cleared to takeoff. But might one consider it to be dangerous or at least distractionary to flying the plane to be dialing in the frequency for Dep while exiting the runway and pulling up the gear?

[mikecweb]

They probably already have that frequency in so they won't have to "dial it". Thats what F/Os are for.
Lol and there is never a excuse/reason to use with you. You would definetly have some altitude prior to calling them. Something like "Air shuttle 1111 climbing 1,100 for 8,000." This also serves as an altitude check on you xpdr for ATC.

[SteveC]

Originally Posted by mikecweb

Something like "Air shuttle 1111 climbing 1,100 for 8,000."

Or "Air Shuttle one one one one, <slight pause> one thousand one hundred climbing eight thousand".

[Chris_Ford]

Originally Posted by SteveC

Or "Air Shuttle one one one one, <slight pause> one thousand one hundred climbing eight thousand".

Or "Air Shuttle eleven-eleven, one thousand one hundred for eight thousand"

Airline flight numbers can be grouped, per my ATC class

[SteveC]

Originally Posted by Chris_Ford

Or "Air Shuttle eleven-eleven, one thousand one hundred for eight thousand"

Airline flight numbers can be grouped, per my ATC class

O.K. I'll take your word on that. I don't speak "airline".


<edit to add:>
...and it should be "climbing eight thousand", not "for eight thousand" (for/four/fore).

[Flysher]

haha flying out of richmond at 2 AM Ive gotten a clearance to taxi/takeoff/contact departure when Im still parked at the ramp

The best was one time I got a squawk code over the ATIS frequency, tower guy had to use the lav and knew I was quickturning, so at the end of the atis he had my clearance

[wheelsup]

Originally Posted by SteveC

O.K. I'll take your word on that. I don't speak "airline".

I don't think it's just for the "airlines", but for anyone with a callsign/flight number.

[Ian J]

Originally Posted by Chris_Ford

Or "Air Shuttle eleven-eleven, one thousand one hundred for eight thousand"

Airline flight numbers can be grouped, per my ATC class

This is one of my pet peaves, drilled into my head by the Army. Using "for" can be heard as "four" just like "to" and "two."

When I was at Ft Campbell an F-16 took off and approach said: "Fighterjock 12, climb to 4,000."
He heard, "climb two-four thousand," hit the after-burners and was at FL 240 in no time at all, much to the surprise of the approach controller.

Anywho, the Army teaches saying "climb and maintain," and "descend and maintain" to avoid confusion. And yeah... I know it takes longer to say... using the above example it can be shortened to:

"Air Shuttle eleven-eleven, one thousand one hundred climbing eight thousand."

EDIT to add: Like Steve C said... just reread the posts and that was his example.

[Kristie]

I have to say that i was pretty darned impressed with the LAS ATC tour... I learned a heck of a lot about airspace, waypoints, taxi control and so forth (even what NOT to ask! haha)...

It was definately worth it and altho we couldn't get into TRACON, it was interesting to see how Tower works....I totally appreciate what the ATC guys are dealt with on a daily basis now.

[mbtrebbe]

Originally Posted by ChinookDriver

This is one of my pet peaves, drilled into my head by the Army. Using "for" can be heard as "four" just like "to" and "two."

When I was at Ft Campbell an F-16 took off and approach said: "Fighterjock 12, climb to 4,000."
He heard, "climb two-four thousand," hit the after-burners and was at FL 240 in no time at all, much to the surprise of the approach controller.

Anywho, the Army teaches saying "climb and maintain," and "descend and maintain" to avoid confusion. And yeah... I know it takes longer to say... using the above example it can be shortened to:

"Air Shuttle eleven-eleven, one thousand one hundred climbing eight thousand."

EDIT to add: Like Steve C said... just reread the posts and that was his example.

dont you think you would question a clearance to climb to two four thousand though??

[mtsu_av8er]

Originally Posted by mbtrebbe

dont you think you would question a clearance to climb to two four thousand though??

Why would an F-16 question a clearance to FL240?

[av8rmsu]

Originally Posted by Maximillian_Jenius

\

"Cactus #1176 maintain visual seperation runway 07R clear for takeoff,contact departure control 125.08."
\

I actually had this happed to me tonight when i was leaving ANC. I hadn't started the roll.

[wheelsup]

Originally Posted by mtsu_av8er

Why would an F-16 question a clearance to FL240?

He wouldn't; he would question a clearance to "two-four-thousand"...(get the picture?)

[Ian J]

Originally Posted by mbtrebbe

dont you think you would question a clearance to climb to two four thousand though??

Well, I would... but you know those Airforce types...

[FlyChicaga]

Every takeoff I have done from a Canadian airport in my career so far has included the departure frequency change instructions in the takeoff clearance. There was once we were told to stay with tower when departing from Quebec due to the proximity of some helicopter traffic. Other than that, it is always "Jetlink 1234, contact departure 127.85 airborne, cleared for takeoff on runway 6" or what not. Then there is the famous "line up and wait" instruction for "position and hold."

[Doug Taylor]

Chicaga, you could always tell them: "I'm sorry sir, I don't speak Canadian!"

[mtsu_av8er]

Originally Posted by wheelsup

He wouldn't; he would question a clearance to "two-four-thousand"...(get the picture?)

Ahhhhhh . . . I see (said the blind man, as he picked up his hammer and saw)!!!

Originally Posted by FlyChicaga

Then there is the famous "line up and wait" instruction for "position and hold."

I got tagged with that one in The Bahamas!!

Tower: "N206XX, Line up and wait"
Me: "N206XX, I am number one in line, ready for takeoff"
Tower: "Yes Sir, Line up and wait, traffic departing"
Me: "Yes, Ma'am, I am already in line, number one now, ready for take-off"
Tower: "N206LB, if you're ready for takeoff, line up and wait, or taxi clear of the holding area"
Me: "N206XX is ready to go, and - Ooohhhhhh . . . line up and wait"

Long, long silence . . .

[wheelsup]

Originally Posted by mtsu_av8er

Tower: "N206XX, Line up and wait"
Me: "N206XX, I am number one in line, ready for takeoff"
Tower: "Yes Sir, Line up and wait, traffic departing"
Me: "Yes, Ma'am, I am already in line, number one now, ready for take-off"
Tower: "N206LB, if you're ready for takeoff, line up and wait, or taxi clear of the holding area"
Me: "N206XX is ready to go, and - Ooohhhhhh . . . line up and wait"

Long, long silence . . .

LOL you should have responded "we'll pull it out and hold it"

[meritflyer]

Originally Posted by SteveC

<edit to add:>
...and it should be "climbing eight thousand", not "for eight thousand" (for/four/fore).

According to the AIM it is FOR. Its purely personal to not say "for".

[meritflyer]

Originally Posted by ChinookDriver

This is one of my pet peaves, drilled into my head by the Army. Using "for" can be heard as "four" just like "to" and "two."

When I was at Ft Campbell an F-16 took off and approach said: "Fighterjock 12, climb to 4,000."
He heard, "climb two-four thousand," hit the after-burners and was at FL 240 in no time at all, much to the surprise of the approach controller.

Anywho, the Army teaches saying "climb and maintain," and "descend and maintain" to avoid confusion. And yeah... I know it takes longer to say... using the above example it can be shortened to:

"Air Shuttle eleven-eleven, one thousand one hundred climbing eight thousand."

EDIT to add: Like Steve C said... just reread the posts and that was his example.

Not being an advocate of such language as I can see it may be a safety issue, but it is in the AIM to say FOR.

[zmiller4]

Originally Posted by Maximillian_Jenius

"Cactus #1176 maintain visual seperation runway 07R clear for takeoff,contact departure control 125.08."

Well I thought that was weird to be told to contact departure when you're sitting on the numbers in preparation for takeoff. So I guess my question is what would be the read back concerning altitude.

I'm not sure they're telling you to contact departure right away. In Miami they used to say something like "fly runway heading, departure on 125.5, cleared for takeoff 8R"...but it didn't mean switch to departure right away, it was just a clarification as to which departure frequency they wanted you on.

[TonyC]

Originally Posted by FlyChicaga

Every takeoff I have done from a Canadian airport in my career so far has included the departure frequency change instructions in the takeoff clearance.

...

Then there is the famous "line up and wait" instruction for "position and hold."

Isn't it funny how not every other country in the whole wide world has the exact same rules as us?!?







.

[SteveC]

Originally Posted by TonyC

Isn't it funny how not every other country in the whole wide world has the exact same rules as us?!?

"Boy, those French, they have a different word for everything!"




.

[daveatc]

Originally Posted by mtsu_av8er

Why would an F-16 question a clearance to FL240?

I'd say that 80-90% of the time, fighters want to quick climb to their FL coming off the runway.

[falconvalley]

Originally Posted by mikecweb

They probably already have that frequency in so they won't have to "dial it". Thats what F/Os are for.
Lol and there is never a excuse/reason to use with you. You would definetly have some altitude prior to calling them. Something like "Air shuttle 1111 climbing 1,100 for 8,000." This also serves as an altitude check on you xpdr for ATC.

Yep- finish the safety-of-flight items first.