Preferred IFR Routes

Bandit_Driver · August 5th, 2006, 01:28

What is the purpose of having published preferred routes if center is going to reject them.

Had a ground controller get a little short with me after center rejected the route and he said it was going to be a while he tried to fix it?

jtrain609 · August 5th, 2006, 15:26

I've given up trying to figure out what approach wants out of me when I file departures. Anymore I'll just file direct and see what they give me.

jonnyb · August 5th, 2006, 17:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bandit_Driver

What is the purpose of having published preferred routes if center is going to reject them.

Had a ground controller get a little short with me after center rejected the route and he said it was going to be a while he tried to fix it?

That's ridiculous. I must say that while most of the time controllers are supurb, I have noticed a decline in the quality of service over the last year or so. Mostly with the ARTCC's.

Fox Xray · August 5th, 2006, 17:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bandit_Driver

What is the purpose of having published preferred routes if center is going to reject them.

Had a ground controller get a little short with me after center rejected the route and he said it was going to be a while he tried to fix it?

I would need more detail to give you an answer. What exactly is happening ??? Was this isolated or happen often ??? There are numerous reasons... some terminals are on apreq (approval request) with the overlying center for departures. If we have a departure with bad routing we either issue it to the terminal to issue or just take care of it ourselves so that does not seem like a reason to me. Where did you get the routing from ??? AFD ??? The routing's we use are in our facility LOA's and SOP's and are not available to the public.

The overlying center may have been in swap and your routing did not work with the swap routing's... it's hard to say.

Bandit_Driver · August 6th, 2006, 09:20

It has happened several times out of East Coast airport. According to dispatch they said they have tried everything an now just guess when creating flight plans.

KLB · August 6th, 2006, 19:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtrain609

I've given up trying to figure out what approach wants out of me when I file departures. Anymore I'll just file direct and see what they give me.

I'm with you on that one. Atleast you guys can file departures over there. Even though there are no plublished departures out of T67, we still get them in clearances. But we can't file for them. And they always clear us for a departure procedure and a be off time/void time that will be two minutes later....giving no time to look it over and set up for it.

Edit: Can I just ask for more time to set up for the departure? Or would this just totally mess up the IFR traffic flow that the controllers have planned?

jonnyb · August 6th, 2006, 19:52

Quote:

Edit: Can I just ask for more time to set up for the departure? Or would this just totally mess up the IFR traffic flow that the controllers have planned?

If that's what you need, by all means take the time you need. For your sake and everyone else's, it's much more important to be precise and accurate.

Fox Xray · August 6th, 2006, 21:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by KLB

Edit: Can I just ask for more time to set up for the departure? Or would this just totally mess up the IFR traffic flow that the controllers have planned?

The time off/void time is used because you are departing "non radar" meaning that a specific altitude stratum is being blocked for your departure for that specific time.

What you can try is when you are filing your flight plan add a remark requesting a clearence void time of 5 minutes ... maybe add due to A/C pre flight requirements. Not sure if it will work but it is worth a try.

casey · August 7th, 2006, 18:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by KLB

I'm with you on that one. Atleast you guys can file departures over there. Even though there are no plublished departures out of T67, we still get them in clearances. But we can't file for them. And they always clear us for a departure procedure and a be off time/void time that will be two minutes later....giving no time to look it over and set up for it.

Edit: Can I just ask for more time to set up for the departure? Or would this just totally mess up the IFR traffic flow that the controllers have planned?

whenever i depart a field where i have to call remotely for a clearance i initially call for the clearance and tell them i'm holding for release and give an estimate for when i'll be ready. This gets the controller to give me my clearance but i cannot depart the field. This is when you can setup the boxes, look at the procedures, etc. When I get to the departure end of the runway i call back ready to depart, #1 at rwy xx, and then when i get my release with a 2 minute void time, its no problem.

Bandit_Driver · August 7th, 2006, 19:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fox Xray

The time off/void time is used because you are departing "non radar" meaning that a specific altitude stratum is being blocked for your departure for that specific time.

What you can try is when you are filing your flight plan add a remark requesting a clearance void time of 5 minutes ... maybe add due to A/C pre flight requirements. Not sure if it will work but it is worth a try.

Tell ATC it is for operational necessity. They can't argue too much then.

KLB · August 7th, 2006, 22:26

Thats great info guy! I'll have to try some of those next time I file IFR. One time I had to ferry a plane from an airport under heavy IFR. The airport didn't have clearance delivery on the ground and it was overcast with very low ceilings. So I had to call up clearance delivery by phone and get my clearance. They wanted me off in the next five minutes after receiving my clearance. I responded, "You know that I'm sitting in an FBO right now and there is know way that I can get into the aircraf,t review the clearance, have the preflight check done, run up done, and be off in five minutes. Can you get that extended for me about 15 extra minutes?" She said that she didn't think so.....sort of a take it or leave it sort of deal. I really hate being in the soup, single pilot, with my head burried in the plates trying to figure out where I'm going and what I'm supposed to be doing.

TeddyG · August 9th, 2006, 10:58

Well as far as what approach wants. Here all jet acft have to either be on a SID or a PDR. Allot of times pilots will file some crazy direct route at crazy altitudes. Allot affects your clearance ie some routes are inbound only or outbound only, weather is always a factor. If weather sucks and you have to close down that airway then everyone that filed that route is going to get a reroute. As far as satellite airports calling for clearance. the controller was high if they thought you would be off the ground in 5 minutes the clearance void times is 15 minutes. If I'm not mistaken thats per the 7110.65 Ill have to look it up. It's a really good idea if theres something that's going on that smells fishy. Take note of it and look it up in the FAA Order 7110.65.

sm203900 · August 11th, 2006, 11:11

Quick question, do you know where I would be able to get ATC preferred routes for short hops in New York City? I subscribe to the NY ARTCC publication of preferred routes. Unfortunately this does not cover routes such as HPN to TEB, MMU to FOK, TEB to GON, etc. Thanks for the help.

Bandit_Driver · August 12th, 2006, 19:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by KLB

Thats great info guy! I'll have to try some of those next time I file IFR. One time I had to ferry a plane from an airport under heavy IFR. The airport didn't have clearance delivery on the ground and it was overcast with very low ceilings. So I had to call up clearance delivery by phone and get my clearance. They wanted me off in the next five minutes after receiving my clearance. I responded, "You know that I'm sitting in an FBO right now and there is know way that I can get into the aircraf,t review the clearance, have the preflight check done, run up done, and be off in five minutes. Can you get that extended for me about 15 extra minutes?" She said that she didn't think so.....sort of a take it or leave it sort of deal. I really hate being in the soup, single pilot, with my head burried in the plates trying to figure out where I'm going and what I'm supposed to be doing.

A cell phone can make life a lot easier. Call when you are ready in the runup area.

airplanerik · August 14th, 2006, 12:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bandit_Driver

A cell phone can make life a lot easier. Call when you are ready in the runup area.

But, what if you get out to the runup area and you have no cell signal and you can't reach anybody via the radio!?!

Gah! Back to the land line.

KLB · August 14th, 2006, 22:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bandit_Driver

A cell phone can make life a lot easier. Call when you are ready in the runup area.

I do that sometimes. It gets tough to hear them and for them to hear you in the summer time when theres a flight of 3 T-28's running up next to you.