New air traffic controller pay

[savemecalifornia]

Does anyone know how much lower the pay for new air traffic controllers is? Are they still making pretty good money?

[PurduePilot]

Originally Posted by savemecalifornia

Does anyone know how much lower the pay for new air traffic controllers is? Are they still making pretty good money?

I'd say they're making pretty good money. It's $40k to start and then you're making close to $90k after about 4 years. I'll look up the payscale, but I don't have time now...

Everyone is bitching about the pay though... after being paid dirt as a CFI their complaints fall upon deaf ears by me.

[surreal1221]

The new pay scale ranges from 40% to 30% lower than the old scale.

Everyone bitches because. . . you have an administration that is so gung-ho about privatizing the careerfield. . . I wonder how many CTI'rs realize the ultimate fate of the FAA, and more importantly the end game the Bush administration is heading for.

Just like SJS, someone has to speak out about these issues . . . either you're part of the problem, or part of the solution.

To the OP: Good money is subjective when it comes to keeping metal from touching, how much do you pay a brain or heart surgeon? No amount of money can be "good money" to an ATC'r, but then again, all that I know - never got into it in the first place because of the money, but rather for the public service. But who wants to be a public servant when your own government is spending money willy nilly - but is quick to slash your yearly salary.

[PurduePilot]

The website for ATC payscales:

www.atpay.faa.gov

Click on "Documents" on the left pane, then "View."

You have to know the level of your facility though, and down on the list is an Excel sheet that lists all the facilities and their levels.

What you need is: "Air Traffic Control Facilities By Service Area" and "AT Pay Base Table January 8, 2006"

[hkrach]

Is there another link to this. I tried to click on what you said, and for some reason my computer won't allow me to view the "view" menu. When I click on it, it does nothing

[surreal1221]

May be another one of the FAA's ways of keeping potential candidates in the dark about their future. . . (only marginal )

[AlexF]

Originally Posted by surreal1221

May be another one of the FAA's ways of keeping potential candidates in the dark about their future. . . (only marginal )

Probably more true then you think. Many know about the new contract and i'd imagine it sucks to work right next to a guy who got hired a week earlier then you and is making twice as much as you are. Also, I'm not sure about centers and approach (at least not for 15 years or so), but I'm pretty sure the FAA is going to start contracting out more towers in the next few years and with less pay and inspections only once a year for contract towers, the quality, staffing and hours are going to go way down.

[surreal1221]

Yup, and this total disregard is reason #1 why I'll leave the ATC profession to those who are willing to work for less.

A friend of mine, who was hired at ZLA in late 2005, managed to get through the academy, before they instated the new non-tract. . . but he is feeling the heat from guys who graduated from the academy a mere 3 or 4 weeks AFTER he did who are now falling under the B-scale.

Just too much for me, maybe a 5-10% cut . . . but christ - 30-40% . . . have to be kidding me.

[Andrew_VT]

I heard a rumor that the FAA is hurting for new controllers, so much so that they are considering pulling ATC students during or even before their senior year! Some DWC ATC kids are pretty excited about this but no one knows if its legit or not. Anyone know anything?

[rickyrhodesii]

Originally Posted by Andrew_VT

I heard a rumor that the FAA is hurting for new controllers,...

Well, I hate to break it to you but, there's not a shortage of military controllers who want to be FAA controllers. Since I've been in the Air Force, only a few of us have re-enlisted. Everyone else...they do their time, 4 or 6 years, and then they get picked up by the FAA.

Lower pay scale or not, they just don't care. I guess they have a variation of SJS, maybe it's "SFAAS?!?"

[Mike734]

Originally Posted by rickyrhodesii

Well, I hate to break it to you but, there's not a shortage of military controllers who want to be FAA controllers. Since I've been in the Air Force, only a few of us have re-enlisted. Everyone else...they do their time, 4 or 6 years, and then they get picked up by the FAA.

Lower pay scale or not, they just don't care. I guess they have a variation of SJS, maybe it's "SFAAS?!?"

The military has no where near enough controllers to fix the coming problem.

[rickyrhodesii]

Originally Posted by Mike734

The military has no where near enough controllers to fix the coming problem.

Sorry, I wasn't implying the ex-military controllers would fill the void, I just meant they're all to willing to step and work for "b-scale" money.

[hkrach]

PurduePilot, do you know of any other links to this page. I'm just curious and the last time I asked I didn't get an intelligent response I know that the page exists since you posted it here, and it isn't a huge government conspiracy to keep people in the dark. My computer just doesn't like me I guess.

[SteveC]

Originally Posted by hkrach

PurduePilot, do you know of any other links to this page. I'm just curious and the last time I asked I didn't get an intelligent response I know that the page exists since you posted it here, and it isn't a huge government conspiracy to keep people in the dark. My computer just doesn't like me I guess.

The link works for me.

There, is that an intelligent enough response for ya?

[surreal1221]

From NATCA's Doug Church, their media relations POC.

Originally Posted by Military Controller turning down the FAA #1

February 16, 2007

To Whom It May Concern:

My name is Jessica Dickey and I have been in the military for 10 years. I am facility rated (FWS) and CTO Certified Air affic Controller with a Bachelors Degree in Psychology and 16 credits into my Masters Degree. I recently submitted my paperwork to become a controller in the FAA. I was up for reenlistment in September of 2006 but I did not intend to reenlist because I wanted to be a controller in the FAA. After I submitted my paperwork I received three letters requesting more information in reference to the jobs that I applied for. I resubmitted my paper for the Texas Terminal area and waited for a response back.

A few weeks later I received a letter from the FAA with a pay chart informing me of the new salaries being implemented in the system. The starting salary for a Center Controller was $32,500. When I saw these numbers I was shocked to think that they would expect me to give up my military salary, which is much higher, to be employed by the FAA. If I would give up my military salary I would also be giving up my medical insurance, living expenses, and food allowance, which adds up to a nice amount. After giving up this money to take a $32,500 salary job I would also have to consider the additional money that I would have to spend such as medical insurance, housing, gas, and food. Not to mention my non-taxable allowances.

Do you think that someone would actually give up all the benefits of the military to take a pay cut? I am a perfect example of that answer, which was no. I extended on my contract and received a pay raise with more benefits and after I do get out of the military I will not consider the FAA because of the new salary. Thanks to all the new changes that have occurred in the FAA it has convinced hundreds of qualified controllers to pursue other jobs and just let expert control qualities go to waste.

And. . . another one. . .

Originally Posted by Military controller turning down the FAA #2

March 8, 2007

Dear Sir or Madam:

I am a 29 year old Army Veteran with seven years air traffic control experience. I am currently a D.O.D. air traffic controller working at Waynesville Regional Airport at Forney Army Airfield. I have recently applied to the F.A.A. and have been selected as a primary candidate for two different positions. One was throughout Tennessee, and the other was a pinpoint location at Augusta, GA. I have turned down these positions due to the starting salaries.

I have the experience you are looking for, and was very excited about the opportunity to work for the F.A.A. But I can not afford the drastic pay cut. I am currently GS-10 step 2, and would not accept a position for any less than what I’m making now. The D.O.D. has given the air traffic controllers locality pay as well as ATC premium pay. I understand the reason air traffic controllers
are receiving these incentive pays are to be competitive with the F.A.A. The starting salary I was offered was approx. 32,000. I don’t see how the F.A.A. can compete with the D.O.D. with the current pay scale.

Sincerely,

William Urena

And, Doug Church's comments about the two of these.

Originally Posted by Doug Church, NATCA

I wanted to share another letter with you that we just received from an experienced military air traffic controller who wanted to work for the FAA but has turned down a job offer because it would have meant a pay cut. This is a common refrain we are hearing from around the country. The FAA, because of its drastic, imposed pay cut for new hires, is squandering an opportunity to secure the services of experienced controllers from the military who would not only provide an excellent foundation for the next generation workforce but would likely need less time to train at an individual facility than a new hire fresh off the street.

-Doug Church
National Air Traffic Controllers Association
202-220-9802

Originally Posted by rickyrhodesii

Sorry, I wasn't implying the ex-military controllers would fill the void, I just meant they're all to willing to step and work for "b-scale" money.

All too willing to step. . . sure, and greatly understandable. . . but all to willing to work for the b-scale? Do you stay in contact with all the 1C1's that leave the AF to make sure that ALL of them are willing to work for the B-scale?

Sure, they leave, but not ALL who leave pursue ATC in the civilian environment.

[queeno]

i hate to break it to you folks but the new people are on the C pay scale,the A scale were controllers who were FPLs when pay reclass started, B scale were FPLs checked out after pay reclass,C are the new chumps after sept 3.

[surreal1221]

Even better! Sign me up v2.0


/not

[JKoffler44]

I just came across this thread in google. Is this still the case with air traffic controller pay? I am trying to find some sort of pay scale but the link in this thread no longer works.

[JT ATC]

http://faaimposedpayrules.natca.net/

[JKoffler44]

Thank you. I'm not quite sure I understand how to read this. What is locality pay?

[SoonerATC]

Locality is the cost of living adjustment they pay you to try to provide an equitable standard of living for controllers living in different parts of the country. Certain areas get higher locality rates because the FAA regards those areas as having higher costs of living.

Multiply the locality by your salary, then add that to your base salary - to find how much you would actually make in a particular part of the country.

[ATLTRACON]

Originally Posted by PurduePilot

I'd say they're making pretty good money. It's $40k to start and then you're making close to $90k after about 4 years. I'll look up the payscale, but I don't have time now...Not even close. These are FAA "quotes." Just like saying that all of the controllers make 200K...after they add in your medical, retirement, etc.

Everyone is bitching about the pay though... after being paid dirt as a CFI their complaints fall upon deaf ears by me.

[Zoesmom1020]

I'd have to agree with a previous poster about the pay being better than what some of us are currently dealing with...

Being OTS after completing the OKC training I will start at $33,100 plus locality, so let's assume (yeah yeah A$$ out of u & me, haha ) I don't go to a big city, and I am stationed at a level 7 (chosen cause it's the middle of the road). So I start my ATC career at $37,462 (including the 13.18% locality). Let's say there is a shortage of trainers and it takes a full year before I even start training and then it takes me 4 more years to complete my ATC training. So in 5 years I am finally at the top of my level 7 pay scale plus locality I am making $53,534 (this is if nothing changes, no increase in locality pay, no base pay increase, no level increase/decrease). Plus I am getting health insurace, retirement, paid sick/vacation days. [Just a note: I am very intelligent and I know I will get through my training faster than 95% of the other ATC trainees.]

This is an amazing prospect for me! Right now I am in school for Criminal Forensics. Everyone thinks this is some kind of really cool job but is it?

"Older" ATCS say the shift work stinks, holidays, weekends, nights...CSI is just as bad if not worse. As an ATC at least you KNOW when you have to work, as a CSI you get a phone call at 4am on Chistmas morning saying you have to go down to the river to help drag a body out of the river, forget Christmas morning with the kids, heck, forget the whole day...you are on call for at least 24 hours. And the pay: you start at $31,000 IF you are lucky and thats after you have spent 2 years working as a street police officer making $27K. The MAX pay for an officer in most locations is $64K and that's not after 5 years, it's after 10-15 years. At least as an ATC you aren't working with the scum of drug dealers, murders, and sex offenders.

This is what I had to look forward to after graduating next December, before I got an email from one of my professors about the Feb 08 OTS App. Even my prof. knew how great of an opportunity this could be!

I know a lot of us are coming into this career with blinders on (whether intentional or not). But for most of us, there is more money, freedom, and security in this job than what we currently have.

I'm glad that this site is here as a resource and the "Ask an ATC" is super helpful. But I, for one, don't mind being a "chump" in this business, I mean, someone has to be, or else there wont be anyone left in a few years. I can't wait for my opportunity to succeed in this field. Watch out world...Here I Come!!

Leighann

BTW: I've been waiting tables through college. I made $17,500 last year. No health insurace, no paid vacation, no paid sick days, and I make $3.67 an hour (which disappears in taxes) and live solely off of what people decide to leave as a tip. But what I look forward to more than anything is to never again have to ask, "French Fries or Potato Salad?"


All the FAA numbers were found at:

https://employees.faa.gov/employee_s...o_locality.xls

http://faaimposedpayrules.natca.net/...ratesrev13.xls

[ATLTRACON]

Originally Posted by Zoesmom1020

I'd have to agree with a previous poster about the pay being better than what some of us are currently dealing with...
It's all subjective isn't it... You could be making two bucks a week sewing soccer balls.
Being OTS after completing the OKC training I will start at $33,100 plus locality, so let's assume (yeah yeah A$$ out of u & me, haha ) I don't go to a big city, and I am stationed at a level 7 (chosen cause it's the middle of the road). Imaging if you had to live off of that in LAX or SFO
So I start my ATC career at $37,462 (including the 13.18% locality). Let's say there is a shortage of trainers and it takes a full year before I even start training and then it takes me 4 more years to complete my ATC training. So in 5 years I am finally at the top of my level 7 pay scale plus locality I am making $53,534 (this is if nothing changes, no increase in locality pay, no base pay increase, no level increase/decrease). Plus I am getting health insurance you are not getting health ins. you pay a very sizable chunk of the monthly premium, retirement, 4 hours a payday to start / 12-13 vacation days a year - whoopee. You'd get more at McDonald's. Also S/L never goes up - 4 hours a payday. One good flu will help you use up ALL of your yearly S/L. Don't forget take ANY medication - ANY- and you are not going to work. Nyquil, sudifed etc. Use up A LOT of S/L that way.paid sick/vacation days. [Just a note: I am very intelligent and I know I will get through my training faster than 95% of the other ATC trainees.]

This is an amazing prospect for me! Right now I am in school for Criminal Forensics. Everyone thinks this is some kind of really cool job but is it?

"Older" ATCS say the shift work stinks, holidays, weekends, nights...CSI is just as bad if not worse. Get barely 8 hours off between shifts for 20+ years, with the intense adrenalin rushes/ups/downs/ etc and you will be a very old man by 40. Father /brother, etc. have NO gray in their beards/hair, etc. In the last year I have gone from no gray to almost 100%. Coincidence - maybe But I have worked 58 weeks in a row of OT, mostly 10 hour days, It wears you out.As an ATC at least you KNOW when you have to work, Not always, just don't answer your phone (the only way to get two days off as a CSI you get a phone call at 4am on Chistmas morning Have worked 21 of the last 22 Christmas' Every Thanksgiving and a good portion of Children's B-days and nights saying you have to go down to the river to help drag a body out of the river screw up and the CSI will be going down and dragging a couple hundred bodies that YOU have personally killed / CSI doesn't have that responsibility, forget Christmas morning with the kids, heck, forget the whole day...you are on call for at least 24 hours. And the pay: you start at $31,000 IF you are lucky and thats after you have spent 2 years working as a street police officer making $27K. The MAX pay for an officer in most locations is $64K and that's not after 5 years, it's after 10-15 years. At least as an ATC you aren't working with the scum of drug dealers, murders, and sex offenders.

This is what I had to look forward to after graduating next December, before I got an email from one of my professors about the Feb 08 OTS App. Even my prof. knew how great of an opportunity this could be!

I know a lot of us are coming into this career with blinders on (whether intentional or not). But for most of us, there is more money, freedom don't know what you quite mean about freedom in the FFA (hint - study your rear off the first few years and remember good phraseology will save your career one day/bad phraseology could end it, and security not anymore in this job than what we currently have.

I'm glad that this site is here as a resource and the "Ask an ATC" is super helpful. But I, for one, don't mind being a "chump" in this business, I mean, someone has to be, or else there wont be anyone left in a few years. I can't wait for my opportunity to succeed in this field. Watch out world...Here I Come!!

Leighann

BTW: I've been waiting tables through college. I made $17,500 last year. No health insurace, no paid vacation, no paid sick days, and I make $3.67 an hour (which disappears in taxes) and live solely off of what people decide to leave as a tip. But what I look forward to more than anything is to never again have to ask, "French Fries or Potato Salad?"


All the FAA numbers were found at:

https://employees.faa.gov/employee_s...o_locality.xls

http://faaimposedpayrules.natca.net/...ratesrev13.xls

[teetee]

I am new to this and could be COMPLETELY off base; however, I am not sure that the training issue has to do with IQ levels or how quickly you learn. I think the issue has to do with the amount of controllers available to train you. I personally think part of the reason for the drop out (as I have read it everywhere that I can on the web) has to do with the fact that they aren't getting trained as fast as they would like to and they feel like it is wasting time and their intelligence...hence the frustration

As for the pay..I am with you on that. If you are hired into the FAA making more than what you are currently making...doesn't seem as bad as other career choices.