Color Blindness tests

[cessna2351]

Does anybody know of an alternative to the Ishihara plates that is used by the FAA for medical exams, more specifically ATC? With my medical expiring soon and the fact that I will soon needed to be tested for the FAA, I'm looking for an alternative because I suck at some of those circle tests and am starting to worry this will be a disqualification. I've held a 2nd class medical for a couple years and have the slight red/green color deficiency. ATC requires a 2nd class medical but also an exam by a FAA selected examiner (I think). I have no idea how strict they are when it comes to color deficiency. I'm hoping I won't have any issues but if anyone has any information it would be greatly appreciated.

[kellwolf]

There's a list of acceptable alternative tests, but most are either a) expensive or b) difficult to find people that give them. I'm also slightly colorblind and hate the Ishihara plates. I've also passed two 1st class medicals so far off the plates, so it can't be THAT bad.

[montanapilot]

contact the FSDO about getting a light gun test, get a letter from the FAA, then you'll be able to present that letter at future medicals and be exempt from the color test for life. Call up AOPA they can give you all the details.

[cessna2351]

Thanks for the input guys, this will definatly be on my 'to do' list this summer. I don't think I'd have any trouble from a lightgun test because I've never had a problem seeing the aviation colors (vasi/papi/beacon,etc) I'm petrified of dropping money for a degree in ATC only to find out I can't do it.

[cessna2351]

FWIW I ran into this webpage about colorblindness and medicals if anyone is interested.

http://www.leftseat.com/baggish.htm

[lilrkt]

I had failed the test at the doctor and had to take a light gun test. It's no big deal. Once you have passed it, you are set for life.

[cessna2351]

[ QUOTE ]
I had failed the test at the doctor and had to take a light gun test. It's no big deal. Once you have passed it, you are set for life.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats cool. I've never personally witnessed a light gun signal but when my medical expires next summer I have a feeling i'll be getting ready to call the FSDO to arange a test. Not sure if the light gun test will carry over to my future ATC medical (same as a 2nd class but standards might be different) but it sounds like a lot of people pass very easily.

My dad suggested this might be a "don't ask don't tell situation" but I'm not too sure about that. I don't want to spend money to get a job which I won't be able to do. It would be a heartbreaker for sure though...

Good to know there are other color deficient freaks like myself out there .

[EatSleepFly]

I would "don't ask don't tell" until you actually can't pass the test. Then do the light gun test and get the SODA. If it ain't broke now, don't fix it yet!

[cessna2351]

While that seems like the easy thing to do, I don't want to spend good money to get a degree in ATC only to find out I'm ineligible. I'm heading back home next weekend and have an appointment with my eye doctor, I just wanna learn a little more about how serious my deficiency is. I don't know if the lightgun test is only for pilots, or if there is a similiar "waiver" available for ATC. Then over spring break, I'm gonna meet one of the Air Traffic Managers of ZOB who is a family friend and get a professional opinion.

Is this possible....
I usually fly here in Florida every weekend or so if I can...if I go to maybe a smaller class D airport, can I just ask the tower to shine the lightgun so I can see what it looks like? Or is that kinda looked down upon?

Ishihara plates

The only one i can't see anything in is the bottom left, can't see a darn thing. I can BARELY see the 45, i can see the 56, in the top right I see a 70, where as normal vision sees a 29. There are actually a few other tests where I can see the number if people point it out to me, lol.

Man, I hope I'm freaking out over nothing

[lilrkt]

You should have no problem requesting a light demo from the tower if they are not busy. I don't know if I would bother though. Sounds like you are in the same situation I am in visually. I can do some of the tests fine just not others. I can't speak for the ATC medical reqs but htey should be the same if not more lax than the pilot exam. The person you really need to talk to, is the doctor. He/she can tell you what the exam for ATC will entail and if you could pass it. And he cannot tell the FAA anything about your health until you actually take the physical. If you go to the FAA first, there's always a chance they can cause problems for you down the road. I don't think you would have any problems with them, but it all depends on who you talk to.

[applepwnz]

[ QUOTE ]
FWIW I ran into this webpage about colorblindness and medicals if anyone is interested.

http://www.leftseat.com/baggish.htm

[/ QUOTE ]

On that website they talk about people that perceive various colors as gray, but I perceive blue and purple as looking the same (purple looks blue to me, or maybe blue looks purple?) does anyone know what that might be? All colors look brilliant (if they're brilliant shades) to me, just blue and purple look identical.

edit:

Protanomaly (one out of 100 males):
Protanomaly is referred to as "red-weakness", an apt description of this form of color deficiency. Any redness seen in a color by a normal observer is seen more weakly by the protanomalous viewer, both in terms of its "coloring power" (saturation, or depth of color) and its brightness. Red, orange, yellow, yellow-green, and green, appear somewhat shifted in hue ("hue" is just another word for "color") towards green, and all appear paler than they do to the normal observer. The redness component that a normal observer sees in a violet or lavender color is so weakened for the protanomalous observer that he may fail to detect it, and therefore sees only the blue component. Hence, to him the color that normals call "violet" may look only like another shade of blue.

crap, that sounds bad I'd better be able to pass the color test, imagine, 20/20 vision, but i couldn't pass the color test, that would be horrible

[kellwolf]

Web sites are kinda bad barometers for colorblindness test. I get a lot of "false positives" from them. Basically, it comes down to resolution, color, monitor type, etc.

I'm slightly blue/green, and I've passed the 1st class twice already. Doctor never told me anything about how I did on the tests, so I don't know if I barely passed or if I did as well as anyone else.

[applepwnz]

Good, I guess there's some hope for me at least

[cessna2351]

[ QUOTE ]
Web sites are kinda bad barometers for colorblindness test. I get a lot of "false positives" from them. Basically, it comes down to resolution, color, monitor type, etc

[/ QUOTE ]

True, I've gotten different results by going to a friends computer.

Yeah, If i'm getting the right impression from these online tests (of course taken with a grain of salt), I'm of the red-green type and seem to have slightly better luck seeing the ones in the green/brown, than the red/yellow plates. However, through flying I've never had any problems seeing VASI/PAPI, beacon lights, etc. I guess my big concern is that if I end up taking a lightgun test (if necessary) when my medical expires, will the waiver carry over to the FAA Medical in the ATC preemployment process I've emailed a friend who is a controller and whenever If the website ever registers me, I will post the question on Natca's BBS too.

I don't know if I'd worry too much about the blue/purple thing. I can tell them apart but they are kinda close anyway.

[PhilosopherPilot]

[ QUOTE ]
Does anybody know of an alternative to the Ishihara plates that is used by the FAA for medical exams, more specifically ATC? With my medical expiring soon and the fact that I will soon needed to be tested for the FAA, I'm looking for an alternative because I suck at some of those circle tests and am starting to worry this will be a disqualification. I've held a 2nd class medical for a couple years and have the slight red/green color deficiency. ATC requires a 2nd class medical but also an exam by a FAA selected examiner (I think). I have no idea how strict they are when it comes to color deficiency. I'm hoping I won't have any issues but if anyone has any information it would be greatly appreciated.

[/ QUOTE ]

The color vision test is the same for all classes of medicals, and the requirements are identical for all classes. If you've passed it once, you'll always pass it. Color vision is genetic, and it doesn't degrade over time.

There is no longer a SODA for color vision, but if you have the light gun test that will be on your record. Why have something like that on your record if you've already passed the Ishihara plates in previous medicals? You may fail a few of the plates...I think 4, and still pass. (It is just pass/fail.)

I had a restriction on my first medical, but after taking the light gun test a year or two later, it was removed. I'm sure the airlines can find it on my records that I once had a restriction.

G

[cessna2351]

Sorry to bring this post back from the dead...

But I found out that a SODA/Light Gun Waiver WILL carry over in the ATC medical. I spoke to a new ATC hire today who went through just that. He failed the color test the first time, had a restriction, got the waiver, presented it to the guy who gave him his two ATC medicals (yes thanks to the FAA in its infinite wisdom he was in process for two years, thus needing two medicals since ATC have to get it updated every year) and was exempted from taking the color vision test.

This may sound meaningless to some, but it is a HUUUUUUGGE obstacle out of the way for me. I just have to make sure I can pass a light gun test. I have an aircraft rented on Sunday, methinks I might make a little trip to New Smyrna and ask for a light gun demo if the tower isn't busy. I have never seen a lightgun before but can distinguish vasi/papi lights with no difficulty.

[Looking4Lower]

Be careful, now. I just finished going thru the color vision thing myself, but no light gun test - I did some alternate vision tests and had them documented. That documentation gets submitted to the FAA, and they issue a "Letter of Proficiency" that you can show to your AME at medical exam time. It just states that you meet the color vision standards with alternate tests, and you don't have to take the color vision test at the exam (or ever again!).

I've had borderline color vision problems, but have always 'barely' passed and it was time to get the problem resolved definitively.

Why do this instead of doing a light gun test/SODA? If you really aren't 100% sure about your ability to pass the light gun test, then you might bust the test and that might permanently restrict your medical (passing in a borderline case might be subject to the opinion of the FAA guy who does the test). Plus, SOME potential employers might not look highly on a SODA, but getting a Letter of Proficiency is a different thing entirely.

I would recommend finding an eye specialist who has access to some of the alternate color vision tests and doing those tests. That can be done without putting anything at risk (risking busting a light gun test or FAA medical) and then you can get a good assessment of your problem and you can get the documentation that will need to resolve the problem for the rest of your career. If you aren't sure about your ability to pass, it's probably the best way to go.

Read this: http://www.aviationmedicine.com/colorvision.htm

I worked with this company and with Dr. Monaco, an eye expert recommended by them. Everything went smoothly. It cost me some $$, but way too deep in my flying career to screw around with losing my unrestricted medical status.

PM me if you want the details of the process I went thru.

[Looking4Lower]

ALSO, The Virtual Flight Surgeon guys that helped me with the process also specialize in ATC medical matters, so if you still aren't sure about how to handle your situation you can contact them and they can provide guidance. I'm sure they deal with color vision problems all the time. Not trying to sound like an advertisement, but they were a pleasure to work with, they knew their stuff, and they were very fast.

http://www.virtualfs.com/NATCA.html

[cessna2351]

PM'ed ya.

[cessna2351]

I was thinking about this today and was hoping someone could tell me if this would seem appropriate. What if I called a local small class D tower and simply ask if I could arrange a 'practice' light gun demo. No FAA guy, just perhaps a friend and I standing on the ramp and a guy in the control tower shining the lights. I've never had to call a control tower before and it is a bit intimidating especially for something which isn't really related to a current ATC situation.

Does anyone see anything wrong with this?

[Doug Taylor]

If it's a quiet day at the airport, I don't see anything wrong with calling the tower.

However, I certainly wouldn't suggest trying this at JFK at 5pm on a friday!

[FlyingNole]

Hey, I wanted to catch you before you took the signal gun test. (and yes, you can practice if you find a nice person who works the tower)

DO NOT TAKE THE SIGNAL GUN TEST FIRST.

When I was 15/16 and going through the medical bit, I failed the ishihara plates miserably. I think I can see like 2 or 3 of them, out of 15 lets say. However I know I can see red,green,etc. colors in "real life." Like I have no problem seeing the colors of a traffic light,etc.

With that being said, my flight doc told me to contact the (FLL) FSDO and ask for a signal gun test. What I didn't know was, this is a last resort. If you fail the test you will have a restriction that says something like, "Not valid for night flight." If you pass the day, fail the eve, or visa versa you will get something along the lines of "Not valid for signal gun control during daylight hours." This is what I had. I always thought this was bul!s**t, and my career would be hurt by this useless restriction.

Does that mean I have to circle until nightfall if I lose my COMMS?

Anyway, I researched and researched possible ways around it. Called the FAA, AOPA, talked to JC guys, etc. and they all said sorry, the signal gun is a final resort test and the restriction is perminant. I still took no for an answer, and finally came across an article dealing with a situation similar to mine where the person took the Farnsworth Lantern test.

The next day I called the Southern Region FAA office in Hotlanta and spoke with the cheif flight surgeon. He told me that because I was never given the option to take other tests, and that I passed one part of the signal gun test (night), that i could retest, or do the latern (which from what i heard, was easier). If i retested on the gun, it was a final resort with the possibility of having the restriction still on my medical.

I opted for the lantern, flew to ATL a few weeks later, and took the test. It was suprisingly easy to pass because to me, the colors were obvious, like a traffic light. I now have no waiver.

I have a form of a SODA which I give to the flight docs for my next exam so I will never have to deal with the ishihara plates again.

If you have any more questions about the process,etc. feel free to gimme a hollar.

[applepwnz]

I'm glad to hear that about the Farnsworth Lantern test, I'm going to be taking that one myself pretty soon.

[Looking4Lower]

Reference my earlier posts, I recently received my "Letter of Evidence" from the FAA aeromedical branch in the mail regarding passing alternate color vision tests. That is now my "get out of jail free card" for future medicals, and I will be allowed to have an unrestricted medical issued without retaking any color vision tests. It's pretty much the same letter that FlyingNole was issued, I assume.

The Farnsworth lantern is just one of about 8 alternate tests available, so there are options out there if you know how to go thru the process. The hard part is finding somebody who can give the tests and document them properly.

Anybody can feel free to PM me for details of the process I went thru.

[FlyingNole]

Ya, that's what I got, I couldn't remember its exact name. To anyone who believes that they can see colors normally, besids on the crappy isihara test (color dots), then the Farnsworth Latern may be the best bet for you. You will have other testing options if the Latern does not work, but to me, I thought it was great. I had to think about a few of them, but I passed in any event.

Anyway, like I said before and Lookin4Lower said, if you guys have any thoughts,concerns,questions,whatever gives me or him a hollar...I was Sh**ing a brick thinking my career would be limited by the waiver, but now I have my "get out of jail free" card.

Safe flying, and good luck