Failed MMPI at PEPC?

[jermscentral]

Originally Posted by El Sombrero

It probably has something to do with the fact that "these people" are worried that failing a test filled with completely arbitrary and asenine questions might cost them the chance to obtain their dream job. I realize that this test has been in use for many years and does create a somewhat accurate personality profile, but obviously it's not the 'be all end all' component, or they wouldn't be giving the people who failed an opportunity to clarify any problems flagged by the test. (On the FAA's dime, no less.) At any rate, I'm quite certain that anyone who failed the aforementioned test for any reason has every right to be concerned about it without having you ridicule them. I'm surprised that your arrogant post hasn't gotten you flamed yet; you certainly deserve to be, you dolt.

I don't see how I would be considered a dolt, and the post was not arrogant. Folks here are complaining about a standardized test that accurately profiles an individual based on measured responses to scientifically-formulated questions. The test is designed to measure your accurate responses to questions by asking them in different ways. If the test were to ask if you have ever smoked marijuana, and you say, "No", and then it later asks if you have ever taken recreational drugs, and you say. "Yes," then it knows you are lying. While its main intent was to diagnose mental issues, the MMPI also functions to determine the test taker's individual personality structure.

"Failing" the MMPI means that the answers to some of your questions were outside the boundaries set by the test. As we have read on here already, there are people who have answered the question of, "Have you ever lied?" by responding, "No." THAT IS WHAT THIS TEST IS DESIGNED TO DO. In much the same way as the Myers-Briggs test, the MMPI can detect people trying to game the system, even if the people did not do so intentionally. That is why they are being told to retake the test - if the new test results line up correctly, then there should be no problems. If, however, the answers line up outside the boundaries again, then either the person is not qualified for this position or he/she is trying to answer them non-emotionally. Your first answer is always the right answer on these tests. There is no "right way" to answer a question, because attempting to do so will trip you up in a later question. The questions are neither arbitrary nor asinine, but rather qualifiers.

Short of having psychologists on the payroll to test each individual in an interview setting, this is the cheapest and most accurate method of initially weeding out those that are not cut out for the position.

This is from someone who is married to a girl going in to a clinical psych program, who, oddly enough, just got through talking about the MMPI in class.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minneso...lity_Inventory

Now watch me (hopefully) get a PEPC invite and fail the MMPI. Then I'll be right back here with the rest of you.

[El Sombrero]

Originally Posted by jermscentral

The questions are neither arbitrary nor asinine, but rather qualifiers.

If by answering that I do not suffer from constipation more than once a week somehow "qualifies" me for this job, I withdraw myself from consideration.

[bippoptl]

Originally Posted by El Sombrero

If by answering that I do not suffer from constipation more than once a week somehow "qualifies" me for this job, I withdraw myself from consideration.

i think they are looking for a "YES" to the constipation question. because if you do then you wont have to take as many bathroom breaks.

[ajw204]

You know what, i still haven't gotten a call from the FAA saying that i failed it, even though Sandra Poland told me i was just on a list that said i didn't pass...I don't know this is just weird, i'm still waiting for my TOL that should come this week.

[WoH]

Originally Posted by Wyopoke79

Paranoid........ these are the questions I remember most...

People are out to get you. False
Sometimes I feel like everyone wants to see me fail. False
I have failed because others made me. False
Most people get to the top by stepping on others. False
People will think i am nuts after this test because they want to see me fail. False.

I think this test is more about consistency than anything... They tell you that you can't fool the test..... but imagine if i answered the above t,f,t,f,t,f.....
I think I'd be seen as nuts.. I swear....there were times during the test that I thought....what do they want me to say.....what did i say earlier....

i was just honest though...

This is totally right, as well as the points made by jermscentral

This is NOT AN EMPLOYMENT SCREENING. It is a medical test. It is designed to test your consistency, against the public and against yourself. If you go in thinking "what do they want me to say?" then the test will know that and it will spit you out as failing.

We've all taken the stupid questionnaire in the back office at McDonalds asking if you've ever stolen something from work or if you think you're an above average worker (and you're thinking, of course I'm not above average, I'm applying for a job at McDonalds).

Anyway, these questionnaires are not subjected to the rigourous vetting for validity that test like the MMPI are. They are not made by porfessionals and they are not accurate, that's why you lie when you say that you've never stolen anything from work even as you recall that pen that you acciently took home that one time. The MMPI is not the same.

Saying you were a bindge drinker in college is not going to cost you your job. In fact, no human will probably ever look at this one answer. This answer will be averaged out with your other answers in whatever trait it represents and compared to everyone else who ever took the test. Oh, And BTW, the largest test taking group of inventories like this is college freshmen.

[Joe28]

I did the re-evaluation. It included 1 hour of sitting on the couch talking to a psychologist. He asked me questions from a sheet that the FAA gave him. These questions included everything and anything, including going back to all the places I have lived, what grades I received in grammar, middle, high school, and college. Traumatic events in my life. We talked about stuff that happened 7-8 years ago that I was not prepared to talk about and it was hard.

After that, I retook the exact same MMPI-2 that I took at the PEPC, 567 questions all in the same order. I thought this was weird because both the FAA and the psychologist told me I will be taking the long version of the test, and it ended up being the same exact test. Then I took a similar test to the MMPI-2, a T/F test with 175 questions. Then a test with around 400 questions with 4 answer choices (False, Slightly True, Mostly True, Very True).

I took my time answering all the questions honestly and I was there about 5 hours total. The psychologist sends his notes from the 1 hour session and the 3 tests to the FAA and they make their decision.

[RobertB]

That sucks...

[sampson]

Originally Posted by Joe28

I did the re-evaluation. It included 1 hour of sitting on the couch talking to a psychologist. He asked me questions from a sheet that the FAA gave him. These questions included everything and anything, including going back to all the places I have lived, what grades I received in grammar, middle, high school, and college. Traumatic events in my life. We talked about stuff that happened 7-8 years ago that I was not prepared to talk about and it was hard.

After that, I retook the exact same MMPI-2 that I took at the PEPC, 567 questions all in the same order. I thought this was weird because both the FAA and the psychologist told me I will be taking the long version of the test, and it ended up being the same exact test. Then I took a similar test to the MMPI-2, a T/F test with 175 questions. Then a test with around 400 questions with 4 answer choices (False, Slightly True, Mostly True, Very True).

I took my time answering all the questions honestly and I was there about 5 hours total. The psychologist sends his notes from the 1 hour session and the 3 tests to the FAA and they make their decision.

This is very similar to my experience. Although when I asked my psychologist she said that she had her own questions but they are very similar to yours. It's a really long day but not that bad, you only talk to the psychologist for 45 minutes or so. The worst part is you leave the office not knowing if you did well or not.

As for the whole process, it seems to add atleast two months and up to five months to get cleared. I just found out I was cleared and it took just over two months to find out. From the people I have talked to only one did not get cleared out of about five or so. Hopefully, this helps some people that are worrying about what happens now. I know I was in the same situation a couple months ago.

Also, make sure you call because, from my experience, they are not going to call you. I was calling them pretty much every week till I found out.

[Wyopoke79]

Originally Posted by RobertB

That sucks...

I agree.

Keep your head up Joe....

[Raydon]

just got some good factodal informationage from a reliabilified source the other evening regardilating the MMPI.

My uncle's taken the MMPI numerous times as a pilot.. including some pretty intense MMPI testing for carrying a firearm in the cockpit (he's a senior captain in the airlines)

Turns out the questions that we're all worrying about aren't really there to psycho-analyse us (for the most part.. there is SOME crazy-person indication in the questions).

What they're looking for is consistency. They don't care if you're constipated from time to time.. they just want to make sure you say you're constipated from time to time.. every time they ASK you.

catch my drift? consistency is the key. and then.. well.. yeah if you answer "true" to "I daydream about boomersooner and bippoptl getting it on in a tub of chocolate while petting my imaginary pink elephant"... they might fail you anyway...

[FM_Weasel]

Originally Posted by Raydon

and then.. well.. yeah if you answer "true" to "I daydream about boomersooner and bippoptl getting it on in a tub of chocolate while petting my imaginary pink elephant"... they might fail you anyway...

Dang. I could have sworn that was for bonus points.

[Joe28]

Originally Posted by Wyopoke79

I agree.

Keep your head up Joe....

thanks i appreciate it.

glad to hear your medical went well

[Joe28]

Originally Posted by sampson

This is very similar to my experience. Although when I asked my psychologist she said that she had her own questions but they are very similar to yours. It's a really long day but not that bad, you only talk to the psychologist for 45 minutes or so. The worst part is you leave the office not knowing if you did well or not.

As for the whole process, it seems to add atleast two months and up to five months to get cleared. I just found out I was cleared and it took just over two months to find out. From the people I have talked to only one did not get cleared out of about five or so. Hopefully, this helps some people that are worrying about what happens now. I know I was in the same situation a couple months ago.

Also, make sure you call because, from my experience, they are not going to call you. I was calling them pretty much every week till I found out.

is the 2 months how long it took just to find your results from the re-eval or 2 months since you were notified you failed the MMPI?

[sampson]

Originally Posted by Joe28

is the 2 months how long it took just to find your results from the re-eval or 2 months since you were notified you failed the MMPI?

2 months after the re-eval.

[ajw204]

god this is terrible, i guess i'll be doing the same thing as you Joe...i JUST got my TOL a few days ago, and am trying to schedule a physical. from there i should get my re-evaluation. what a pain in the ass.

btw i THOUGHT i was consistent everytime they asked me some question i'm positive i answered it the same way. for example "do you think people are following you?" of course not, and i was asked that many many times. so i don't know wtf to do seeing that i "failed" it already...

[Joe28]

Originally Posted by ajw204

god this is terrible, i guess i'll be doing the same thing as you Joe...i JUST got my TOL a few days ago, and am trying to schedule a physical. from there i should get my re-evaluation. what a pain in the ass.

btw i THOUGHT i was consistent everytime they asked me some question i'm positive i answered it the same way. for example "do you think people are following you?" of course not, and i was asked that many many times. so i don't know wtf to do seeing that i "failed" it already...

The psych told me a lot of people taking this test take it as a job interview, which is it not meant to be. Therefore, many people answer true / false according to what they think the employer wants to hear. There are several validity scales built into the test that can detect stuff such as lies, making yourself look bad (underconfidence), or making yourself look too good (most common problem). I guess they don't expect everyone to like mechanics magazines, fixing door latches, and being librarians. You will retake the same test plus 2 additional ones and a 1 hour session on the couch with a psychologist. It's a long process and it sucks to have these extra steps but hey long as we get through it, right?

Good luck.

[selcuktyilmaz1980]

Well my appointment is today and I plan to go in there and be completely honest. To be sincere, I feel that I did sort of try to stay on the positive side to make myself look good.

I can remember a couple of examples of where I may have contradicted myself. Against my better judgment, I answered a question like "I always tell the truth" as True (of course not, no one does)...then turn around and answer a similar question such as "I have never lied" False...so I remember a few like this and this is most likely what triggered a negative score on my behalf. Today the key is going to be to answer everything honestly and take whatever decision that comes out of this with sincere understanding. I understand that this is a very important job with complexity, so I'll do myself a favor and not pose as something other than who I am, we'll see if I fit the personality they are looking for. I am confident that I can do this job...I hope everyone that has to go through this step ends up happy with the outcome.

[FM_Weasel]

With that kind of attitude, I'd bet money you'll do fine.

[MIA bound]

Originally Posted by selcuktyilmaz1980

Well my appointment is today and I plan to go in there and be completely honest. To be sincere, I feel that I did sort of try to stay on the positive side to make myself look good.

I can remember a couple of examples of where I may have contradicted myself. Against my better judgment, I answered a question like "I always tell the truth" as True (of course not, no one does)...then turn around and answer a similar question such as "I have never lied" False...so I remember a few like this and this is most likely what triggered a negative score on my behalf. Today the key is going to be to answer everything honestly and take whatever decision that comes out of this with sincere understanding. I understand that this is a very important job with complexity, so I'll do myself a favor and not pose as something other than who I am, we'll see if I fit the personality they are looking for. I am confident that I can do this job...I hope everyone that has to go through this step ends up happy with the outcome.

I agree that with that attitude youll be fine. I hope it went well. Any suggestions from this group of people who already took this test for someone who will be taking it soon? It seems like don't rush this test. Be totally honest dont look at it in the stand point of trying to empress an employer just say the truth and there are some odd questions. If you fail, other seemingly sain people have to and its just a hickup in your hiring process but after an re eval. youll be on your way again. Anything on top of that?

I'd be willing to bet money Joe will be fine too, ps if anyone is down on not passing this test or even anything they can always PM jermcentral he seems to have a positive attitude and some good insight.

[Joe28]

thanks

I'm keeping my fingers crossed. Unfortunately, I don't think I will even find out the results for a while.

[selcuktyilmaz1980]

Originally Posted by FM_Weasel

With that kind of attitude, I'd bet money you'll do fine.

Originally Posted by MIA bound

I agree that with that attitude youll be fine. I hope it went well. Any suggestions from this group of people who already took this test for someone who will be taking it soon? It seems like don't rush this test. Be totally honest dont look at it in the stand point of trying to empress an employer just say the truth and there are some odd questions. If you fail, other seemingly sain people have to and its just a hickup in your hiring process but after an re eval. youll be on your way again. Anything on top of that?

I'd be willing to bet money Joe will be fine too, ps if anyone is down on not passing this test or even anything they can always PM jermcentral he seems to have a positive attitude and some good insight.

I appreciate the input guys...well, let me talk about my day a little bit. I am guessing this re-eval is not the same for everyone. I have read previous posts on what others went through, so this is my day in a recap;

I went in and was met by the physcologist who then took me into a room and gave me about 4 packets of paperwork; the MMPI-2 (and yes, they do tell you its the extended version but it was the same one we took at the PEPC-576 questions), another paperwork with 175 questions on it (it was in the true, slightly true, very true, false format), then about 200 more True or False
questions...and finally a personality questionnaire that was a shorter version of the SF-86. This was really the one that was a burden, I mean having to fill out my employment history, credit history, and criminal history seemed a bit redundant after I had already filled out and turned in a books worth of questions on the security clearance side of things...Anyways, after about 5 hours of filling out questions I had my interview with the Doctor.

What surprised me was that after all this paperwork I had expected to have a talk with the Doctor about myself and my life. Instead, he had me do a series of tests that involved memorizing a series of numbers and repeating them back, then the same thing but I had to repeat the numbers back in reverse order...Math word problems followed this and finally some number and letter connecting problems on paper. When all this was completed we talked about me and he asked some questions from the personality paperwork involving my background and employment history, etc...the whole ordeal was pleasant but it was a bit tiring...now the waiting continues.

[MIA bound]

Originally Posted by selcuktyilmaz1980

I appreciate the input guys...well, let me talk about my day a little bit. I am guessing this re-eval is not the same for everyone. I have read previous posts on what others went through, so this is my day in a recap.

This process seems a bit annouying, but other than that and being super annouyed that you have to wait a little longer (by little I mean a couple months) once your lookin down a scope in the center you want! youll probably think that was a drop in the bucket to get hear and well worth it. I'm sure you did fine

[Joe28]

Originally Posted by selcuktyilmaz1980

I appreciate the input guys...well, let me talk about my day a little bit. I am guessing this re-eval is not the same for everyone. I have read previous posts on what others went through, so this is my day in a recap;

I went in and was met by the physcologist who then took me into a room and gave me about 4 packets of paperwork; the MMPI-2 (and yes, they do tell you its the extended version but it was the same one we took at the PEPC-576 questions), another paperwork with 175 questions on it (it was in the true, slightly true, very true, false format), then about 200 more True or False
questions...and finally a personality questionnaire that was a shorter version of the SF-86. This was really the one that was a burden, I mean having to fill out my employment history, credit history, and criminal history seemed a bit redundant after I had already filled out and turned in a books worth of questions on the security clearance side of things...Anyways, after about 5 hours of filling out questions I had my interview with the Doctor.

What surprised me was that after all this paperwork I had expected to have a talk with the Doctor about myself and my life. Instead, he had me do a series of tests that involved memorizing a series of numbers and repeating them back, then the same thing but I had to repeat the numbers back in reverse order...Math word problems followed this and finally some number and letter connecting problems on paper. When all this was completed we talked about me and he asked some questions from the personality paperwork involving my background and employment history, etc...the whole ordeal was pleasant but it was a bit tiring...now the waiting continues.

wow that is way different than what I had to do.

[lazerr11]

Originally Posted by selcuktyilmaz1980

I appreciate the input guys...well, let me talk about my day a little bit. I am guessing this re-eval is not the same for everyone. I have read previous posts on what others went through, so this is my day in a recap;

I went in and was met by the physcologist who then took me into a room and gave me about 4 packets of paperwork; the MMPI-2 (and yes, they do tell you its the extended version but it was the same one we took at the PEPC-576 questions), another paperwork with 175 questions on it (it was in the true, slightly true, very true, false format), then about 200 more True or False
questions...and finally a personality questionnaire that was a shorter version of the SF-86. This was really the one that was a burden, I mean having to fill out my employment history, credit history, and criminal history seemed a bit redundant after I had already filled out and turned in a books worth of questions on the security clearance side of things...Anyways, after about 5 hours of filling out questions I had my interview with the Doctor.

What surprised me was that after all this paperwork I had expected to have a talk with the Doctor about myself and my life. Instead, he had me do a series of tests that involved memorizing a series of numbers and repeating them back, then the same thing but I had to repeat the numbers back in reverse order...Math word problems followed this and finally some number and letter connecting problems on paper. When all this was completed we talked about me and he asked some questions from the personality paperwork involving my background and employment history, etc...the whole ordeal was pleasant but it was a bit tiring...now the waiting continues.

I had a similar day question wise from the psychologist, with the numbers and work history etc. The order was different though. I also did the 567 question MMPI and another test with 344 False, Slightly True, Mostly True and Very True answers. There were no 200 or 175 question tests for me.

[GSO_Bound]

Does anyone else in this situation feel like the butt of a cruel "Yo Momma..." joke? Something like, "You're so stupid you couldn't even pass a personality test..." I'm in Charlotte and I had to go see a psych. The whole process took several hours, with the interview, the new MMPI, and the inkblot tests.