It's not that hard...

dhc2tacksby · October 19th, 2009, 11:31

To deny a clearance if you don't thnk you can accomplish it safely.

Yeah I'm talking to you MYF instructor from Sunday afternoon.

meyers9163 · October 19th, 2009, 12:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by dhc2tacksby

To deny a clearance if you don't thnk you can accomplish it safely.

Yeah I'm talking to you MYF instructor from Sunday afternoon.

Say what again?

dhc2tacksby · October 19th, 2009, 13:33

They were given a clearance, took their sweet time complying then committed an act the FAA, AOPA and a handful of other organizations talk about pretty much every month.

So bottom line, if you accept the clearance-do it. If you can't do it safely say, " tower, unable"

SpiraMirabilis · October 19th, 2009, 13:47

Eh?

meyers9163 · October 19th, 2009, 15:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpiraMirabilis

Eh?

Yeah I'm still lost as to what the rant is about....

AP2B · October 19th, 2009, 15:14

(Thinks to self) Was it in the air, or on the ground?

I like this game.

dhc2tacksby · October 19th, 2009, 15:16

Ahh hell.

Dude in the Seminole was cleared to taxi across when we were 1 mile final. Decide not to start moving until we were over the numbers. Having a few hours in the ol beast myself I know it's a handful taxiing straight ahead (yes that was sarcasm)

meyers9163 · October 19th, 2009, 15:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by dhc2tacksby

Ahh hell.

Dude in the Seminole was cleared to taxi across when we were 1 mile final. Decide not to start moving until we were over the numbers. Having a few hours in the ol beast myself I know it's a handful taxiing straight ahead (yes that was sarcasm)

Eh.... Sounds like an ATC mistake as well. If the seminole didnt start moving they should have had him stay put after a slight delay. Did it cause you to go around or something? I see these things nearly every day and never think of making a huge deal about them. Annoying perhaps, but at times you have to let your students make their own mistakes and make it a teaching moment...

Old Pete · October 19th, 2009, 15:23

Alright I'll speculate. An ATP seminole was cleared for an immediate take off and he's ticked off because he had to do a go around. But if he just flew a normal approach (instead of a short approach) the spacing would have been fine.

meyers9163 · October 19th, 2009, 15:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old Pete

Alright I'll speculate. An ATP seminole was cleared for an immediate take off and he's ticked off because he had to do a go around. But if he just flew a normal approach (instead of a short approach) the spacing would have been fine.

Old Pete, you missed it already... He put the reason...

dhc2tacksby · October 19th, 2009, 15:33

Ironically I just taught the student about "go-around" the previous touch and go so he was on the ball in that sense.

The pilot (ATP) should have better sense to start taxiing across the runway when there is a plane 30' over the threshold.

LoadMasterC141 · October 19th, 2009, 15:37

Actually given the whole story, I would say it is a little tough. Sounds like ATC cleared them to cross and you were close on final. The instructor and the student second guess ATC's clearance and check it out for themselves before moving (as they should). Once they realize there is enough time, the student probably looks at the instructor for confirmation. The instructor tells the student to hurry up. Off they go, but too late now. And you had to go around.

Sounds like a good learning experience all around. Tower should have paid more attention. Seminole should have moved faster or denied clearance. You could have even done something, like maybe slow down as much as possible (If you had not already)

Baronpilot244 · October 19th, 2009, 15:40

Just curious, did you call/visit the tower to have a "chat" about your experience?

BP244

Old Pete · October 19th, 2009, 16:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by meyers9163

Old Pete, you missed it already... He put the reason...

I thought I was pretty close with what I was working with. Started the reply before he posted that. just a little slow on the submit button.

AP2B · October 19th, 2009, 18:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoadMasterC141

Actually given the whole story, I would say it is a little tough. Sounds like ATC cleared them to cross and you were close on final. The instructor and the student second guess ATC's clearance and check it out for themselves before moving (as they should). Once they realize there is enough time, the student probably looks at the instructor for confirmation. The instructor tells the student to hurry up. Off they go, but too late now. And you had to go around.

Sounds like a good learning experience all around. Tower should have paid more attention. Seminole should have moved faster or denied clearance. You could have even done something, like maybe slow down as much as possible (If you had not already)

It was Y O U!

mxflyer · October 20th, 2009, 01:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoadMasterC141

Sounds like a good learning experience all around. Tower should have paid more attention. Seminole should have moved faster or denied clearance. You could have even done something, like maybe slow down as much as possible (If you had not already)

Or verify your landing clearance. That's not that hard either, and it reminds tower that there's possibly a situation. Also, If you think that these situations stop outside of the training environment your wrong. I can't count how often thats happened in ATL.

Remember, Pilots and controllers are people, people make mistakes. The bottom line is that its up to all of us to be safe. Whether you think its your fault or not.

SpiraMirabilis · October 20th, 2009, 23:57

Kind of silly to get worked up after having to go around. It's not your runway until your mains touch down. Just look at it like an extra .1 for your logbook and a reason to train how to do go arounds.

dhc2tacksby · October 21st, 2009, 15:28

No, it's my runway when I get clearance to land. It doesn't mean that I'm going to land though.

Also I'm not instructing to build flight time, I have enough time to get me into trouble elsewhere.

mshunter · October 21st, 2009, 21:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by dhc2tacksby

No, it's my runway when I get clearance to land. It doesn't mean that I'm going to land though.

Also I'm not instructing to build flight time, I have enough time to get me into trouble elsewhere.

It's actually never your runway. The controler is just nice enough to let you play on it. Why do you think they let you know that sometimes they are "departing one" prior to you. So, do you still think it was the Seminoles fault, or the controlers fault for not leaving enough space?

I vote for the controler, since he'd be the one getting in trouble. A clearance is permission to use whatever you have asked to use, nothing else. Remember, you to were once a novice aviator, and may have been the harkening of someone elses woah's.

dhc2tacksby · October 22nd, 2009, 02:16

I have no doubt I was the harkening of someone elses woah's.
The controller gives me a yardstick every time they give me a clearance; it's up to me as the pilot/PIC to use 1" or the whole yard safely.

Like I've said in the previous post's to this thread, it was whoever was touching the controls of the Seminole who made a poor decision.

meyers9163 · October 22nd, 2009, 12:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by dhc2tacksby

No, it's my runway when I get clearance to land. It doesn't mean that I'm going to land though.

Eh... Its really not your runway until your wheels touch down and then you can do as you please with the amount you use etc.... However until your wheels are down ATC can still make you go around etc and controls what you do...

PGT · October 22nd, 2009, 12:49

I'm willing to bet money the controller told the holding short traffic that an airplane was on a 1 mi. final when he issued the crossing clearance.

Sorry but I blame the guy taking his sweet time to cross for being an idiot and causing a runway incursion.

meyers9163 · October 22nd, 2009, 13:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by PGT

I'm willing to bet money the controller told the holding short traffic that an airplane was on a 1 mi. final when he issued the crossing clearance.

Sorry but I blame the guy taking his sweet time to cross for being an idiot and causing a runway incursion.

Not really an incursion.... Never got to that point... He went around and its a NON event...

ppragman · October 22nd, 2009, 14:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by dhc2tacksby

No, it's my runway when I get clearance to land. It doesn't mean that I'm going to land though.

Also I'm not instructing to build flight time, I have enough time to get me into trouble elsewhere.

Actually, its not really your runway unless you declare (then you can land on the taxiway, ramp, top of that long set of t-hangars,etc), otherwise, the tower can give you a go-around any time really.

LoadMasterC141 · October 22nd, 2009, 17:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by PGT

I'm willing to bet money the controller told the holding short traffic that an airplane was on a 1 mi. final when he issued the crossing clearance.

Sorry but I blame the guy taking his sweet time to cross for being an idiot and causing a runway incursion.

Certainly not an incursion. Certainly should have moved a bit faster. Certainly was not there and know there is ALWAYS more than one side too a story, and the actual event always differs from individual recollection.

Happens everyday though. Make a mistake once, learn from it. Make a mistake twice, you have a learning problem.

October 19th, 2009, 11:31	#1
dhc2tacksby Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: San Diego Posts: 223	It's not that hard... To deny a clearance if you don't thnk you can accomplish it safely. Yeah I'm talking to you MYF instructor from Sunday afternoon. __________________ Si vis pacem, para bellum!!!!!!! *Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes*

October 19th, 2009, 13:33	#3
dhc2tacksby Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: San Diego Posts: 223	Re: It's not that hard... They were given a clearance, took their sweet time complying then committed an act the FAA, AOPA and a handful of other organizations talk about pretty much every month. So bottom line, if you accept the clearance-do it. If you can't do it safely say, " tower, unable" __________________ Si vis pacem, para bellum!!!!!!! *Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes*

October 19th, 2009, 13:47	#4
SpiraMirabilis Old Skool Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 3,345 Blog Entries: 1	Re: It's not that hard... Eh? __________________ Yet Another Freight Puppy*

October 19th, 2009, 15:14	#6
AP2B Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: IND Posts: 843	Re: It's not that hard... (Thinks to self) Was it in the air, or on the ground? I like this game. __________________

October 19th, 2009, 15:16	#7
dhc2tacksby Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: San Diego Posts: 223	Re: It's not that hard... Ahh hell. Dude in the Seminole was cleared to taxi across when we were 1 mile final. Decide not to start moving until we were over the numbers. Having a few hours in the ol beast myself I know it's a handful taxiing straight ahead (yes that was sarcasm) __________________ Si vis pacem, para bellum!!!!!!! *Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes*

October 19th, 2009, 15:23	#9
Old Pete Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: the city too busy to hate Posts: 1,000	Re: It's not that hard... Alright I'll speculate. An ATP seminole was cleared for an immediate take off and he's ticked off because he had to do a go around. But if he just flew a normal approach (instead of a short approach) the spacing would have been fine. __________________ "Ya'll come again"

October 19th, 2009, 15:33	#11
dhc2tacksby Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: San Diego Posts: 223	Re: It's not that hard... Ironically I just taught the student about "go-around" the previous touch and go so he was on the ball in that sense. The pilot (ATP) should have better sense to start taxiing across the runway when there is a plane 30' over the threshold. __________________ Si vis pacem, para bellum!!!!!!! *Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes*

October 19th, 2009, 15:37	#12
LoadMasterC141 Old Skool Join Date: May 2006 Location: Live in Arlington, TX - From Ithaca, NY - Wish I was on an island in Fiji Posts: 2,404	Re: It's not that hard... Actually given the whole story, I would say it is a little tough. Sounds like ATC cleared them to cross and you were close on final. The instructor and the student second guess ATC's clearance and check it out for themselves before moving (as they should). Once they realize there is enough time, the student probably looks at the instructor for confirmation. The instructor tells the student to hurry up. Off they go, but too late now. And you had to go around. Sounds like a good learning experience all around. Tower should have paid more attention. Seminole should have moved faster or denied clearance. You could have even done something, like maybe slow down as much as possible (If you had not already) __________________ AMEL, ASEL, IFR Gold Seal Instructor, CFI, CFII, MEI, IGI 1310TT 620ME (135 mins! I can haz job now?) Ex- USAF C141B Crewmember Ex- Cube Monkey Getting paid to fly! (little stuff)

October 19th, 2009, 15:40	#13
Baronpilot244 Junior Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Atlanta Posts: 176	Re: It's not that hard... Just curious, did you call/visit the tower to have a "chat" about your experience? BP244 __________________ Is this your idea of fun, Maverick? - Goose RIP

October 20th, 2009, 23:57	#17
SpiraMirabilis Old Skool Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 3,345 Blog Entries: 1	Re: It's not that hard... Kind of silly to get worked up after having to go around. It's not your runway until your mains touch down. Just look at it like an extra .1 for your logbook and a reason to train how to do go arounds. __________________ Yet Another Freight Puppy*

October 21st, 2009, 15:28	#18
dhc2tacksby Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: San Diego Posts: 223	Re: It's not that hard... No, it's my runway when I get clearance to land. It doesn't mean that I'm going to land though. Also I'm not instructing to build flight time, I have enough time to get me into trouble elsewhere. __________________ Si vis pacem, para bellum!!!!!!! *Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes*

October 22nd, 2009, 02:16	#20
dhc2tacksby Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: San Diego Posts: 223	Re: It's not that hard... I have no doubt I was the harkening of someone elses woah's. The controller gives me a yardstick every time they give me a clearance; it's up to me as the pilot/PIC to use 1" or the whole yard safely. Like I've said in the previous post's to this thread, it was whoever was touching the controls of the Seminole who made a poor decision. __________________ Si vis pacem, para bellum!!!!!!! *Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes* Last edited by dhc2tacksby; October 22nd, 2009 at 02:20.

October 22nd, 2009, 12:49	#22
PGT Old Skool Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: IA Posts: 4,343	Re: It's not that hard... I'm willing to bet money the controller told the holding short traffic that an airplane was on a 1 mi. final when he issued the crossing clearance. Sorry but I blame the guy taking his sweet time to cross for being an idiot and causing a runway incursion. __________________ College Student 270/20. CSEL/CMEL. CFI soon. 11/20 PUNBAT 8. "The good old days weren't all that good, and tomorrow's not as bad as it seems"

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