my app got accepted

[schuh]

My app got accepted for going to ATP. My parents cosigned for me. What interest rates are you guys getting? I got one at 13.8%. So terrible. Not taking that one. Still waiting on the others.

Also where did you choose to get the loan through??

Thanks any help would be great

[vheissu]

Don't do it.

[KTRN]

Like the guy above said, don't do it. Have you looked at other options for training? I'm sure you can go somewhere else w/o getting a huge loan.

[BTAcola]

OH MY GAWD!!! dont go to ATP.. there is a better way!!!!!!!!!! Seriously! I have TONS of students who went to ATP and LEFT to come fly with me .. do NOT go there!!!!!!!!

[DL31082]

I'm not going to say "dont do it" because I don't know your situation. I will say don't do the Gulfstream program that they are promoting right now. 13% seems really high to me, but I got my loan before the bottom fell out of the loan market. I am paying around 5% right now and have a 596 dollar payment on 80K. So just think about how much more 13 percent will be. That being said make sure you check all avialable options in your area. I went through ATP from Dec 07 to May 08. Now I work at a local flight school so I know both sides. If you have any questions I'd be more then willing to help, just PM me. Good luck and have fun.

[matt152]

Originally Posted by schuh

My app got accepted for going to ATP. My parents cosigned for me. What interest rates are you guys getting? I got one at 13.8%. So terrible. Not taking that one. Still waiting on the others.

Also where did you choose to get the loan through??

Thanks any help would be great

I went through Wachovia and got a reasonable rate, but I hear they are not offering work training loans anymore.

Current prime rate is 3.25% according to http://www.bankrate.com/rates/intere...rime-rate.aspx

If you can get a cosigner with good credit you might consider the current prime to be your target rate. Credit is relatively cheap right now. If you cannot get a lower rate than 13.8%, you might consider pay-as-you-go to pay for your training.

[mxflyer]

Don't finance it. That interest is probably compounded daily. I recommend ATP but don't finance it.

[jspeed87]

Look into Ari ben Aviator. They have federal loans and are easy to get with your parents. The Interest rate is lower too. I'm here right now. 11.2 flight hours!

[poser765]

Dude seriously pay as you go. There is absolutely NO reason to drop 40 big for flight training all at once right now. I am amazed that there are still people starting accelerated programs right now. Sure they may advertise they can get you done in six months but then what? You are not going to get an airline job in 6 months.

Also this industry pays bad enough as it is for those just starting out...don't make it harder on yourself by starting out with huge loan repayments every month.

[SpiraMirabilis]

Theres no rush at the present time and that's ATP's main marketing gimmick. ATP's UCPP -- Unemployed Career Pilot Program, 90 days from zero to not having a job.

The training I got at ATP was very good though. If money isn't a priority for you then I could recommend it, but if youre borrowing money then money should be your priority.

[ADIZFlyboy]

theres no point to rush into flight training. many places are laying off CFI's. running through things in 90 days is pointless where it gets you no further ahead. save up money and take your time.

[USMC-SSGT]

Originally Posted by SpiraMirabilis

Theres no rush at the present time and that's ATP's main marketing gimmick. ATP's UCPP -- Unemployed Career Pilot Program, 90 days from zero to not having a job.

Wow, never thought of that but so true. What do you honestly think the market would look like for someone who has been flying for less than 6 months total in their life and has 250-300 hours total experience in TWO makes and models and zero dual given time? Everyone needs to start somewhere so it would not be a waste but it would be a waste of money since there is no hurry right now.

Cant imagine in todays market they would be a hot commodity.

[CRJDriver]

I agree with the above posters! I went to ATP many years ago, when it was still somewhat reasonably priced. Right now I wouldn't recommend ANYONE going there anymore for several reasons. Program Cost, Gulfstream Partnership, State of Industry, etc.

[mxflyer]

Originally Posted by ADIZFlyboy

theres no point to rush into flight training. many places are laying off CFI's. running through things in 90 days is pointless where it gets you no further ahead. save up money and take your time.

I agree: Save your money and take your time. However, I liked the training I got at ATP and would recommend the program. At this time not the 90 day program, but the self paced program. Its more of a pay-as-you-go program. They say 8 months but I know they go longer.

But don't go into debt over it and get a degree that is worth something, Computer Science, Engineering, Physics, etc. You will likely need it.

If you have to finance something finance a degree. You'll have lower interest rates, grants, scholarships and a job waiting at the other side. You're not going to get any of those in aviation.

[Brian Z]

Do not do it. Interest alone will start at 500/mo. Download a free amoraztion(sp) spreadsheet and let the numbers tell you the truth. You will be shocked to find out the total cost of the loan. Do you and your parents a favor and pay as you go.

[surreal1221]

DO IT! GET IN DEBT! GO BANKRUPT.



Seriously, save yourself and the nation the pain of more people with unstable finances.

[ADIZFlyboy]

you should also look at it this way-if youre doing the training quickly to get out and build experience, ATP's waitlist for instructors is 80+ people long and for the most part the guys at the training center are staying put. i would count on coming out of the chute and looking for a job elsewhere (likely at a local flight school). you are better off saving your self the debt, going to a local flight school with a twin (you could do an ATP-esque style program that focuses on multi time and get your 100 hrs.), get it done for less money, get all your ratings, probably be in a better position to get a job with them and not in a bunch of crazy debt on top of that. as a side bonus, if you do it with someone who has been instructing for a while (ie. thousands of hours of dual given), you will learn a lot more than just the PTS for each of your ratings.

[Socal321]

DON'T DO IT. There is absolutely no reason to go to ATP now. Do not touch anything that ATP gives you to help financing, you will pay at least 30% more for the whole training!!!! By the way, they accept anyone, it's not a bank.

[MOONWOLF]

Another reason not to do it.

My roommate and I both cfi-cfii-mei's, he has been flying for 1.5 years, i've been flying for 5.

He is 80,000+ in debt, with less hours than me.
I'm only +20,000 in debt and have more time and experience than him.

In my opinion pilots from ATP are rushed through something it takes a good while to understand.

[MReiser81]

Originally Posted by ADIZFlyboy

you should also look at it this way-if youre doing the training quickly to get out and build experience, ATP's waitlist for instructors is 80+ people long and for the most part the guys at the training center are staying put. i would count on coming out of the chute and looking for a job elsewhere (likely at a local flight school). .

Totally agree. Get it done at a FBO and try to get a job there after. I also agree that ATP is way too fast of a program. 3 months to learn all those ratings is way too fast IMO. I gotta believe that someone going to an FBO (like me) that takes their time learning and fully understands ALL the concepts will be a much better pilot than someone coming out of a Pilot Mill in 3 months with the minimums to pass an exam. Its almost scary, and after the recent issues with Regional Airlines and the experience/hours of the pilots, Ive heard rumors that the FAA is cracking down on places like ATP and their "in house" examiners.

Dont get me wrong, Ive strongly considered ATP in the past, (couple years ago) but with the way the airline hiring is going, the economy, the CFI wait list (@atp) and a number of other factors, Ive decided to go to a local (and much better) FBO. Just put in the same effort at your local FBO that you would at ATP. Allright im done. Sorry for the rant, and dont hate...im only being real! yeeeeah.

[schuh]

Thanks for all the info guys. I am going to talk to Skywalk flight school in sacramento tomorrow. I have heard good things about that flight school. Anyone have any comments about them?

[ADIZFlyboy]

Having experienced both sides of this, ATP does a good job with the crew experience and their add-on stuff for the higher up ratings (ATP, MEI- Comm. Multi) is actually not too bad if you need to knock out a rating in a weekend/week. Past that, I cant really recommend it for learning the basics of aviation-there's just too much stuff to need to rush through. Many there will tell you that you're "learning for the airlines" which frankly is short-sighted. Yes, 121 training is fast-paced but when you have 1000+ hours and you understand the basics of aviation already, its not as big of a jump as you're learning the complexities of a specific airframe vs. aviation as a whole. The big thing is the instructors-lots of good ones in there but frankly some are just there to build time and with the industry what it is there are a good amount of those who you can tell just want to jump at the first airline that starts hiring vs. spending time to ensure you're learning.

I would say take your time, get your ratings, get a good instructing job, maybe a good 91/135 job on the side if it happens your way. If you need to slap on an ATP/MEI rating, ATP isnt a bad option because at least by that point you're flying regularly so adding on something isnt as big a step.

A big thing that stuck with me was different examiners commenting positively on the habits of pilots who have flown elsewhere before going to ATP on having solid basic piloting skills and ADM vs. those that have come in with 0 hours. That spoke volumes. One thing I really wonder what their first time pass rate is nationally compared to other flight schools/national average for part 61 programs?

[3green]

Yes, 121 training is fast-paced but when you have 1000+ hours and you understand the basics of aviation already, its not as big of a jump as you're learning the complexities of a specific airframe vs. aviation as a whole.

Thats completely true. Do the FBO thing, there are plenty of people who go to 121 training and do well and past. I did it. Dollar for dollar you'd be stupid to go pay big bucks for a shot at a low paying FO job when you can do it for less.

I did have sim instructors in groundschool at my airline mention that those that did accelerated programs had less of an understanding of basic airmanship concepts. That is their personal experiences and opinions. So take it with a grain of salt. I think you get good and bad from either experience FBO vs ATP. All your doing is accellerating your way to debt and unemployment right now.

Just because someone sells you the idea that you need to spend big bucks and do their program to make it as an airline pilot is selling snake-oil. Especially in this industry the way it is now. I wouldn't even consider taking a loan for 13%. Can't believe anyone would believe its ok to do that. Then again like others have said, now we know why the economy is the way it is...

[SpiraMirabilis]

Test of ATP grad's skills - can he or she shoot an NDB approach on a windy day? I never did any NDB approaches while at ATP, it was one of the things that I did feel like I was short changed. I managed to learn them afterwards, while flight instructing -- but seriously now.

[JOEFRIDAY2]

Oh, is this a can of worms!

If at all possible go to your local FBO and get your ratings. (Private, Instrument, Single Commercial) and pay as you go.

Have some fun and actually ENJOY flying. Don't try to rush these things. You'll get great training and you'll save a bunch of money because you can keep your present job and you can keep living where you are presently living!

If you can commit to flying 2 days a week then you will fly about 156 hours a year plus the time you can take to rent a plane, split the cost with your friends and actually fly some cross country trips to somewhere nice! (after you get your Private)

This will take you just over 18 months (not much more time than one of the "fast track" flight schools which take 11-14 months under the best of circumstances) to accomplish all of your ratings and you won't go into heavy debt and you will have more fun doing it.

Flying is a fun activity to share with your non-flying friends! If you can spit the cost of renting a 172 among 4 people the cost comes way down and you get to log the time.

Also for your birthday, Christmas, graduation, etc you can ask your friends and relatives to buy you an hour or more of flight time at the FBO.

You're hard to buy presents for anyway so you have just made their job so much easier and they can feel good about giving you something that you really need.

After you have your ratings you can get your multi add on and airline transition course at ATP if you want to go the career route.

Remember ratings are ratings. In the end no one cares if you got them from an FBO, a CFI with a plane or a flight academy. They all mean the same in the end. The pay will be the same no matter where you obtained them.