my app got accepted

[SkyFlier33]

nuball5, thanks for heads up. Though I think they only have the self-paced program, for me it would mean years to get the ratings. Especially with the winter coming up.
I went with PHX, hopefully will be done with everything in a few months
By the way, don't they offer loans with PNC? They had a pretty good rate.

[wrxpilot]

Originally Posted by DL31082

I'm not going to say "dont do it" because I don't know your situation. I will say don't do the Gulfstream program that they are promoting right now. 13% seems really high to me, but I got my loan before the bottom fell out of the loan market. I am paying around 5% right now and have a 596 dollar payment on 80K. So just think about how much more 13 percent will be. That being said make sure you check all avialable options in your area. I went through ATP from Dec 07 to May 08. Now I work at a local flight school so I know both sides. If you have any questions I'd be more then willing to help, just PM me. Good luck and have fun.

I'm in my 3rd year of professional flying and would be so screwed with a $600/mo loan payment... Be careful guys, think about your future.

[nuball5]

Actually I know that they have a couple 90-day students at Trenton. But Phoenix is really nice. I got to fly there on my cross countries. First class facility and the apartment I stayed at was pretty comfortable. Good luck!

[bunghole]

Hogwash!

[SkyFlier33]

Originally Posted by nuball5

Actually I know that they have a couple 90-day students at Trenton. But Phoenix is really nice. I got to fly there on my cross countries. First class facility and the apartment I stayed at was pretty comfortable. Good luck!

Thanks

Originally Posted by wrxpilot

I'm in my 3rd year of professional flying and would be so screwed with a $600/mo loan payment... Be careful guys, think about your future.

I'd say that if someone is already tight on finances and has a family to support, getting a 60K loan to get into aviation isn't a good idea no matter where you get your ratings or how long it takes you to get them.

But IF one can afford it, ATP might be actually better value than an FBO, IMHO. At least compared to the ridiculous FBO rates in NY-NJ (don't know about other states)

[SpiraMirabilis]

There are some places in the country where ATP will be cheaper than a FBO. Not many, but some. A few places in NJ, NY... maybe a few FBOs in MA, CA actually doesn't seem so expensive.

[LoadMasterC141]

My fight training at small FBOs cost a little over $44k. I got very little ground instruction, flew in pieces of crap, had 34hrs of multi, and had to pay for my own housing. It also took almost two years to complete.

ATPs prices, to me, are not bad at all.

[guywhoflies]

How many total hours (SE and ME) did that include for $44,000 at an FBO?

[juxtapilot]

I'm just going to put it out there that I can't for the life of me imagine why anyone would go into that much debt. If I had a 500 - 600 dollar flt training loan right now life would be pretty rough. Just sayin.

[mojo6911]

Originally Posted by SkyFlier33

By the way, don't they offer loans with PNC? They had a pretty good rate.

Even a good rate, like 6%, is a TON of interest on 15 years, especially when you factor in the current job market.

65k over 15 years, at 6%, is a $548/mo. payment and will be over 33k in interest alone. So you are looking at paying nearly 100k for your flight training if you pay over 15 years.

If you are doing the self paced, and only pay interested on incremental payments, that wouldn't be such a bad deal, I guess. Do you have to pay the loan payment on the lump sum, even while doing self paced?

[SkyFlier33]

Originally Posted by mojo6911

Even a good rate, like 6%, is a TON of interest on 15 years, especially when you factor in the current job market.

65k over 15 years, at 6%, is a $548/mo. payment and will be over 33k in interest alone. So you are looking at paying nearly 100k for your flight training if you pay over 15 years.

If you are doing the self paced, and only pay interested on incremental payments, that wouldn't be such a bad deal, I guess. Do you have to pay the loan payment on the lump sum, even while doing self paced?

I'm doing the 90-day acpp, but pretty sure that as far as the loan goes it doesn't really matter. You still pay the interest on the lump sum. Another thing is that even if you go with the FBO, you still have to get a loan, unless you've got enough savings or can afford paying as you go. These days you're lucky to even get a loan, let alone a good interest rate!

I guess it depends on where you live. Most students in my ex-FBO here in NJ spend 15K+ on their Private, and few go for all of their ratings with them. Might as well just go to ATP and get it over with

[surreal1221]

Originally Posted by CRJDriver

I thought I was watching one of those Sylvan Learning Center or ITT-Tech Commercials, but with airplanes.

Or the UTI Motorcycle mechanic commercials.

Amazing what some of these training establishments have gone to to try to generate business.

[Cactus_Cutter]

Originally Posted by surreal1221

Or the UTI Motorcycle mechanic commercials.

Amazing what some of these training establishments have gone to to try to generate business.

Yeah, you'll be a "Rock Star" in a Siminole starting today and for the next 90 days. After that who knows?

[SkyFlier33]

I'm going to bartend in NYC while looking for a CFI job

[n6149s]

Hmm and how much does that 50 to 60 k loan cost after the 15 years of interest accrue? Seriously does anyone know? anyone that finished 15 years ago?

[3enginejock]

Originally Posted by n6149s

Hmm and how much does that 50 to 60 k loan cost after the 15 years of interest accrue? Seriously does anyone know? anyone that finished 15 years ago?

No one payed 50-60k in training loans 15 years ago. 15 years ago you could get your training done for like 20k or less. Hell, about 10 years ago you could go through the ATP ACPP for like 30k.

[SpiraMirabilis]

Back when I went through the ACPP was like 40k I think? And I was quoted a loan through SLM where I would end up paying 100k, I seriously said 'eff you guys' on the phone. I managed to pay it up front, somehow.

[guywhoflies]

Originally Posted by 3enginejock

No one payed 50-60k in training loans 15 years ago. 15 years ago you could get your training done for like 20k or less. Hell, about 10 years ago you could go through the ATP ACPP for like 30k.

Back in 2003-2004, the ACPP was $27,000. Of course, that was before they had to find a way to pay for D-Jets..

[USRaven]

Wicked. I have been reading the harsh posts on here about my future school. Although I know what I am getting myself into, it makes me a little sick to my stomach reading the criticismI am waiting until the 1st week in OCT to apply for student aid to ATP. I am wanting to go to the 90 day wonder course (GI BILL).

[poser765]

really at this point for me, the cost is not that big of an issue. What I am confused about however is the fact that these programs claim to get you done in a hurry. Why? Is someone going to be hiring in 90 days that I just don't know about? SO lets hurry up and wait.

[USRaven]

Well, in my case, going full time to flight school is time away from ANY sort of income (no matter how small it may be as a pilot). the sooner I am done with school, the sooner I bring TOP RAMEN back to the table to eat.

[guywhoflies]

Originally Posted by USRaven

Well, in my case, going full time to flight school is time away from ANY sort of income (no matter how small it may be as a pilot). the sooner I am done with school, the sooner I bring TOP RAMEN back to the table to eat.

Why limit yourself to income "as a pilot"??? There are plenty of jobs out there that pay more (some even pay A LOT more) that would allow you to provide for yourself and your family and probably come with benefits. You could then do your training on the side and pay for it as you go. If you don't have a 4 year degree and are using your GI Bill for flight training, that is probably a mistake. You can go to school and get the BAH of an E5. Or if you do have your degree, why not use that to get a job (or even a contractor/GS job). I have seen many people use their VA benefits for flight training instead of college and I think most regret it; especially when you consider that after you finish wth ATP then what are you going to do?

Anyway, good luck to you with whatever you choose. I just hate to think that you are going to ATP because you believe it is the only path to earning a paycheck.

[bunghole]

Originally Posted by USRaven

Wicked. I have been reading the harsh posts on here about my future school. Although I know what I am getting myself into, it makes me a little sick to my stomach reading the criticismI am waiting until the 1st week in OCT to apply for student aid to ATP. I am wanting to go to the 90 day wonder course (GI BILL).

Reality kinda sucks, doesnt it?

[SkyFlier33]

Originally Posted by guywhoflies

Why limit yourself to income "as a pilot"??? There are plenty of jobs out there that pay more (some even pay A LOT more) that would allow you to provide for yourself and your family and probably come with benefits. You could then do your training on the side and pay for it as you go. If you don't have a 4 year degree and are using your GI Bill for flight training, that is probably a mistake. You can go to school and get the BAH of an E5. Or if you do have your degree, why not use that to get a job (or even a contractor/GS job). I have seen many people use their VA benefits for flight training instead of college and I think most regret it; especially when you consider that after you finish wth ATP then what are you going to do?

Anyway, good luck to you with whatever you choose. I just hate to think that you are going to ATP because you believe it is the only path to earning a paycheck.

I think what USRaven meant is that the sooner you get done with flight training, the sooner you'll be able to get [some] job and earn [some sort of] money - any kind of money, as opposed to having to spend months and months shuffling a full-or part-time job and 141 FBO training.
How much you'll be making once you're out of ATP - that's another story.

[USRaven]

Originally Posted by guywhoflies

Why limit yourself to income "as a pilot"??? There are plenty of jobs out there that pay more (some even pay A LOT more) that would allow you to provide for yourself and your family and probably come with benefits. You could then do your training on the side and pay for it as you go. If you don't have a 4 year degree and are using your GI Bill for flight training, that is probably a mistake. You can go to school and get the BAH of an E5. Or if you do have your degree, why not use that to get a job (or even a contractor/GS job). I have seen many people use their VA benefits for flight training instead of college and I think most regret it; especially when you consider that after you finish wth ATP then what are you going to do?

Anyway, good luck to you with whatever you choose. I just hate to think that you are going to ATP because you believe it is the only path to earning a paycheck.

(Forgive me for running away with this thread).

Well... I started writing out my life story, until I realized no one cares! HA. Thanks for the input, I am always open to other peoples recommendations and ideas. Ive got experience to fall back on if I need to - in avionics repair and weather forecasting.

As far as the GI BILL... luckily I still have about 10K dollars on the bill left over after flight school to use. When that runs out, the POST 9/11 GI BILL kicks in for AN ADDITIONAL 12 MONTHS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What a freakin deal!!! So... I am jumping all over it.

I am trying out ATP on Wednesday. I am going to pay for the 4 hour G1000 DA40 package. I am excited!!!!