Thinking about ATP - Page 3

Douglas · March 14th, 2009, 03:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisH

For those of you who have attended, or who are currently attending ATP, can you shed some light on your experience.

I disliked my experience, for many reasons, you can PM me if you want to know them. I will say this, they were fast and efficient about giving my money back.

about the money...
http://forums.jetcareers.com/airline...ulti-time.html
It has already been broken down
------

150/hour will get you glass out here or a C-182rg.

Douglas · March 14th, 2009, 03:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChasenSFO

He's lived here in the Bay Area his whole life, and earned his PPL at OAK. He's no stranger to the airspace here. Its more a question of how did he get through the whole program without anyone noticing that he has trouble multi-tasking and is uncomfortable with busy airspace?

I wouldn't worry about ATP because of your friend. Typically ATP is located in pretty congested areas and if they were teaching people who couldn't talk on the radio, it would be found out by now.

ryanmickG · March 14th, 2009, 11:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by juxtapilot

May be on the higher end but it's ignorant to say he's "way off." In this part of the country (PacNW) he's right on.

Maybe so, but there are flight schools all over the country. Most people DO relocate for flight training....... He is WAY OFF!!

Counselor · March 14th, 2009, 11:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Douglas

I disliked my experience, for many reasons, you can PM me if you want to know them. I will say this, they were fast and efficient about giving my money back.

about the money...
http://forums.jetcareers.com/airline...ulti-time.html
It has already been broken down
------

150/hour will get you glass out here or a C-182rg.

What location did you attend?

juxtapilot · March 14th, 2009, 15:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryanmickG

Maybe so, but there are flight schools all over the country. Most people DO relocate for flight training....... He is WAY OFF!!

Yea I don't think so.

Douglas · March 14th, 2009, 19:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Counselor

What location did you attend?

RDU

juxtapilot · March 14th, 2009, 19:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Douglas

RDU

Not a fan of the apartments?

mshunter · March 14th, 2009, 23:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryanmickG

Wow!! You're way off!!

I think its bad form to put a shamless plug of another flight school in ATP's forum, but you're almost 20K high on your numbers.

. Prove it. I see no one else doing a break down like I have, with honest numbers.

mshunter · March 14th, 2009, 23:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by DPApilot

www.illinoisaviation.com

PVT

COST BREAKDOWN

(All qoutes based on FAA Requirements for course completion)

40 hours flight time at $105/hr

$4200

30 hours flight training @$49/hr

$1470

Ground School (30 hrs)

$185

FAA Medical

$100

Written Exam

$100

Final Exam Fees

$350

Related Books and Materials

$198

Total

$6603

INSTRUMENT RATING

COST BREAKDOWN

(All qoutes based on FAA Requirements for course completion)

50 hours cross country split @ $52.50/hr

$2625 10 hours flight training in aircraft @$151/hr $1510 10 hours instruction in simulator @ $126/hr $1260 Ground School (30 hrs) $185
Written Exam $100 Final Exam Fees $350 Related Books and Materials $100 Total $6130

COMMERCIAL PILOT

COST BREAKDOWN

(All qoutes based on FAA Requirements for course completion)

115 hours cross country split @ $52.50/hr $6038 10 hours flight training in complex aircraft @ $181/hr $1810 10 hours flight training in aircraft @ $151/hr $1510 Ground School (30 hrs) $185
Written Exam $100 Final Exam Fees $350 Related Books and Materials $150 Total $10,143

FLIGHT INSTRUCTOR (CFI)

COST BREAKDOWN

(All qoutes based on FAA Requirements for course completion)

5 hours flight training in complex aircraft @ $200/hr $1000 10 hours flight training in aircraft @ $170/hr $1700 Ground School Instruction (30 hrs) @ $65/hr $1950

Written Exams $200 Final Exam Fees (with FAA) $0 Related Books and Materials $150 Total $5000

MULTI-ENGINE RATING

COST BREAKDOWN

(All qoutes based on FAA Requirements for course completion)

10 hours flight Instruction in Multi-Engine @ $305/hr

$3050
Ground School Instruction (4 hrs) @ $65/hr
$260
Final Exam Fees
$400
Related Books and Materials
$120
Total
$3830

Grand Total...

31,706... Not 51,000

Tell me how much money you have spent when your done with your certs. And again, don't take what I have posted out of context. I have simply posted the National Average. Not some bargin rate at a school with shoddy, scary maint.

DPApilot · March 14th, 2009, 23:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by mshunter

Tell me how much money you have spent when your done with your certs. And again, don't take what I have posted out of context. I have simply posted the National Average. Not some bargin rate at a school with shoddy, scary maint.

the maint there is pretty damn good.
Mechanics fly too, so they know things from out perspective.

mshunter · March 14th, 2009, 23:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryanmickG

Maybe so, but there are flight schools all over the country. Most people DO relocate for flight training....... He is WAY OFF!!

Yeah, I work at two, count 'em up boys, TWO FBO's. Number of students who have moved to do training------0. 172 at school #1, $109. 172 at school #2, $135.

mshunter · March 14th, 2009, 23:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by DPApilot

the maint there is pretty damn good.
Mechanics fly too, so they know things from out perspective.

Just because they fly, dosen't mean they treat the planes any better. Look at 90% of auto mechs. cars. One more thing, your break down include's the FAA mins. I have yet to teach a single student who was ready at the mins, except for one, but he was a Delta pilots son, who's father had beem teaching him since he was old enough to reach the controls. I was there just to make it legal. So, like the post said, an HONEST break down.

ryanmickG · March 15th, 2009, 15:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by mshunter

Yeah, I work at two, count 'em up boys, TWO FBO's. Number of students who have moved to do training------0. 172 at school #1, $109. 172 at school #2, $135.

I've worked at one FBO and I know a bunch people that have transferred to to training. I could name a few on this website.

mshunter · March 15th, 2009, 18:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryanmickG

I've worked at one FBO and I know a bunch people that have transferred to to training. I could name a few on this website.

O.K., so now figure in the cost of the move, and a few hundred bucks a month for cost of living (not just a place to saty, but food, etc. REAL cost of living), and your right up there next to ATP's price again.

juxtapilot · March 15th, 2009, 18:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryanmickG

I've worked at one FBO and I know a bunch people that have transferred to to training. I could name a few on this website.

I could name a few who moved, and I could name a few who didn't.

juxtapilot · March 15th, 2009, 18:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by mshunter

O.K., so now figure in the cost of the move, and a few hundred bucks a month for cost of living (not just a place to saty, but food, etc. REAL cost of living), and your right up there next to ATP's price again.

Come on, seriously... You know as well as I do that everybody has a free place to stay and free food and completes all their flight time at the FAA minimums duh.

mshunter · March 15th, 2009, 18:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by juxtapilot

Come on, seriously... You know as well as I do that everybody has a free place to stay and free food and completes all their flight time at the FAA minimums duh.

Whoops, sorry. I forgot that we all are perfect pilots.

juxtapilot · March 15th, 2009, 18:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Douglas

RDU

When did you go through ATP?

Douglas · March 15th, 2009, 20:06

Fall 07....man my life is passing me by.

juxtapilot · March 15th, 2009, 20:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Douglas

Fall 07....man my life is passing me by.

Haha, I know what you mean.

The current RDU instructors have been there for less than a year. Really good instruction there, highly recommend it. Sometimes the instructors make all the difference.

splunker21 · March 24th, 2009, 01:13

I went to ATP recently, and in my opinion its not as nice as I thought it was going to be. Sure it was fun, your hanging around alot of other student pilots who are just like you, but the sad thing is, I learned most of my stuff from those friends not the instructors. Commercial Multi and Single was a joke. And at the time the CFI program in Vegas had a 90% fail rate. I optioned out of the CFI and took 2,000 cash back, Ya 2,000 is all they gave me back for CFI, CFII, and MEI. Total cost of living and Check rides for 3 months put me Under 62,000. Private not included(had private before I went) They take your money almost all up front before you make it past instruments, and if you double bust your kicked out of the program no refund. It happened to my roommate... Its the chance you take, hope your good in checkrides. And as for the comm. time building, as you go cross country, you must put on the foggles and your partner is your safety pilot. as your safety pilot he logs the same flight time as you do as PIC. Anybody read the FAR's (61.51 (e)) to log PIC time you must be the sole minipulator of the controls??? How does ATP get away with this rule??? Im not a CFI, so if anybody that is knows of a back door, I would like to know. As for Apples to Apples, I agree it all depends on the person... Thanks for all the other info all of you it was fun just to sit down and hear everyones opinion

mshunter · March 24th, 2009, 10:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by splunker21

I went to ATP recently, and in my opinion its not as nice as I thought it was going to be. Sure it was fun, your hanging around alot of other student pilots who are just like you, but the sad thing is, I learned most of my stuff from those friends not the instructors. Commercial Multi and Single was a joke. And at the time the CFI program in Vegas had a 90% fail rate. I optioned out of the CFI and took 2,000 cash back, Ya 2,000 is all they gave me back for CFI, CFII, and MEI. Total cost of living and Check rides for 3 months put me Under 62,000. Private not included(had private before I went) They take your money almost all up front before you make it past instruments, and if you double bust your kicked out of the program no refund. It happened to my roommate... Its the chance you take, hope your good in checkrides. And as for the comm. time building, as you go cross country, you must put on the foggles and your partner is your safety pilot. as your safety pilot he logs the same flight time as you do as PIC. Anybody read the FAR's (61.51 (e)) to log PIC time you must be the sole minipulator of the controls??? How does ATP get away with this rule??? Im not a CFI, so if anybody that is knows of a back door, I would like to know. As for Apples to Apples, I agree it all depends on the person... Thanks for all the other info all of you it was fun just to sit down and hear everyones opinion

Sorry to hear about your bad experince. But when you double bust, if they see your not some slacker, sometimes the will let you go at it again. And when they give you the boot, they give you back money at a pro-rated rate (i know it's bogus, but they don't keep all of your money likke you siad).

As for saftey pilot time, you probably had some bad instructors that didn't explain it very well to you. Look deeper into the regs. You are allowed to log PIC because of the fact that the FP(Flying pilot) is under the hood, so he can't see and avoid, which would make you have to be the "sole minipulator of the controls" should an emergency arise. You would be a required crew member in a single pilot airplane. Look deeper, you'll find it.

splunker21 · March 24th, 2009, 17:13

thanks for the response, You must work for ATP, or you just like that school way to much... when did you go there?

Counselor · March 24th, 2009, 21:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by splunker21

I went to ATP recently, and in my opinion its not as nice as I thought it was going to be. Sure it was fun, your hanging around alot of other student pilots who are just like you, but the sad thing is, I learned most of my stuff from those friends not the instructors. Commercial Multi and Single was a joke. And at the time the CFI program in Vegas had a 90% fail rate. I optioned out of the CFI and took 2,000 cash back, Ya 2,000 is all they gave me back for CFI, CFII, and MEI. Total cost of living and Check rides for 3 months put me Under 62,000. Private not included(had private before I went) They take your money almost all up front before you make it past instruments, and if you double bust your kicked out of the program no refund. It happened to my roommate... Its the chance you take, hope your good in checkrides. And as for the comm. time building, as you go cross country, you must put on the foggles and your partner is your safety pilot. as your safety pilot he logs the same flight time as you do as PIC. Anybody read the FAR's (61.51 (e)) to log PIC time you must be the sole minipulator of the controls??? How does ATP get away with this rule??? Im not a CFI, so if anybody that is knows of a back door, I would like to know. As for Apples to Apples, I agree it all depends on the person... Thanks for all the other info all of you it was fun just to sit down and hear everyones opinion

Splunker - what location did you attend?

splunker21 · March 24th, 2009, 22:51

Counselor - I went to PHX, why do you ask?

March 15th, 2009, 20:06	#69
Douglas Old Skool Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: The Good Life. Posts: 3,080	Re: Thinking about ATP Fall 07....man my life is passing me by. __________________ EYE/ Double EYE/ Multi EYE/ GOLDEN-EYE Legend-----> Full Time. Student pilot guide

March 24th, 2009, 01:13	#71
splunker21 Newbie Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: SLC Posts: 25	Re: Thinking about ATP I went to ATP recently, and in my opinion its not as nice as I thought it was going to be. Sure it was fun, your hanging around alot of other student pilots who are just like you, but the sad thing is, I learned most of my stuff from those friends not the instructors. Commercial Multi and Single was a joke. And at the time the CFI program in Vegas had a 90% fail rate. I optioned out of the CFI and took 2,000 cash back, Ya 2,000 is all they gave me back for CFI, CFII, and MEI. Total cost of living and Check rides for 3 months put me Under 62,000. Private not included(had private before I went) They take your money almost all up front before you make it past instruments, and if you double bust your kicked out of the program no refund. It happened to my roommate... Its the chance you take, hope your good in checkrides. And as for the comm. time building, as you go cross country, you must put on the foggles and your partner is your safety pilot. as your safety pilot he logs the same flight time as you do as PIC. Anybody read the FAR's (61.51 (e)) to log PIC time you must be the sole minipulator of the controls??? How does ATP get away with this rule??? Im not a CFI, so if anybody that is knows of a back door, I would like to know. As for Apples to Apples, I agree it all depends on the person... Thanks for all the other info all of you it was fun just to sit down and hear everyones opinion

March 24th, 2009, 17:13	#73
splunker21 Newbie Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: SLC Posts: 25	Re: Thinking about ATP thanks for the response, You must work for ATP, or you just like that school way to much... when did you go there?

March 24th, 2009, 22:51	#75
splunker21 Newbie Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: SLC Posts: 25	Re: Thinking about ATP Counselor - I went to PHX, why do you ask?

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