ATP thoughts from currently attending or most recent grads

[ry28]

My careers goal is to be a pilot of some sort (regional, 135, freight, major ect.) I have my ppl and am half way thru my single instruments (part 61). As of right now i have about 86 total hrs. There is a Fbo in my area that i can finish up my instruments, single comm., single cfi, and multi comm. for approx. 22-25 thousand. I was also looking into going to one of the ATP locations to finish up but the price is 60-65 thousand i believe. It seems that ATP offers more (cfi inteview, possible regional interview ect.) after completing the program. I'm just looking for some info about the school from people who are attending or just grad. to fill me in on this program. Money wise i would goto the fbo which i prob will end up doing. but if someone could shed some info about this place to me that would be helpful. I wouldnt mind accepting PM also. this post might be a little choppy but just got alot i want to know before i make a decision. thanks

[Clocks]

If that $22-25k price is even close to accurate...DO THAT.

Go to ATP for your MEI/II if you want afterwards (I did my MEI/II there, then got hired to be a CFI).

Nothing ATP offers in terms of interviews or a job is worth $40,000.

Yeah you'll be short on multi time when you finish at your FBO. But that's a problem you can solve either by being an MEI (recommended if practical for you) or by writing a check to any number of places that do multiengine timebuilding for $8-10k.

[meyers9163]

AS CLOCKS SAID GO TO THE FBO! Interviews, Jet course, etc... all that is advertisement BS..... but i'll get jump on here shortly for saying this. If you can do it for 22-30k you should go that route. Everyone knows you can do it cheaper and just as efficiently as ATP does at an FBO.... Do the FBO routes. Its probably the best for you!

[ry28]

yea that was my plan all along, i was just seeing what peoples thoughts were. wondering why so many people attend these schools that charge alot rather then going to a fbo for less? maybe thought i was missing something about the whole process. still wouldnt mind more thoughts on it. thanks

[meyers9163]

Originally Posted by ry28

yea that was my plan all along, i was just seeing what peoples thoughts were. wondering why so many people attend these schools that charge alot rather then going to a fbo for less? maybe thought i was missing something about the whole process. still wouldnt mind more thoughts on it. thanks

Some go because they are in a huge rush. Are not informed, jump at the advertisement, believe they have no other options, are older and do not wish to wait by going to the FBO.... There are a million reasons why. However those who do their research will and can find a way to do things cheaper. Realize there's nothing that ATP or another flight school does to get you hired. You realize its about networking, being educated, having a good apperance, being the guy I want to fly with for 3-4 days on a trip. Much more to it. However there was a post here about a guy who just finished up. He just posted his thoughts. Mostly positive if you wish to look. There's always two sides of the story however.

Bottom line is you cant overlook 20-30k in savings!

[killbilly]

Just because I'm a big believer in balance lately, I'll throw a couple points out in ATP's favor, even though I've never attended there nor do I have any intention of doing so....

1) The majority of the flight time is multi time.
2) Prices are guaranteed.
3) A little harder to find twins in the FBO fleet. They're there, you just gotta dig more.

[Clocks]

Also remember that according to my wild/ignorant/newbie FO opinion whether you finish in 90 days, 6 months, or 12 months in todays environment you're going to be at the back of the hiring boom no matter what. The difference in seniority will be tiny compared to the previous two years when every regional was hiring 75+ pilots a month.

[ry28]

after completing the ATP program i'm wondering what jobs these grads are getting. and how fasts after completing the program they are gettin a right seat in the rj's. if your guaranteed a job with the regionals right out of ATP then i guess it might be worth the price?

[SIUav8er]

Originally Posted by ry28

after completing the ATP program i'm wondering what jobs these grads are getting. and how fasts after completing the program they are gettin a right seat in the rj's. if your guaranteed a job with the regionals right out of ATP then i guess it might be worth the price?

Nobody is guaranteed anything after training at ATP. Its just like going to any other flight school and getting you commercial pilot license and CFI ratings. What you do with those qualifications is up to you.

Have you seen the ATP website?
http://www2.atpflightschool.com/AirlinePlacements/

Someone JUST posted their thoughts about ATP here:

http://forums.jetcareers.com/airline...pressions.html (Recent graduate's impressions)

[ry28]

thanks for all the post. still cant get over the concept of people paying so much for training that can be done for alot cheaper at a fbo and getting a jet job the same time as someone finishing their training at an fbo. maybe i'm just missing something but thanks for the replys

[planesiscool]

Originally Posted by ry28

thanks for all the post. still cant get over the concept of people paying so much for training that can be done for alot cheaper at a fbo and getting a jet job the same time as someone finishing their training at an fbo. maybe i'm just missing something but thanks for the replys

Dude I totally feel you here but let me expand on some positives about ATP. Also, I'm almost done with my PPL; I'm almost positive I am going to go to an FBO. They claim they can get me out in 5-6 months(going full time no job) for about 30-35K. This is much cheaper than ATP, hence the main reason I want to go there, but back to ATP's positives:

1. ATP's bread and butter is getting people all the way through their ratings in the shortest period of time. Because of this one almost need not worry about instructor availability because if you don't get through the program then that's affecting the bread and butter. As opposed to an FBO where, at least at the FBO I go to, it can be a crap shoot with instructor issues and maintenance issues.

2. You get alot of multi Time. This is what airlines like to see

3. Total immersion training. All aviation all the time. I don't know how old you are man but I am married and am 25 and I have a lot of distractions. I don't even have kids yet and I am constantly having stuff to do. You get all of those distractions out of the way(not completely if you are married) and just focus on aviation because your housing is included in the cost.

4. Across the country cross countries. I really like this concept because of the variability in airspaces you are flying. This sounds good to me because you get alot of exposure to different kinds of flying in different cities plus all of your hotels are paid for.

The Negatives, As I See Them:

1. Goes back to their bread and butter. You may be pushed to get a checkride done when you may not be comfortable. This seems to be a potential with any program like this, plus you may not feel ready to flight instruct once you are done.

2. Cost. The cost is $60K. This is a staggering number to me one that, in good conscience, I can not pay. This amount of debt would be crippling to my family and me and because of this alone I can't attend ATP.

3. RJ Course. I've heard from several pilots outside of this forum that this is completely unnecessary because they never had to do it. I may go to ATP to be an instructor but nothing else.


Take my points for what their worth...an outsider who has only visited ATP but never been through the program. These are only common sense reasons and observations.

[BillH]

I had way more free time than I ever expected when I went to ATP.
As far as a job, I am very happy staying a flight instructor down in Miami. I am a 141 check pilot and the primary multi guy. My cost of living is low for the fact I do not have to pay utilities, live within a few miles of the airport, so gas is cheap, and the amount of money I make in a year, I would have to be a captain on a regional for a few years before I could equal the same pay.
Best part of all is that I am paying off my loans with ease.
The regionals can kiss my ass.

[Kleigh]

Hey, this is my first post. I have read the forums for a long time, finally decided to join. First off, I do instruct for ATP (happy to answer questions if needed) Second, congrats Bill. I am real happy for you. There are more things to do than Regionals. Glad you found one.

[Clocks]

Originally Posted by BillH

The regionals can kiss my ass.

At least we get air conditioning!!!

[DE727UPS]

"The regionals can kiss my ass"

I think that's a better slogan than:

"Seniority is everything. Get there first with ATP"....

[BillH]

Originally Posted by Clocks

At least we get air conditioning!!!

Well can't argue with that!

[brewpilot]

Well, everyone has a point. If you can get it done for that price, then do it. But on the other hand if you want it done quick and get some multi time, which is important for the regionals, then go with ATP, I had got my PPL in 2003 and was trying to find time and money to get my CMEL and Instrument, and everything else. I decided to go to ATP cause its going to be a life long career and I figured to deal with it and get my stuff done in a quick and well rounded manner. I really don't have anything bad to say about ATP. But again I paid 49K for my training, with the Citation flight. I guess its gone up quite a bit. Also the jet course is kinda a joke from what my friends have told me, some airlines really like it though, I heard of guys that went through ATP did the jet course with the program and got hired at Pinnacle, ASA, and a couple more with as low as 250TT. So i guess its pretty good, But do what you want that would be best for you and your future as a pilot. Take Care, and Good Luck!

[eclipse]

DE727,

Playing Devil's Advocate here:

Do you really intend for us to believe that seniority is NOT important in the 121 and 135 world? If it is important, why the slam on the slogan? Just wondering if you know something that no one else does...

[SpiraMirabilis]

Seniority is important but it is not everything. You can be on the top of a seniority list that makes less than half of what your peers do (Skybus, VA, etc.)

[DE727UPS]

Seniority is nothing when you "got there fast" by skipping the CFI in favor of an RJ course, got hired at low time at a regional, and end up on the street six months later. I guess my point is that the regionals aren't the rosy picture for the low time SJSer they used to be. Today, selling the ACPP program on "get there fast" seems to ring hollow. Get where fast?

Whatever school you go to, it would be wise to get the CFI and build an experience base you can sell somewhere down the road, if need be.

[N826AW]

Having been there done that, got the tacky refrigerator magnet; I would not do it again. Mainly because of cost. I'm not really opposed to the RJ course so long as it is not used as a means to avoid real experience building. If you feel you would benefit from the additional training, then have at it.

That being said, ATP offers a great training environment. My cush office gig wouldn't allow for flight training on the side. So I needed to take a few months off and knock out the training. If you're in a similar position, ATP is hard to match. It also offers a great network environment as all of the people there have professional aspirations.

[SpiraMirabilis]

Originally Posted by DE727UPS

Seniority is nothing when you "got there fast" by skipping the CFI in favor of an RJ course, got hired at low time at a regional, and end up on the street six months later. I guess my point is that the regionals aren't the rosy picture for the low time SJSer they used to be. Today, selling the ACPP program on "get there fast" seems to ring hollow. Get where fast?

Whatever school you go to, it would be wise to get the CFI and build an experience base you can sell somewhere down the road, if need be.

Or don't make it through sim because you don't have enough experience. There were two guys who didn't make it through sim in my class when I went through. One had 350 hours and one had 450 hours.

Some people may think that since we're having a hiring slowdown that their best bet is to get hired as quickly as they can but having a 121 failure on your PRIA ain't going to look good when the hiring slows down.

[eclipse]

ATP does not encourage ANYWHERE (at least where I have read and where I instruct) to skip being a CFI, take the RJ course and go to 121. ATP does not have the ability to force people into being a CFI, but it is strongly encouraged. Clearly the market isnt going to support low time Regional FO's anymore, so that "problem" is going to solve itself, and everybody will be better off. It just seems to be different criticism of ATP at every turn by self appointed "yoda's" that seem to resent the nature of the industry but take it out on the suppliers of the needs of that industry. Just looking for the logic, thats all.

[DE727UPS]

"Just looking for the logic, thats all."

How logical is it to market low time hiring agreements and "get there now with ATP", to newbies who don't know any better, in a regional industry that is in a VERY challenging situation?

You have nine posts. I've been around here long enough to have pointed out big academy marketing BS to the misinformed long before Comair academy became DCA or ATA went down the tubes.

I know marketing BS when I see it. I even got two ratings (sort of) from ATP back in the 80's.

Like I've always said. The day big academy puts a link to JC on their website to educate the newbs as to the state of the industry is the day I shut up.

[SnareMV17]

Originally Posted by DE727UPS

"Just looking for the logic, thats all."

How logical is it to market low time hiring agreements and "get there now with ATP", to newbies who don't know any better, in a regional industry that is in a VERY challenging situation?

You have nine posts. I've been around here long enough to have pointed out big academy marketing BS to the misinformed long before Comair academy became DCA or ATA went down the tubes.

I know marketing BS when I see it. I even got two ratings (sort of) from ATP back in the 80's.

Like I've always said. The day big academy puts a link to JC on their website to educate the newbs as to the state of the industry is the day I shut up.

One of the brightest, most honest, and absolutely true things I've seen posted on here so far. And for someone with not so many posts myself, I appreciate this.

So all the marketing BS aside, is ATP any good?