glass cockpits...

[BronxATP]

Hey guys,
This question is for current and past ATP students. Are any of the Seminoles that ATP has equipped with glass cockpits?

-fly safe

[blee256]

I doubt it. They didn't have any while i was there. But they do have color moving map GPS (garmin 430) the newer seminoles have a dual stack GPS. as well as HSI's.

They even have an awesome intercom system. You can isolate comm 1 and 2. so that the left seater can talk on comm 1 and the right seater can talk on comm 2. Works great if the other guys want to check atis or call flightwatch. You can also isolate the back seaters from the front seaters. But there is no point of that now since no one is allowed in the back anymore.

ATPs seminoles are NICE!

[BronxATP]

Originally Posted by blee256

I doubt it. They didn't have any while i was there. But they do have color moving map GPS (garmin 430) the newer seminoles have a dual stack GPS. as well as HSI's.

They even have an awesome intercom system. You can isolate comm 1 and 2. so that the left seater can talk on comm 1 and the right seater can talk on comm 2. Works great if the other guys want to check atis or call flightwatch. You can also isolate the back seaters from the front seaters. But there is no point of that now since no one is allowed in the back anymore.

ATPs seminoles are NICE!

Thats freakin sweet! Thanks blee.

[BobDDuck]

Blee, you're getting excited over the ISO switch on the 430? Wow. You REALLY need to get back in the RJ and play with the 1/2 cross tune switch on the RTUs. That will make you feel better... I promise.

None of the Seminoles have glass other then the Garmin 430s installed. No need for it. They have a pretty good HSI and that's more then enough. The *plan* was for the diamond singles to be the "glass" trainers, but as far as I can tell, you don't really need any glass experience to pick it up if you need it. On the other hand, people who learned on glass (or spend most of their time on glass) have a heck of a time trying to get an old fashion scan going again.

And now I have the Sir Mix A Lot song stuck in my head. Wonderful.

[ADIZFlyboy]

are the hsi's in both the older and newer seminoles slaved?

[kfour]

Slaving is hit or miss...some of the older seminoles have it.

The 2000 and up seminoles are usually slaved.

[blee256]

Originally Posted by BobDDuck

Blee, you're getting excited over the ISO switch on the 430? Wow. You REALLY need to get back in the RJ and play with the 1/2 cross tune switch on the RTUs. That will make you feel better... I promise.

HAHA. come on, you know it was pretty cool. The avionics in an ATP seminole is nicer than about 95% of GA lanes out there.

[meyers9163]

Originally Posted by blee256

HAHA. come on, you know it was pretty cool. The avionics in an ATP seminole is nicer than about 95% of GA lanes out there.

You must not have viewed many general a/c outside of ATP then..... I came from an FBO with all G-1000 with the xm radio and would take the G-1000 ANYDAY over any plane at ATP..... Just my 2cents though!

[kfour]

I'd take the 2nd engine over a nice set of avionics...

[blee256]

Originally Posted by meyers9163

You must not have viewed many general a/c outside of ATP then..... I came from an FBO with all G-1000 with the xm radio and would take the G-1000 ANYDAY over any plane at ATP..... Just my 2cents though!

I am sure some FBOs have nice great equipment, but i would say your school is the exception than rule, no?

Originally Posted by kfour

I'd take the 2nd engine over a nice set of avionics...

me too

[meyers9163]

Originally Posted by blee256

I am sure some FBOs have nice great equipment, but i would say your school is the exception than rule, no?

Not at all.... ATP has a few good planes but very few great ones...Many FBO's have a lot many better planes...

[Captain_Bob]

meyers... you are the lucky one. I'd have to agree with Blee that a great majority of FBO's, including those that I've had experience with, have much older aircraft with just as old avionics.

I've been to several FBO's within a 30 mile radius of GKY in the DFW area to get checked out in singles as well as my fair share of FBO's in Maine, and 90+ percent of those FBO's have older planes primarily and maybe one or two AC with the G1000 or GNS430/530's in them.

Good on you though for working in an area where the the older equipment is not the rule.

Bob

[meyers9163]

Originally Posted by Captain_Bob

meyers... you are the lucky one. I'd have to agree with Blee that a great majority of FBO's, including those that I've had experience with, have much older aircraft with just as old avionics.

I've been to several FBO's within a 30 mile radius of GKY in the DFW area to get checked out in singles as well as my fair share of FBO's in Maine, and 90+ percent of those FBO's have older planes primarily and maybe one or two AC with the G1000 or GNS430/530's in them.

Good on you though for working in an area where the the older equipment is not the rule.

Bob

Maybe its a midwest thing. Honestly the airports and FBO's I've used all had better avionics then ATP. The fleet I flew for most of my training was the best I've been in. However I was more so wanting to comment that ATP's planes are nothing you dont see anywhere else. Many places have just the same avionics in them as they do. Most seminoles you fly will at least have one G-430. And we only have the newer ones with dual and depending where you go you'll get that. Then ontop of that half the time the avionics are broken and you are lucky to get aplane with both G-430s working and or updated.

[blee256]

Originally Posted by meyers9163

Not at all.... ATP has a few good planes but very few great ones...Many FBO's have a lot many better planes...

really? a lot has changed then since i was in training.

[Gonzo]

All the planes at ATP have glass. There is glass over the HSI, VSI, Airspeed, AI, Etc..

[NJT916]

Glass Shmass...All you need is the Garmin 430. Direct, Enter, Enter!!!!

[SoCalAprch]

Originally Posted by meyers9163

Maybe its a midwest thing. Honestly the airports and FBO's I've used all had better avionics then ATP. The fleet I flew for most of my training was the best I've been in. However I was more so wanting to comment that ATP's planes are nothing you dont see anywhere else. Many places have just the same avionics in them as they do. Most seminoles you fly will at least have one G-430. And we only have the newer ones with dual and depending where you go you'll get that. Then ontop of that half the time the avionics are broken and you are lucky to get aplane with both G-430s working and or updated.

I instructed in San Diego and we had all the 182s and 172s with G1000's blah blah blah, however our only multi was a duchess that looked like it had been through WWII and was going to fall out of the sky. What kind of multi's do these FBOs have? ATP has the nicest fleet of multi engine trainers around. And who cares if you have a glass cockpit flying around at 80 knots. Ill take an old beat up Seminole over a G1000 172 any day. I think most people will agree... Find me a glass cockpit fleet of multi trainers and I will be impressed. G1000 Cessna's are becoming a dime a dozen.

[Gonzo]

Originally Posted by SoCalAprch

I instructed in San Diego and we had all the 182s and 172s with G1000's blah blah blah, however our only multi was a duchess that looked like it had been through WWII and was going to fall out of the sky. What kind of multi's do these FBOs have? ATP has the nicest fleet of multi engine trainers around. And who cares if you have a glass cockpit flying around at 80 knots. Ill take an old beat up Seminole over a G1000 172 any day. I think most people will agree... Find me a glass cockpit fleet of multi trainers and I will be impressed. G1000 Cessna's are becoming a dime a dozen.

Falcon has DA-42's for the multi-trainers.

[SoonerAv8r]

I think the issue missing here is that ATP isn't worried about instructing the weekend warrior or business owner who wants to fly his G1000 equiped aircraft. They are in the business of teaching pilotage. That's why there are no operational autopilots in the ATP trainers. ATP students are trained to fly by the instruments and use sound ADM. If you learn these skills in a high workload environment you are most likely going to be better prepared at the professional pilot level.
My beliefs: Are advanced avionics safer and reduce pilot workload?.......YES Do they help teach pilotage and ADM?.......NO!

What are you gonna do with your G1000 when you encounter full panel failure..........Well I hope you have good pilotage skills.

[SoCalAprch]

Originally Posted by Gonzo

Falcon has DA-42's for the multi-trainers.

That is impressive But its tough to teach natural situational awareness in a G1000. The students I have instructed in the G1000 would be lost if they had to navigate using raw data (VOR/NDB) in a round dial plane.

[meyers9163]

Originally Posted by SoCalAprch

That is impressive But its tough to teach natural situational awareness in a G1000. The students I have instructed in the G1000 would be lost if they had to navigate using raw data (VOR/NDB) in a round dial plane.

This isnt a fault of yours but those students who instructors fail to teach them the basic 6 pack knowledge are not doing their jobs. I have 100 plus hours in G-1000 however I learned primarily on a 6 pac for my instruments. I also incorperated the G-1000 however made a effort to take time in the frasca to get the 6 pack scan down. Period G-1000 is great for those needing glass time to get adjusted to that picture for a future airline job.

Side note to above... I much rather take a g-1000 cessna 182/206 anyday over a seminole even with G-1000 abilities. Cheaper to fly and just as good of a bird if not better... But that's personaly choice !

[SoCalAprch]

Originally Posted by meyers9163

This isnt a fault of yours but those students who instructors fail to teach them the basic 6 pack knowledge are not doing their jobs. I have 100 plus hours in G-1000 however I learned primarily on a 6 pac for my instruments. I also incorperated the G-1000 however made a effort to take time in the frasca to get the 6 pack scan down. Period G-1000 is great for those needing glass time to get adjusted to that picture for a future airline job.

Side note to above... I much rather take a g-1000 cessna 182/206 anyday over a seminole even with G-1000 abilities. Cheaper to fly and just as good of a bird if not better... But that's personaly choice !

I disagree but I guess different strokes for different folks. I don't see a problem teaching a commercial student in a G1000 but for anything before that I think they should put in their time with the 6 pack. I learned on Seminoles and instructed a ton on G1000 equipment. Now I fly an ERJ which is all glass. If you wanna goto an airline get the multi time, it will help you in all aspects of training. Last time I checked you will have 2 engines on your airliner and in training you spend 90% of the time flying around with an engine failure. If I had to give any advice to a new student who wanted to goto an airline it would be get as much multi time as possible. I don't think any airline pilots will tell future ones to go get as much 172 glass time as possible. Just my 2 cents...

[blee256]

Originally Posted by meyers9163

This isnt a fault of yours but those students who instructors fail to teach them the basic 6 pack knowledge are not doing their jobs. I have 100 plus hours in G-1000 however I learned primarily on a 6 pac for my instruments.

Are you logging your glass time?

Originally Posted by meyers9163

G-1000 is great for those needing glass time to get adjusted to that picture for a future airline job.

I think glass time in GA is overrated. Going from six pack to glass is extremely easy. I dont know of anyone who had a hard time transitioning. The other way around I could see being a problem. So kudos to you for teaching primarys on six packs. Do they charge more to fly the G1000 172? If so, its a waste of money, just stick to the planes with BRTs.

Originally Posted by meyers9163

Side note to above... I much rather take a g-1000 cessna 182/206 anyday over a seminole even with G-1000 abilities. Cheaper to fly and just as good of a bird if not better... But that's personaly choice !

I would take a twin over a single for training anyday. If its about cost, i see your point, but then again wouldnt a G1000 172 be more expensive to rent than one with a sixpack?

[kfour]

Originally Posted by blee256

I would take a twin over a single for training anyday. If its about cost, i see your point, but then again wouldnt a G1000 172 be more expensive to rent than one with a sixpack?

Nail, meet head.

[Captain_Bob]

There's a famous saying out there that goes something like this...

If you are flying a single engine airplane... then that means you are already flying the airplane on only one engine... and thus... you are already in an emergency situation.



Bob