What are the numbers?

[atpwannabe]

The main page for ATP states that 363 graduates hired by airlines within the last 12 months. My questions are:

What percentage is that of total enrollment?
Do these number represent certain locations?
What's the breakdown of those hired...which facility did they train at?
What's the washout rate at ATP?
What's the percentage of those hired that CFI'ed, but not hired by airlines?
How many or what's the percentage that go to Part 135 jobs?

Does anyone out there have this information? Thanks in advance.



atp

[v1valarob]

Originally Posted by atpwannabe

The main page for ATP states that 363 graduates hired by airlines within the last 12 months. My questions are:

What percentage is that of total enrollment?
Do these number represent certain locations?
What's the breakdown of those hired...which facility did they train at?
What's the washout rate at ATP?
What's the percentage of those hired that CFI'ed, but not hired by airlines?
How many or what's the percentage that go to Part 135 jobs?

Does anyone out there have this information? Thanks in advance.



atp

Im guessing that number is people who attended some sort of ATP training. Whether it was ACPP, the CFI program or RJ course. We had many people at the RAL location who did not go to CFI school (or actually dropped out) but are still on the ATP website as going to a certain airline which will probably be out of business soon.

As for the numbers your asking about, its probably kept secret by ATP. I dont know anyone who didnt make it through the commercial phase. Its fairly easy to get through all of that, and if you cant, then this isnt the career path for you. I do know a ton of people that dropped out or just didnt go to CFI school.

Those people learn quick that finding a job after ATP in the industry is very difficult without CFI certificates.

-Rob

[atpwannabe]

Originally Posted by v1valarob

Im guessing that number is people who attended some sort of ATP training. Whether it was ACPP, the CFI program or RJ course. We had many people at the RAL location who did not go to CFI school (or actually dropped out) but are still on the ATP website as going to a certain airline which will probably be out of business soon.

As for the numbers your asking about, its probably kept secret by ATP. I dont know anyone who didnt make it through the commercial phase. Its fairly easy to get through all of that, and if you cant, then this isnt the career path for you. I do know a ton of people that dropped out or just didnt go to CFI school.

Those people learn quick that finding a job after ATP in the industry is very difficult without CFI certificates.

-Rob

Yeah...all of this is kinda scary. I'm not worried about not being able to absorb all of the information and flight material. My thing is about going the CFI route and still no airline picks you up. Then what? Part 135? Continue to instruct? I dunno know.

I've ventured to look at GIA's program. I know, I know, I know......about PFT......blah blah; blah blah; blah blah blah. Someone is going to say, "hey buddy you're paying for a job." Well, my thing is, if it is going to get me where I wanna be, then so be it. What I'm doing is looking a the tradeoffs for each academy; that's ATP & GIA.

ATP
Training: 5 months; MEII, CFII
Flight Instruct: 2 - 6 months (depending on location)
Total time: 7 - 11 months
Cost: 64K


GIA
Looking at the Professional Pilot Program VI


Like I said, I dunno know. For my situation, I'm spending nearly the same amount of money however, with GIA, I getting actual experience as an FO. Can't beat that with a stick. I don't care how you slice it. And even if they let me go after the six months....that turboprop time can't be taken away from me. Upgrades are around 9 months.

I don't know what to do.



atp

[flyingator]

i think that in today's climate there area many ways to get experience that don't include shelling out mad stacks of cash for the promise of a job, let alone displacing a paying job in the process. as i have gone through my flight training the last couple of years i have seen many instructors who never touched an academy get offers from multiple regionals.

as a street hire i would guess GIA it's the same as any other regional gig????(purely conjecture). if you live in wpb i can see how flying for gulfstream would be attractive. i live in jax and would may one day apply as a street hire capt, but going to the academy makes no sense at all. I mean, at commercial multi instrument you can get hired by many a regional today.


also, the comment about "getting me where i want to be then so be it" is very far off the mark. as you go through life you will find this attitude to be terribly destructive and isolating. check your self before you wreck yourself bro.

i'm not trying to slam you here, i graduated high school in palm beach county about 15 yrs ago, i'm a gator, and i live in jax beach now, so i have seen many a dude exhibit that exact attitude and help turn the southern half of our beautiful state into a cess pool. I'm not hatin' on you, so don't take it that way. i'm just trying to give you a little nugget of advice that may prove helpful on your journey....

[N826AW]

I'd watch out for the professional reputation of GIA. It might be worth the delay in getting to where you want to be so you don't squirm in your seat every time another pilot asks where you did your training.

[v1valarob]

Originally Posted by atpwannabe

GIA
Looking at the Professional Pilot Program VI

If you do go this route, put a few hundred bucks away for a hotel when you get denied the jumpseat on your commute home.

Its not about the destination, its about the journey. Sounds corny but its true. If you CFI after ATP and build up to 500 hours, you will be able to go to many regionals. CFIing boosts your confidence as a pilot that you know what to do and that you are doing things right. Its just a step in the process, but an important one (I feel). Its also feel its a much more respected route.

-Rob

[atpwannabe]

Originally Posted by flyingator

i think that in today's climate there area many ways to get experience that don't include shelling out mad stacks of cash for the promise of a job, let alone displacing a paying job in the process. as i have gone through my flight training the last couple of years i have seen many instructors who never touched an academy get offers from multiple regionals.

as a street hire i would guess GIA it's the same as any other regional gig????(purely conjecture). if you live in wpb i can see how flying for gulfstream would be attractive. i live in jax and would may one day apply as a street hire capt, but going to the academy makes no sense at all. I mean, at commercial multi instrument you can get hired by many a regional today.


also, the comment about "getting me where i want to be then so be it" is very far off the mark. as you go through life you will find this attitude to be terribly destructive and isolating. check your self before you wreck yourself bro.

i'm not trying to slam you here, i graduated high school in palm beach county about 15 yrs ago, i'm a gator, and i live in jax beach now, so i have seen many a dude exhibit that exact attitude and help turn the southern half of our beautiful state into a cess pool. I'm not hatin' on you, so don't take it that way. i'm just trying to give you a little nugget of advice that may prove helpful on your journey....

True.

I can understand where you coming from. However, I'm no spring chicken and have been researching the best route for me at least for the last two years. A little about me:

46
John I. Leonard High grad - Class of '79
ERAU grad: Class of '87
Airport & airline ops experience (PBI; Dunnellon Airport; Delta; Comair)
Sales & Marketing -(non-aviation) - Naples, FL

Given my age, the age 65 legislation, and other economic factors I believe that FO's may sit in the right seat a little longer than expected. That's ok. I'm thinking long term. Flying a 1900D as a CA say for 2-4 years would give my that coveted PIC time and possibly open the door to a Major pax or cargo. On the other hand, go to ATP and take a shot at PNCL or ASA with the two year upgrade. I think that's what is running about now. Now sure what it will be later this year.

Decisions....decisions!!!

I'll figure it out.....and when I do, it'll be the best choice.

The flying community (pilots) really frown on GIA, huh?



atp

[SIUav8er]

Originally Posted by atpwannabe

True.

I can understand where you coming from. However, I'm no spring chicken and have been researching the best route for me at least for the last two years. A little about me:

quit researching and start flying!

no matter how you do it, the quicker you can start gaining experience, the quicker you start flying for an airline or whatever. ATP is a great place for getting your initial ratings in a structured environment at a pretty fast pace. There are other options too, as ATP is one of several possibilities out there. I'm kind of against any program that promise an FO position as part of the curriculum. My only advice would be to start flying, stop looking for shortcuts, and enjoy it the ride! Instructing, while not for everyone, is a great experience builder and a hell of a lot of fun. I also think it is a much better job to prepare you for flying as part of a crew than other methods of building flight time. Theres also a lot of disrespect in the pilot world towards people that didnt work their way up the ranks. A lot of pilots dont like guys that go out and "buy" their job. Just some stuff to think about.

[blee256]

IF you can get through GIA's program, you can get through ATPs. So dont go to GIA thinking its gonna be easier. From my experience everyone that went to ATP, and was hired as a CFI, got hired on with an airline. Except for 1. He went corp, and now he is flying G-IIIs. Not a bad alternative to flying airlines if you ask me.

The way I look at it is, if a majority of the people are getting hired on as CFIs and then by the airlines why not me. I have confidence in myself and what i can do. I feel like I am just as good as most of the world, if not better. So thats why I had no hesitation in signing for ATP and believing in their statistics.

you'll be fine at ATP. Do you have your private pilots license yet? If you arent sure about your learning curve, I would get it at an FBO and then reassess what you want to do.

[atpwannabe]

Originally Posted by blee256

IF you can get through GIA's program, you can get through ATPs. So dont go to GIA thinking its gonna be easier. From my experience everyone that went to ATP, and was hired as a CFI, got hired on with an airline. Except for 1. He went corp, and now he is flying G-IIIs. Not a bad alternative to flying airlines if you ask me.

The way I look at it is, if a majority of the people are getting hired on as CFIs and then by the airlines why not me. I have confidence in myself and what i can do. I feel like I am just as good as most of the world, if not better. So thats why I had no hesitation in signing for ATP and believing in their statistics.

you'll be fine at ATP. Do you have your private pilots license yet? If you arent sure about your learning curve, I would get it at an FBO and then reassess what you want to do.

Not thinking it's easier; and I really like those numbers as far as all being hired by the airlines and 1 going corporate.

I have confidence in my abilities as well. I'll like a challenge; especially one that is academic and requires application. I was concerned as to what areas of training...historically speaking that most students may have had issues with. That's all.

No don't have PPL yet. Took an online PPL test about 1 1/2 months ago. Got a 58. That's with no studying and just going by what I remembered from 24 years ago when I started at ERAU.

Looking forward to starting training. Most likely early-mid March....and yeah more than likely, it'll be ATP.

Thanks for the insight guys.


atp