CFI'ING (is that a word:-)...)at ATP

mooneyguy · November 14th, 2007, 08:59

OK, I am curious. I am starting to think about going the CFI route for my first flying gig. Then I see the ad here on JC about the "extras" you get from ATP. First you go through their multi Flight Proficiency probrgam in JAX which is 6 hrs in the nole and 25 in an ftd (at no charg to you). Then after 300 dual given you get the Regional Jet Standards Certification for free. then the Extra Income Opportunities, for alumni, which gives you working possiblities on your off days from you "new airline" job. which seems like a great idea, if im sitting in a crash pad while on reserve waiting for work, some extra cash would be good!
SO...What is the catch here?

Is there a signing contract?

How much (or little) are you paid as a CFI?

Do you have to work 7 days a week?

What is the "Standard Instructor Track" up to 6 Weeks in Jacksonville
Scheduling Center, all about?

ANY info you can provide would be great! THANK YOU

meyers9163 · November 14th, 2007, 09:41

Not bad.... They said 10k worth of training and that's BULL..... The standarization is much of a joke..... You get about 5 hours in the nole. However they probably calculate that at their rate of 375 and hour for the plane when in all reality we know it doesnt cost them near that. In addition they say 25 hours in the FTD again that's something I dont believe. Yes you have access to it while you are there but again they own them and you probably only do about 1 hour a day for 7 days in that thing with the "instructor" there. Again so only about 7 hours. In addition the jet course you do get. However it is only after 300 dual given at atp when you are making 1200 a month if you are an outside instructor. If you are an ACP you get 1600 and will be 2000 in Janurary. But again if you are an outsider they could care less. I know my recent paycheck didnt go up any even though i did 4 ratings here and had been hired on with the old payscale much like the others did..... Needless to say I'm glad to get out because I couldnt make myself stick around any longer at a pay that is subpar to those who I instructed and are now instructing and making more money.

Simply put ATP is a means to an end...... Go there get your hours get out. If you want to get some where and you want it fast go and do it. Other wise its just another place to instruct. Dont buy into the "10,000 worth of training" they are trying to sell.... That's completely a joke....... Also if you do sign up for the jet course dont use the software unless you are doing the jet course. Recently the guy in charge of that tried calling me and telling me I used the software and would have to pay when I politley reminded him to look it up and I never touched it. Anyways again I had a great time meeting some great INSTRUCTORS and the management at my location. However its simply a MEANS to an end.

Oh and days off?? HAHAHA no sir you are to be available 24/7 if the need comes for you to fly. If the wx is crapy and you are doing an ATP add on.... and all day long it stinks and at 2am the wx clears.... yes you are expected to fly then and have that student ready for their checkride the next morning..... no days off... I believe the mentality is, "you are only here 90 days instructing you can get days off when you leave"

Clocks · November 14th, 2007, 20:24

Is there a signing contract?
Not that I know of

How much (or little) are you paid as a CFI?
$1200/m minus $300 if you live in their housing. I made about $200-400/m in bonuses also.

Do you have to work 7 days a week?
7 days a week, 12+ hours a day

SIUav8er · November 15th, 2007, 05:03

$1600 + bonuses now, and $2000 a month + bonuses starting january. still borderline slave labor though....it sucks how they have "b" scale pay rate for the non ACP instructors.

SpiraMirabilis · November 15th, 2007, 18:58

Is that "B" scale for non $55k ACP instructors?

kfour · November 15th, 2007, 19:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpiraMirabilis

Is that "B" scale for non $55k ACP instructors?

No. If you completed the ACPP at ATP you get the current 1600/mo

SIUav8er · November 15th, 2007, 23:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpiraMirabilis

Is that "B" scale for non $55k ACP instructors?

the B-scale pay rate of 1200/month is for CFIs that DID NOT complete their CFI training in the Airline Career Pilot Program at ATP. If you went through the Career Pilot Program, you get the higher pay

BuickCFI · November 16th, 2007, 00:08

damn, that sucks. i know i am not making much compared to some but 1600/month? i make double that

bap327 · November 16th, 2007, 17:20

Do they want all three ratings or can you come on with the Initial and get the II and MEI while you work?

Gizmo · November 16th, 2007, 17:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by bap327

Do they want all three ratings or can you come on with the Initial and get the II and MEI while you work?

You need all the ratings.

Clocks · November 16th, 2007, 18:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by BuickCFI

damn, that sucks. i know i am not making much compared to some but 1600/month? i make double that

You make $3200/m and fly 80-120 hours a month of multi? I really doubt that.

$3200/m may sound great teaching somewhere else, but it doesn't sound great if you're only getting time in a 172 and still need to shell out $6000-10,000 to buy your multi time.

An example: 2 CFIs fly 100 hours a month. One flies it all in a twin, one flies it all in a 172.

The time for the ATP CFI to hit 600/100 will be 3.5 months, and the instructor will be paid $5600
The time for the 172 CFI to hit 600 total time will also be 3.5 months, during which they'll be paid $11,200. But this CFI still needs to buy 90ish hours of multi time to hit 600/100. The best price I've ever seen for that was a special deal at the university I went to which was $160/h ($80 each when split). Thats $7200 out of pocket. Now the 172 CFI has really only "made" $4000 in 3.5 months. We can add the question of "which CFI knows more about multi engine flying" also.

Obviously ignore all of this if hitting the regional mins isn't one of your primary goals, you already have 100 hours multi, or if your rich uncle owns a twin. Because lets be honest here, people CFI at ATP to build multi time (or total time). If flying in a 172 is the top of your career goals, that is cool and I have no problem with that, but if that's you then there's no reason for you to come teach at ATP.

BuickCFI · November 17th, 2007, 00:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clocks

You make $3200/m and fly 80-120 hours a month of multi? I really doubt that.

Quote:

The time for the 172 CFI to hit 600 total time will also be 3.5 months, during which they'll be paid $11,200.

i fall into this category w/o buying my multi time. i get roughly 25-30 hours of multi per month, average i i would guess, more like 35. i don't need or want to fly that much multi. and not in a hurry to meet regional mins because i did that a long time ago, looking for better

but i also understand most are just looking for a way to build time to get on with their career and that is cool with me. that just is not for me because i don't think i could take the pay cut. moving to larger/faster/bigger airplanes should come with a pay raise, not a 50% or more pay cut. now going from instructing at ATP to a regional that is probably a lateral move or maybe an increase.

skydriverdc6 · November 17th, 2007, 00:31

I've been at ATP for about 7 weeks now and accumulated around 25 hrs of multi time. Standardization was a little difficult for me because i didnt do any training at ATP at all. So learning all these pairing codes and such was a pain in the A$$. I'd never flown a seminole before either. And of course they tell you that youll get 6 hrs of seminole time and 25 FTD, which really means youll get as much as they think youll need. In my case I got 2 hours with an instructor in the seminole, 5 hours in the sim, and then the dreaded "Rich" ride came. Im at a one man location and after hearing all the BS during standardization about working 7 days a week I went in one day and said " I dont know if this is for me" because I dont like the idea of working 7 days a week for 10-12 hours a day, and they said "oh no, you wont be working that much, not at your location" then once I arrived on location I found out we were starting with 90 day guys and ive been working like a maniac since day one. It wouldnt be so bad if I was flying all that time, but with ATP writtens every other day, and 40 hrs of teaching students to fly the SIM (which isnt increasing my multi time) all for $1200/month, its not really worth it.

I also dont think its really fair that the career pilot graduates are gonna get $2000/month starting in Jan, and im still stuck at $1200. I mean I agree they spent a lot of money, and should get something out of it, but I'm working just as hard as the next guy, for almost half as much.

woog315 · November 17th, 2007, 01:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by skydriverdc6

I also dont think its really fair that the career pilot graduates are gonna get $2000/month starting in Jan, and im still stuck at $1200. I mean I agree they spent a lot of money, and should get something out of it, but I'm working just as hard as the next guy, for almost half as much.

That sounds pretty crappy, but honestly if you signed up for a CFI job for a $1,200 salary in this job environment, you pretty much brought it on yourself.

meyers9163 · November 17th, 2007, 11:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by woog315

That sounds pretty crappy, but honestly if you signed up for a CFI job for a $1,200 salary in this job environment, you pretty much brought it on yourself.

Regardless of that though there were those of us who were signed on at the same rate then ATP changed the payscale and the thought was "atp is g reat company they will grandfather those of you who signed in at the same rate into the new scale" needless to say that didnt happen. Either way I am out and happy....... AGAIN i stress ATP is ONLY a means to an end....... they are not there to really help nor hurt you.... they could care less..... period....

Asta · November 19th, 2007, 20:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clocks

You make $3200/m and fly 80-120 hours a month of multi? I really doubt that.

Can a CFI at ATP count on 80-120 multi hours per month? At all locations? And can ATP CFI rent the plane for time-building at a reduced rate?

Is it really 7 days, 12 hours for the duration?

meyers9163 · November 19th, 2007, 20:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asta

Can a CFI at ATP count on 80-120 multi hours per month? At all locations? And can ATP CFI rent the plane for time-building at a reduced rate?

Is it really 7 days, 12 hours for the duration?

80 hours of ME a month? haha I doubt that an ACP Instructor only gets about 70 a month. If you are doing privates you get zero. If you do add ons (which was my thing) you have to keep in mind you are doing 8 hours of single work for CSEL/CFI SE so you are doing a lot of single engine stuff as well. Needless to say it depends..... I would say if you do ACP you can count on 70ME a month. If you are doing add ons i'd say more so 50-60 a month. I was there for three months and only got 100ME in three months. Half of my time was Single engine.

In addition 12 hours is correct IF not more. I cant remember the days that I was out by 5pm... Most days were 8am-every bit of 8pm days...... YOu fly when the planes are free and if you cant get a plane until late the job gets done late! Period... you dont want to do that dont go to ATP!

Clocks · November 19th, 2007, 21:18

Must vary pretty wildly between locations. I got 22 hours of SE with my 192 hours of multi as a CFI.

Asta · November 19th, 2007, 22:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clocks

Must vary pretty wildly between locations. I got 22 hours of SE with my 192 hours of multi as a CFI.

over how many months? and at what location?

Clocks · November 20th, 2007, 10:05

3 months at RIC. Other instructors flew more (one was doing well over 100/m), but I strongly disliked doing addons so for the majority of the time my only students would be my two 90 day people (we had it set up so each instructor would have 2 career students, and we rotated the addons).

atpn2008 · December 27th, 2007, 23:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clocks

3 months at RIC. Other instructors flew more (one was doing well over 100/m), but I strongly disliked doing addons so for the majority of the time my only students would be my two 90 day people (we had it set up so each instructor would have 2 career students, and we rotated the addons).

Are there locations that just have multi training?

kfour · December 28th, 2007, 00:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by atpn2008

Are there locations that just have multi training?

Ft Lauderdale is multi only I believe...

atpn2008 · December 28th, 2007, 11:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clocks

3 months at RIC. Other instructors flew more (one was doing well over 100/m), but I strongly disliked doing addons so for the majority of the time my only students would be my two 90 day people (we had it set up so each instructor would have 2 career students, and we rotated the addons).

What are "addons" and how does the bonus pay work? Thanks

LoadMasterC141 · December 28th, 2007, 11:30

Add-ons are extra ratings or licenses, rather than a program. So, getting your Multi license is an Add-On for example.

Not sure of the exact $$ figures, but bonuses are awarded when your student passes a checkride on the first try. If you are doing Add-ons, you get lots of students doing short ratings. More checkride potential equals more bonus potential. I would guess an off the street CFI will not initially get choice positions like this though.

atpn2008 · December 28th, 2007, 11:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoadMasterC141

Add-ons are extra ratings or licenses, rather than a program. So, getting your Multi license is an Add-On for example.

Not sure of the exact $$ figures, but bonuses are awarded when your student passes a checkride on the first try. If you are doing Add-ons, you get lots of students doing short ratings. More checkride potential equals more bonus potential. I would guess an off the street CFI will not initially get choice positions like this though.

OK, so the new CFI will probably just get 2, 90-day program students and then addons after some time working.

Thanks,

November 14th, 2007, 08:59	#1
mooneyguy Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: San Antonio TX Posts: 622	CFI'ING (is that a word:-)...)at ATP OK, I am curious. I am starting to think about going the CFI route for my first flying gig. Then I see the ad here on JC about the "extras" you get from ATP. First you go through their multi Flight Proficiency probrgam in JAX which is 6 hrs in the nole and 25 in an ftd (at no charg to you). Then after 300 dual given you get the Regional Jet Standards Certification for free. then the Extra Income Opportunities, for alumni, which gives you working possiblities on your off days from you "new airline" job. which seems like a great idea, if im sitting in a crash pad while on reserve waiting for work, some extra cash would be good! SO...What is the catch here? Is there a signing contract? How much (or little) are you paid as a CFI? Do you have to work 7 days a week? What is the "Standard Instructor Track" up to 6 Weeks in Jacksonville Scheduling Center, all about? ANY info you can provide would be great! THANK YOU __________________ FLY SAFE <Tim>< CMEL CSEL CFI CFII http://desiretofly.blogspot.com/

November 14th, 2007, 09:41	#2
meyers9163 Old Skool Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Indiana Posts: 2,180	Re: CFI'ING (is that a word:-)...)at ATP Not bad.... They said 10k worth of training and that's BULL..... The standarization is much of a joke..... You get about 5 hours in the nole. However they probably calculate that at their rate of 375 and hour for the plane when in all reality we know it doesnt cost them near that. In addition they say 25 hours in the FTD again that's something I dont believe. Yes you have access to it while you are there but again they own them and you probably only do about 1 hour a day for 7 days in that thing with the "instructor" there. Again so only about 7 hours. In addition the jet course you do get. However it is only after 300 dual given at atp when you are making 1200 a month if you are an outside instructor. If you are an ACP you get 1600 and will be 2000 in Janurary. But again if you are an outsider they could care less. I know my recent paycheck didnt go up any even though i did 4 ratings here and had been hired on with the old payscale much like the others did..... Needless to say I'm glad to get out because I couldnt make myself stick around any longer at a pay that is subpar to those who I instructed and are now instructing and making more money. Simply put ATP is a means to an end...... Go there get your hours get out. If you want to get some where and you want it fast go and do it. Other wise its just another place to instruct. Dont buy into the "10,000 worth of training" they are trying to sell.... That's completely a joke....... Also if you do sign up for the jet course dont use the software unless you are doing the jet course. Recently the guy in charge of that tried calling me and telling me I used the software and would have to pay when I politley reminded him to look it up and I never touched it. Anyways again I had a great time meeting some great INSTRUCTORS and the management at my location. However its simply a MEANS to an end. Oh and days off?? HAHAHA no sir you are to be available 24/7 if the need comes for you to fly. If the wx is crapy and you are doing an ATP add on.... and all day long it stinks and at 2am the wx clears.... yes you are expected to fly then and have that student ready for their checkride the next morning..... no days off... I believe the mentality is, "you are only here 90 days instructing you can get days off when you leave"

November 14th, 2007, 20:24	#3
Clocks Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Hired 11/07. Furloughed 10/08 Posts: 1,241	Re: CFI'ING (is that a word:-)...)at ATP Is there a signing contract? Not that I know of How much (or little) are you paid as a CFI? $1200/m minus $300 if you live in their housing. I made about $200-400/m in bonuses also. Do you have to work 7 days a week? 7 days a week, 12+ hours a day __________________ How many times are YOU going to vote for Obama?

November 15th, 2007, 05:03	#4
SIUav8er Senior Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: at work Posts: 954	Re: CFI'ING (is that a word:-)...)at ATP $1600 + bonuses now, and $2000 a month + bonuses starting january. still borderline slave labor though....it sucks how they have "b" scale pay rate for the non ACP instructors. __________________ Commercial Pilot, CE-500 Gold Seal CFI.II.MEI IGI Future GoJet Pilot.

November 15th, 2007, 18:58	#5
SpiraMirabilis Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,493	Re: CFI'ING (is that a word:-)...)at ATP Is that "B" scale for non $55k ACP instructors? __________________ Yet Another Turboprop FO*

November 16th, 2007, 00:08	#8
BuickCFI Old Skool Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: South of the Border Posts: 1,948	Re: CFI'ING (is that a word:-)...)at ATP damn, that sucks. i know i am not making much compared to some but 1600/month? i make double that __________________ CFI, CFII, MEI -Why is it when two planes almost hit each other it is called a near miss? Shouldn't it be called a near hit?

November 16th, 2007, 17:20	#9
bap327 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: BOSTON Posts: 460	Re: CFI'ING (is that a word:-)...)at ATP Do they want all three ratings or can you come on with the Initial and get the II and MEI while you work? __________________ Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been , and there you will always long to return. - Leonardo da Vinci

November 17th, 2007, 00:31	#13
skydriverdc6 Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 106	Re: CFI'ING (is that a word:-)...)at ATP I've been at ATP for about 7 weeks now and accumulated around 25 hrs of multi time. Standardization was a little difficult for me because i didnt do any training at ATP at all. So learning all these pairing codes and such was a pain in the A$$. I'd never flown a seminole before either. And of course they tell you that youll get 6 hrs of seminole time and 25 FTD, which really means youll get as much as they think youll need. In my case I got 2 hours with an instructor in the seminole, 5 hours in the sim, and then the dreaded "Rich" ride came. Im at a one man location and after hearing all the BS during standardization about working 7 days a week I went in one day and said " I dont know if this is for me" because I dont like the idea of working 7 days a week for 10-12 hours a day, and they said "oh no, you wont be working that much, not at your location" then once I arrived on location I found out we were starting with 90 day guys and ive been working like a maniac since day one. It wouldnt be so bad if I was flying all that time, but with ATP writtens every other day, and 40 hrs of teaching students to fly the SIM (which isnt increasing my multi time) all for $1200/month, its not really worth it. I also dont think its really fair that the career pilot graduates are gonna get $2000/month starting in Jan, and im still stuck at $1200. I mean I agree they spent a lot of money, and should get something out of it, but I'm working just as hard as the next guy, for almost half as much.

November 19th, 2007, 21:18	#18
Clocks Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Hired 11/07. Furloughed 10/08 Posts: 1,241	Re: CFI'ING (is that a word:-)...)at ATP Must vary pretty wildly between locations. I got 22 hours of SE with my 192 hours of multi as a CFI. __________________ How many times are YOU going to vote for Obama?

November 20th, 2007, 10:05	#20
Clocks Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Hired 11/07. Furloughed 10/08 Posts: 1,241	Re: CFI'ING (is that a word:-)...)at ATP 3 months at RIC. Other instructors flew more (one was doing well over 100/m), but I strongly disliked doing addons so for the majority of the time my only students would be my two 90 day people (we had it set up so each instructor would have 2 career students, and we rotated the addons). __________________ How many times are YOU going to vote for Obama?

December 28th, 2007, 11:30	#24
LoadMasterC141 Old Skool Join Date: May 2006 Location: Live in Arlington, TX - From Ithaca, NY - Wish I was on an island in Fiji Posts: 1,929	Re: CFI'ING (is that a word:-)...)at ATP Add-ons are extra ratings or licenses, rather than a program. So, getting your Multi license is an Add-On for example. Not sure of the exact $$ figures, but bonuses are awarded when your student passes a checkride on the first try. If you are doing Add-ons, you get lots of students doing short ratings. More checkride potential equals more bonus potential. I would guess an off the street CFI will not initially get choice positions like this though.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode