Becoming a Flight Instructor at ATP

[megathor]

This is a question for those of you who have gone through the CFI program at ATP: Did any of you doubt your ability to teach prior to the course, but then found it not so difficult upon completion?
I'm not so much concerned about my ability to retain the knowledge necessary to instruct, but, rather, my ability to adequately and effectively convey the information without boring someone. Plus, I'm not too keen on public speaking, which would definitely be a hindrance in the ground-school portion.
Any thoughts?

[DE727UPS]

No matter where you trained for your CFI, it's a license to learn. The only way to become a better instructor is through experience. Just get the ticket and jump in with both feet and a good attitude. That's how thousands before you who had the same doubts made it happen.

[777forever]

Originally Posted by DE727UPS

No matter where you trained for your CFI, it's a license to learn. The only way to become a better instructor is through experience. Just get the ticket and jump in with both feet and a good attitude. That's how thousands before you who had the same doubts made it happen.

[Fly_Unity]

A year ago I wouldve never imagined me being an instructor, Went to ATP, and luckily I had a good instructor, from day one had me doing lesson plans. And from those that know me in real life, Im about as shy as it gets, and I cannot do public speaking. CFI school at ATP was pretty difficult, not the knowlege part, but teaching in front of the classroom. The first couple hundred hours teaching was kinda tough, but now after teaching the same stuff over and over, you will figure out what works, and what dont. When I go flying now with a student, Its like I know exactly what to say, and how to say it, and its easy to talk to much now. I still got a long ways to go, Im about to start Instrument instruction and feeling the same anxiety I had before.

[megathor]

Thanks for the encouraging words, guys.

Fly Unity, the CFI school you are speaking of, are you talking about the two-week training in JAX after the 90-Day Program (when you've been hired by ATP) or is this the CFI training in the remaining three weeks of the 90-Day Program? I'd find it unusual that you'd already be teaching during the 90-Day Program.

[Fly_Unity]

Originally Posted by megathor

Thanks for the encouraging words, guys.

Fly Unity, the CFI school you are speaking of, are you talking about the two-week training in JAX after the 90-Day Program (when you've been hired by ATP) or is this the CFI training in the remaining three weeks of the 90-Day Program? I'd find it unusual that you'd already be teaching during the 90-Day Program.

Im talking about CFI school that WAS PART of the 90 day program, I never was hired by ATP, Was offered a job at ATP, but Im making slightly more money at another 141 school.

When I said they had me doing lesson plans from day one, I meant my Instructor would teach me something, then make me teach it to him back on the whiteboard, then critique me. which helped some when I got to CFI school. I also went back home for Christmas break, and practiced on my 9 younger siblings, if they gave me blank looks, I knew I was doing something wrong. The hardest part is simple-ling it down

[megathor]

Wow, that's pretty thorough. Is it safe to assume all ATP instructors teach in this manner?

[Captain_Bob]

Honestly... no. Everyone will teach how they feel most comfortable... within the guidlines of the PTS of course. But... as has been said before... regardless of the place you train at... a good instructor can make a wonderful training experience for you, while a bad instructor can make it miserable.

The best thing you can do... is have a sit down with your instructor when you first meet up and ask him his teaching technique... see if it can mesh with how you learn best and be open to changes. Communicate how you learn best and I'm certain you both will see some common ground. If you find an instructor who teaches one way... and only one way... regardless of who they are teaching too or how well they understand it... then I'd be a bit concerned.

Regardless... just keep the lines of communication open.

By the time you become an instructor... you will have developed several of your own lesson plans, you will have figured out how you learn best, you will have seen how your fellow pilots learn best, you will have seen some great instructors that you'd like to steal information and ideas from, and you will have seen some bad instructors that you will decide to never treat your students the way they treated theirs. In addition... all your life experience in dealing with people will become a major compnonent in your teaching, as well as pulling in all the resources of folks you considered to be "mentors" in the past. In a way... you will become an amalgum of all the best teachers you have known, and will have hopefully filtered out all the bad along the way.

A little wordy... but... sincere.

Bob

[cre8flyer]

Don't worry too much about teaching. In my experience. . . the instructor does not teach (at ATP or anywhere else). Rather, the student must learn. All the instructor can do is create the right environment for the student to learn.

Sometimes his (slightly) superior knowledge and experience is useful. More often it is a hindrance because the instructor tries to force his ideas on the student instead of creating the right environment for the student to learn.

. . . a bit philosophical. . . but my 2c worth. . .

[SIUav8er]

Originally Posted by cre8flyer

Don't worry too much about teaching. In my experience. . . the instructor does not teach (at ATP or anywhere else).

Uhh, that makes no sense. You must have had a bad experience.

Originally Posted by cre8flyer

Rather, the student must learn. All the instructor can do is create the right environment for the student to learn.

Wait a minute... Isnt that considered teaching?

[atpwannabe]

I have a few questions for those of you who became ATP instructors after completing the ACPP. Btw, DE727UPS...that was a great story to read. In the famous words of the SmithBarney spokesman,"You did yours the old fashion way...you earned it."

a. What is the percentage of students that become CFI's @ ATP?

b. What's the criteria for becoming a CFI @ ATP? (Published & non-pub)

c. Say for instance a student doesn't pass or elects not to go the route of the lower hiring mins, do they still have the opportunity to become an instructor and how many hours does the instructor picks up per month?

d. What is the average TT and ME for students/CFI's that are hired say anywhere from 10-14 months after starting their training with ATP?

I'm asking that your info be accurate and specific. I'm not looking for general info. Sixty-five thou (65K) is quite a chunk of change to invest. Finished 1st Class Med and discovery flight. Sending all requested info next week to get a starting class date. Will hold out for JAX to do both programs...60 & 90 day.

Thanks for your response.



atp

[N826AW]

Originally Posted by atpwannabe

a. What is the percentage of students that become CFI's @ ATP?

I don't have this on hand but I can try to find out for you.

b. What's the criteria for becoming a CFI @ ATP? (Published & non-pub)

It's pretty easy to become a CFI after you complete the ACPP program. Just don't rub anyone the wrong way or bust major checkrides. Though I know of someone who busted his instrument and was hired on.

c. Say for instance a student doesn't pass or elects not to go the route of the lower hiring mins, do they still have the opportunity to become an instructor and how many hours does the instructor picks up per month?

Doesn't pass what? The ACPP program? If you do not pass the ACPP you cannot instruct becasue you will not have your CFI ratings.

d. What is the average TT and ME for students/CFI's that are hired say anywhere from 10-14 months after starting their training with ATP?

It's hard to say what people are hired at because they come to ATP with different experience and leave with different experience. If you start fresh and then instruct at ATP, you obviously have the hours from the program and then whatever you pick up instructing. As far as hours you accumulate while instructing, I have been told it depends on the location you are at. Here in PHX, it's about 100+ per month on the Cessnas and 70 on the Seminoles. The 'Airline Placements' page on the ATP site may give you a little more info but I do not think it paints the whole picture. Remember, you do not necessarily need to instruct at ATP after finishing the ACPP.

[atpwannabe]

HP N826AW:

Thanks for responding. I certainly appreciate your time & effort.

One other question though... ;
Who & what determines which aircraft I will instruct in? Is it based on performance/proficiency??

Btw, haven't read your blog yet, but I will.

Blue skies.


atp

[flyermb]

I dont work for ATP, but I'm sure like any school the aircraft will depend on your student. Private Pilot student = cessna. Career program student=primarily seminole

[atpwannabe]

Originally Posted by flyermb

I dont work for ATP, but I'm sure like any school the aircraft will depend on your student. Private Pilot student = cessna. Career program student=primarily seminole

You're right. I called ATP today and spoke to Chad. He informed me that after completing the ACPP, that I would have a choice of where I want to instruct. In order to exclusively get ME time, I plan on choosing either SUA or FLL/FXE. ATP has the 90 ACPP at each of these locations.

In that way, my ME time will hopefully be at least 60-75% of my TT.



atp

[N826AW]

Originally Posted by atpwannabe

HP N826AW:

Thanks for responding. I certainly appreciate your time & effort.

One other question though... ;
Who & what determines which aircraft I will instruct in? Is it based on performance/proficiency??

No problem.

Here in PHX, new instructors go to the Cessnas first. Then as instructors leave they are moved over to the career/add-on students. No doubt performance and proficieny come into play. But if you're not proficient instructing you would most likely be looking for a new job.

If you go to a location with no Private program, then it's right to the Seminoles.

[Clocks]

At our location we have dedicated "private" instructors and "career" instructors. No seniority comes into play. Although all of the private instructors did the 90 day program so they already have >100 hours of multi.

[cfii2007]

What is it like to get hired from the outside?

[atpwannabe]

Ok guys, I've identified the Seminole bases. They are as follows:

BHM
FLL/FXE
MCO
RDU
SUA
RIC

Now, SUA, FLL/FXE & MCO are closes to me. If any instructors out there are based in these cities, please share the average amount of flight time you accumulate on a monthly basis and what is the "general" work schedule. I am aware that it will vary from location to location.

Sorry if I sound redundant, however, I just want to get all the facts and have a clear & definite plan of action when training starts for me in January.

Thanks guys.


atp

[atpwannabe]

Originally Posted by Clocks

At our location we have dedicated "private" instructors and "career" instructors. No seniority comes into play. Although all of the private instructors did the 90 day program so they already have >100 hours of multi.

Clocks,

What location is that?


atp

[Clocks]

Originally Posted by atpwannabe

Clocks,

What location is that?


atp

RIC

I've flown 194.6 hours of ME and 22.3 hours of SE since 7/2. That's almost exclusively flying with career students. I could have flown more if I had wanted to pick up more add-ons (I did 3 or 4 add-ons, and strongly prefer flying with career students).

Also as a heads up:
MCO (actually ORL) is a very slow base. Did my MEI/II add-ons there and the last time I looked it up I think they fly about 40 hours a month between the 2 instructors.
RDU and BHM are both 1 CFI locations, and I'd gamble they aren't super busy but I can't look up their schedule any more.

Also keep in mind once you come out of the career program you'll already have >100 hours of multi. There's nothing bad about teaching privates since you don't really need the multi time (and you'll build a lot of time that way, since each private student gets 85 hours in less than 60 days). Although I'd have to say I learned a lot teaching instruments that I don't think I would have learned if I was a private instructor.

[atpwannabe]

Originally Posted by Clocks

RIC

I've flown 194.6 hours of ME and 22.3 hours of SE since 7/2. That's almost exclusively flying with career students. I could have flown more if I had wanted to pick up more add-ons (I did 3 or 4 add-ons, and strongly prefer flying with career students).

Also as a heads up:
MCO (actually ORL) is a very slow base. Did my MEI/II add-ons there and the last time I looked it up I think they fly about 40 hours a month between the 2 instructors.
RDU and BHM are both 1 CFI locations, and I'd gamble they aren't super busy but I can't look up their schedule any more.

Also keep in mind once you come out of the career program you'll already have >100 hours of multi. There's nothing bad about teaching privates since you don't really need the multi time (and you'll build a lot of time that way, since each private student gets 85 hours in less than 60 days). Although I'd have to say I learned a lot teaching instruments that I don't think I would have learned if I was a private instructor.

Bet it up!!!

I appreciate the heads up info.

Well, it looks like either JAX, SUA or FLL/FXE. I'm just going to have to study hard and perform at a higher proficiency level in order to get the PA-44.

Thanks again...blue skies.


atp

[BillH]

I am currently a student at SUA, well finishing up with my CFI ratings.
SUA is nice, very tight knit group of guys, everyone helps each other out and it's like a big family. The instructors are good guys there, although as with any flight school, they come and go as they get the hours to go work with the airlines.
Don't count on getting into SUA as an instructor any time soon though, theres a waiting list!