Get to ATP by Novemeber!!!

[DenverPilot8]

Well you can expect to hear the announcement within the next 2 weeks. Price is increasing by 5k to $54,995. It will however include the CRJ course. They also said that they will increase CFI pay. If you want the old price you will have to get a class date by Novemeber.

I'm debating now. They might have gone just past my price thresh-hold.

But those of you who are serious about going to ATP I would get in before the price increase. I'm assuming that you would still get the CRJ course at the old price.

[aloft]

ATP was a good deal 5-6 years ago, when it was $28-$32k. Now, not so much. Forcing students to pay for the RJ course is ridiculous.

[v1valarob]

So lets see how this thread is going to go:

1.Post about price increase
2.People post about how its getting a bit to steep
3.DE727UPS comments
4.Someone lashes back at DE727UPS
5.Someone gets back on track
6.Someone says "I cant go anymore, its just not worth it"
7.Blah blah blah blahgegimwieomw


Anyway....

Yea, $55k is getting REALLY costly. The RJ course is not worth $5k more.

But a pay increase for instructors is good!

BUT it doesnt make sense that alot of people go from 90 dayers to CFIs at ATP. So the whole "RJ course for instructors for free" makes no sense if you already have it.

The plan that someone else made of getting your COMM at an FBO for cheap and then CFI school at ATP and CFI at ATP for ME time is starting to look good.

-Rob

[daru1]

Originally Posted by v1valarob

So lets see how this thread is going to go:

1.Post about price increase
2.People post about how its getting a bit to steep
3.DE727UPS comments
4.Someone lashes back at DE727UPS
5.Someone gets back on track
6.Someone says "I cant go anymore, its just not worth it"
7.Blah blah blah blahgegimwieomw

PERFECT!

[DenverPilot8]

Yeah I have seen the threads that are exactly like that. I meant this thread more as a warning. If there are people out there like myself that are saving for flight school (specifically ATP) then they might want to know what's coming that's all.

[alknew182]

Originally Posted by v1valarob

So lets see how this thread is going to go:

1.Post about price increase
2.People post about how its getting a bit to steep
3.DE727UPS comments
4.Someone lashes back at DE727UPS
5.Someone gets back on track
6.Someone says "I cant go anymore, its just not worth it"
7.Blah blah blah blahgegimwieomw

hahaha...Nice

Here is my thought on this whole price increase..... I usally don't say to much on this forum, but fact of the matter is simple. If you don't like the price then find somewhere else to go....I started my flying at an academy type school with my pvt cert, I went to a 141 school in Deland Flordia to start. If anyone is familar with this school it is just like any other 141 school out there, they make all kinds of promises that just are not what actually happens. They give you a price for the program which was 62,995.99 and that gives you everything that ATP does with their ACPP Instrument-CFII (no MEI, and they have the jet course in there too which the cost is 12,999 at the other school in Deland). Now when I was almost done with my instrument I had to leave the school due to an agreement with them and the loan company, but before I left I had spent almost 12,000 just on instrument alone and I was quoted around 8000, but when you add in all the breifs and all the time down for broken planes, and haveing to show to your instructor that you still remember everything before the down time, you bring in a lot of extra costs. Now as the program goes on you could expect to pay more for all of the ratings for all the same reasons, but ATPs program (which im not saying is for everyone nor am I saying its the best one out there for everyone) is a fixed cost, if you fail a checkride you are givin retraining, and you dont have to pay more for that or for the plane to do your checkride over again(only you have to pay for the DE again). If you are looking to get your ratings done in a short amount of time, and not have to find out about all of the hidden costs as you go then the choice is kind of obvious. The only other way is to go to a local FBO yea its cheaper, but will take longer to complete. ATP is a company that is there to make money, and as prices go up for gas then program costs are going to go up. They add the jet course to the program for one reason and one reason only it is what the airlines want, why else would they hire pilots with less then mins? They make the program attractive to futrue students that want to go to the airlines, and to the airlines that are doing the hiring.

Ok im off my soapbox you just need to do some research to find out what works for you. I hope you can take my misfortune from the 141 school and see how the price of ATP really is not so bad. Supply and Demand,remember they are a company in a industry that is booming and desprate for pilots for the time being.

Alknew182

[Maximillian_Jenius]

Originally Posted by DenverPilot8

Well you can expect to hear the announcement within the next 2 weeks. Price is increasing by 5k to $54,995. It will however include the CRJ course. They also said that they will increase CFI pay. If you want the old price you will have to get a class date by Novemeber.

I'm debating now. They might have gone just past my price thresh-hold.

But those of you who are serious about going to ATP I would get in before the price increase. I'm assuming that you would still get the CRJ course at the old price.

So if you reserve at the old price, you don't get any of the new added course benefits? Most imporatantly more money for instructors?

[v1valarob]

Originally Posted by Maximillian_Jenius

So if you reserve at the old price, you don't get any of the new added course benefits?

Well with the old price increase you had to START before June 31st, I don't think it mattered if you put down a deposit. So I'm assuming this is the same, you have to be ready to start by November.

-Rob

[stillageek]

New price is up. As in the past ATP is quite fair. Start fast track by 12/31/07 and you get the old price. Start self paced by 10/31/07 for old price. Start any time after that (unless you have already put down a deposit before the increase was announced) and you get the new price. I know when I was in the pit I saw some guys schedule 6-7 months out (meaning scheduling January in May). Those guys get the old price regardless. If someone called today to schedule January, they would get the old price.

[v1valarob]

haha



Thats a funny logo.

-Rob

[mtsu_av8er]

They have to force you to buy the RJ course - it's worthless.

[Gizmo]

Originally Posted by mtsu_av8er

They have to force you to buy the RJ course - it's worthless.

BINGO!

[nkoenig]

How do they manage to fit in the RJ course into the 90 day time frame? Isn't 90 days pretty tight as it is for the normal training?

[SIUav8er]

Originally Posted by nkoenig

How do they manage to fit in the RJ course into the 90 day time frame? Isn't 90 days pretty tight as it is for the normal training?

thats what im trying to figure out and i work here! im not a big fan of the RJ course weither and am glad i wasnt forced to pay for it.

[DE727UPS]

"They have to force you to buy the RJ course - it's worthless."

No, you didn't get it.

It's free now... Many say worthless, but it's free.

I mentioned this at the other site. It's interesting that ACPP 90 day wonders get paid $1600/mo for instructing but folks that do their ratings at an FBO cheaper and come to ATP for the CFI and get a job, only make the $1200/mo guarantee. Just a funny factoid that maybe one of the ATP guys can explain to the masses.

The way I see it, CFI's got a $4/hr raise and a free RJ course for the extra 5K. I'm guessing the price increase is more for the Diamond Jets and increasing costs of fuel. Nothing wrong with that. The guys that own ATP need to make a few bucks, too, right?

As to my participation at this forum. The mudsliging means nothing to me. It's pretty hard to intimidate a UPS Capt at an aviation careers website when you have 200 hours. I'm here because I think it's important that people see the side of the picture they wouldn't see if only ATP guys posted here. I've been a CFI since 1980 and I think I know a thing or two about flight training. Also, I was an all ATP customer for both my ATP and CFIMEI. Should I tell the story again?

[amorris311]

this is quite interesting. from what i hear on the inside is that they use the rj course as leverage. they keeep pushing the dates back to keep instructors longer. there are downsides to everything. i do not think i will participate int eh rj course. even though it will be free for me i dont think i will partake. the crm class would be the only thing i would really be interested in. i dont think there can be enough crm training.

[N826AW]

Originally Posted by DE727UPS

I mentioned this at the other site. It's interesting that ACPP 90 day wonders get paid $1600/mo for instructing but folks that do their ratings at an FBO cheaper and come to ATP for the CFI and get a job, only make the $1200/mo guarantee. Just a funny factoid that maybe one of the ATP guys can explain to the masses.

I'm taking a shot in the dark here but I think it could be 1 or 2 things:

1.) Instructors who complete the ACPP program will have covered the cost of the RJ course with their tuition, so they get $1600 a month. The others get $1200 and the RJ course as part of their compensation. Though this doesn't really explain how current instructors are getting a free RJ course and will eventually get a raise.

2.) They are having trouble retaining ACPP students because with the 150 or so hours of multi-time they can get on at a regional without instructing.

I'm glad I got in before the RJ course was "included." I'm curious to see what the price will go up to when the D-Jets are incorporated into the program. People will line up to pay it though because you can get your training in a jet.

[DE727UPS]

Okay. Still not sure it makes sense to me. The RJ course is a carrot, kind of like the nasty rotten one that sat in my fridge too long, but it would seem that both ACPP and non-ACPP guys would bite equally.

I can see that the ACPP guys paid for more to get to the point of actually eating the carrot. But, that wouldn't make the non-ACP guys any less likely to eat it too. The whole point seems to be to get people to stick around long enough to bring up the next generation of 90 day wonders. I would think both non-ACPP and ACPP's alike could be equally motivated to do so.

[N826AW]

Originally Posted by DE727UPS

Okay. Still not sure it makes sense to me.
I can see that the ACPP guys paid for more to get to the point of actually eating the carrot. But, that wouldn't make the non-ACP guys any less likely to eat it too....The whole point seems to be to get people to stick around long enough to bring up the next generation of 90 day wonders. I would think both non-ACPP and ACPP's alike could be equally motivated to do so.

Like I said it's just my guess.

I disagree that ACPP and non-ACPPs are equally motivated to stick around and instruct at ATP. An ACPP grad or an ATP CFI school grad may or may not really want to instruct at ATP. An off-the-street CFI will be applying for the position. I think it would be rare to find someone who applies for a CFI job that he doesn't want.

I would think the difference in salary is a way to get the non-ACPP CFIs to "pay" for the RJ course since it is now "included" in the standardization program. The extra money also seems to be an enticement to retain ACPP grads as instructors. They are retaining them now by offering the free RJ course after they hit 500 hours. Soon the RJ course will be included in the ACPP program. So what's the incentive to stick around when I can go freelance and work half as much for the same dough? Non-ACPPs will see it as 'yeah the money sucks but I get a ride in a non-motion RJ sim and I can get on at Eagle with only 400TT.'

Originally Posted by DE727UPS

The RJ course is a carrot, kind of like the nasty rotten one that sat in my fridge too long, but it would seem that both ACPP and non-ACPP guys would bite equally.

HAHAHA. Interesting analogy, but I agree. Especially since I don't like fresh carrots nevermind a rotten one.

[Maximillian_Jenius]

When the price increases if you instruct with ATP you will not get a refund for the RJ course. Even though as an instructor, the course is supposed to be "free."

Yea, talked to them yesterday afternoon.

[DenverPilot8]

Man with a $10,000 increase just this year it's hard to keep up. I mean they were placing hundreds of pilots into the regionals with their old program when it was only $44,995. I still think that their biggest asset is the multi-engine time, and airline style cross country. Lets face it though the RJ course isn't "included" you pay for it. I think personally I would rather insturct for an extra 100-200 hours and possibly make a few thousand dollars rather than get a reduced hiring minimum by paying $5000 for the RJ course. Just my preference though.

[DE727UPS]

"So what's the incentive to stick around when I can go freelance and work half as much for the same dough?"

It's pretty hard to find free-lance multi time. The draw towards ATP is the ability to do so much of your ratings in a twin. There is a price associated with that, though. When you have two motors instead of one, gas costs twice as much. And gas is getting crazy expensive.

"airline style cross country"

What is this airline style cross country I keep hearing about? There was a whole thread here not long ago entitled "life of an airline pilot" and was nothing more than peoples X-C timebuilding experiences at ATP. How does that relate to airline flying?

[GaTechKid]

I did the program in 2004 for $35K. That's an increase of $20,000 in just 3 years, and I probably wouldn't be able to afford it if I had waited until now. A $60,000 loan to repay on the 3-7 years as an instructor/regional FO is scary to think about.

[DenverPilot8]

Yeah 2 engines costs more than one but during the cross countrys you have 2 students paying for that at a time. So really they are getting twice the amount that it costs for the multi-engine plane.

[v1valarob]

Originally Posted by DE727UPS

"airline style cross country"

What is this airline style cross country I keep hearing about? There was a whole thread here not long ago entitled "life of an airline pilot" and was nothing more than peoples X-C timebuilding experiences at ATP. How does that relate to airline flying?

That was my thread. I didnt mean the actual flying to be "airline style" just the fact that the first day we where delayed for about 5 hours due to MX issues and that was the "airline pilot life," waiting for MX to fix a small problem.

After you get your instrument rating you have to build the hours for your commercial rating, so ATP gives you 75hrs XC time as part of the package to build it. Half of that time is safety pilot time however.

Basically for 2-3 weeks you are doing just XC's, you call dispatch in Jacksonville and they tell you which other student you are flying with, what plane, and to where. I traveled all the way north as Salem, OR and as far south/east as Stuart, FL. It was pretty awesome considering I am based out of Riverside, CA and I managed to make it that far.

-Rob