Current CFI's on the Forum (shortly removed)

[meyers9163]

Just wondering if we actually have any current ATP CFI's out there on this forum? And or any one who has recently moved on from instructing if it be another CFI job or a regional or another gig in general? I havent noticed much movement on the forum about CFI's any more. We constantly hear about people going to do the CFI stuff but never hear more.... Do we have any out there?

[Fly_Unity]

Originally Posted by meyers9163

Just wondering if we actually have any current ATP CFI's out there on this forum? And or any one who has recently moved on from instructing if it be another CFI job or a regional or another gig in general? I havent noticed much movement on the forum about CFI's any more. We constantly hear about people going to do the CFI stuff but never hear more.... Do we have any out there?

I got done with ATP a couple months ago, currently instructing in Oklahoma at a 141 school, and enjoying it. I know several other CFI's from ATP on this board, that went on to other schools to teach.

[meyers9163]

Originally Posted by Fly_Unity

I got done with ATP a couple months ago, currently instructing in Oklahoma at a 141 school, and enjoying it. I know several other CFI's from ATP on this board, that went on to other schools to teach.

Why did you end up leaving yourself (i dont want assumptions, i want his reasons).

[turbomax97]

*raises hand* Whaddup?!

[Fly_Unity]

Originally Posted by meyers9163

Why did you end up leaving yourself (i dont want assumptions, i want his reasons).

Why I left?

I got a job closer to home, slightly higher pay, less stressful job.

I love instructing, and learning, but I thought I would get burnt-out flight instructing at ATP. The bad part is, is that I dont get multi time, but Im already at 140 multi and in no rush to go to the airlines (if at all).

I still endorse ATP, the real cross countries experience is pretty cool, and I haven't found another school yet that you go all over the United States in a Multi engine airplane.

[KW]

I'm not at ATP, but you might be interested anyway. I haven't stopped instructing, but I did find a part time contract gig right-seating in a King Air 200. It's only occasional right now, but a step in the right direction. Four instructors at the school I'm at left for regionals or air ambulence in the past month, and I'm betting two or more will leave in the next month or two. There is definitely movement out there, just not many people posting about it.

[Clocks]

I'm going there in 2 weeks for II/MEI and hope to be teaching there. I plan to stay active here

[eastbayk]

How recent are you looking for? A-dub made a move to the regionals in mid-march and is finishing training this weekend. I know 5 other instructors (from various locations) that have gone on to regionals since he left, but I don't think any of them were on here.

K

[meyers9163]

Originally Posted by eastbayk

How recent are you looking for? A-dub made a move to the regionals in mid-march and is finishing training this weekend. I know 5 other instructors (from various locations) that have gone on to regionals since he left, but I don't think any of them were on here.

K

ANy of them would work.... I'd just love to talk to someone about their experiences etc......

[eastbayk]

I'll PM you his email address.

[Matt777]

I finished the Carrer Pilot Program 13 months ago in Vegas. After having an attempted FORCED dispatch by JAX (Mike) out of KTIW into 50' visibility at night while on the cross country that made me not want to work for them too badly. After CFI school I really knew that was it- that I did not want to work there (In spite of loggin crazy multi time).
I cannot imagine working at ATP and not having time to provide adequate instruction such as pre and post flight briefings and training for things other than the checkride.

I don't know what it is like now, but 13 months ago the CFI school was way too damn fast and then lacking in many ways (particularly after getting the initial MEI done with the FSDO examiner)... but completely in line with the ATP way of "teaching you to pass the checkride".

Make sure you insist that you keep practicing steep turns with those anti-servo tabs from the right seat until YOU are satisfied that you easily meet PTS requirements (that means more than six turns total).

3.8 hours to prepare for the MEI ride, one or two sessions in the Frasca and I think two flights for the CFII, and next to nothing (3 flights?) for the single engine commercial.

NOT COOL

SPIN TRAINING CONSISTS OF THE FOLLOWING: Instructor takes you up in the 172 and shows you ONE spin in each direction. Then he has you do ONE spin in each direction. FLIGHT TIME .5.

I don't know what it is like now.... probably identical.... afterall it is ATP.

Yep

I feel very fortunate that I got my Private License previously at a different (real wolrd/not train for checkride) school where I learned good safety practices and things associated with real world flying as opposed to check ride flying. I am VERY curious what an ATP Private Pilot is like.

But I gotta admit- it did get the job done.

The quality of the pilot you become is entirely in your hands. Study hard.

[Fly_Unity]

Originally Posted by Matt777

3.8 hours to prepare for the MEI ride, one or two sessions in the Frasca and I think two flights for the CFII, and next to nothing (3 flights?) for the single engine commercial.

NOT COOL

SPIN TRAINING CONSISTS OF THE FOLLOWING: Instructor takes you up in the 172 and shows you ONE spin in each direction. Then he has you do ONE spin in each direction. FLIGHT TIME .5

Hmm, that dont sound right,
I had 8 hours for my MEI ride, plus 2 hours of spin training on three different flights. My instructor made me teach him I dont know how many types of different spins, Maybe because the Examiner I had did spins with everyone he went with?

I felt comfortable with every maneuver before I started CFI school, so I thought I had plenty of time.

[cre8flyer]

I finished the ACPP in January '07.

I do not instruct at ATP. Those instructors don't really have time to post here.

My spin training was 0.6 flight time (examiners in PHX do not request spins for the initial CFI checkrides). In JAX the students get much more (I think I remember someone saying up to like 5 hours) spin training because the examiners there do request spins on initial CFI checkrides. After the training the students can come out of a spin on a pre-specified heading. Needless to say. . . I'm not comfortable doing spins and have never spun outside of my 0.6 spin training flight.

ATP does a good job of dragging you, kicking and screaming, through the checkrides. That approach works well if you instruct at ATP immediately afterward to consolidate your knowledge and go directly to the airlines for 121 training.

If you just want to fly around a bit and teach part time at the local FBO you will leave ATP with a fi####l of certificates, but probably not the self confidence or competence to really teach well.

ATP's objective is to train airline pilots. If you want to be an airline pilot they will get you there quickly. If you don't want to be an airline pilot, quit yer bitchin and go the cheaper, slower, more thorough FBO route.

[TaterSalad]

Originally Posted by cre8flyer

If you just want to fly around a bit and teach part time at the local FBO you will leave ATP with a fi####l of certificates, but probably not the self confidence or competence to really teach well.

I disagree. I did the 90 day program, and then instructed at an FBO. Yes, it took me a little while to become a really good instructor (and I believe I earned that title........in my 1.5 years instructing I had 15 endorsements for checkrides, and not a single failure from private pilot to instrument to commercial), but my time at ATP set the stage for that success. It's all about how much effort you put into it at ATP. When I wasn't at the airport, I was in the apartment studying, making sure I filled all the gaps they don't have the time to teach. And I accomplished exactly what I set out to do at ATP; I passed every checkride 1st shot and after 3 months I was earning a paycheck flying.

Beyond that though, I really learned to be a CFI.......while I was working as a CFI. I think that's going to be the case no matter where you got your training. We had instructors at my school (who didn't go to ATP) who wouldn't ask questions of the more senior guys, or discuss teaching techniques and pick their brains, and they had multiple failures. I took advantage of the collective thousands of hrs dual given these guys had, and availed myself of their knowledge.

I guess my point is as I mentioned above and others have said....ATP is what you make of it. I wanted to get in and get done, and they were perfect for that. When I wanted more depth than what they were teaching, I opened the books and searched for it. It's probably not for everyone, but to say you won't have the self-confidence or competence to instruct after training there is a blanket statement that doesn't apply to everyone.

[Fly_Unity]

Originally Posted by cre8flyer

I finished the ACPP in January '07.

I do not instruct at ATP. Those instructors don't really have time to post here.

My spin training was 0.6 flight time (examiners in PHX do not request spins for the initial CFI checkrides). In JAX the students get much more (I think I remember someone saying up to like 5 hours) spin training because the examiners there do request spins on initial CFI checkrides. After the training the students can come out of a spin on a pre-specified heading. Needless to say. . . I'm not comfortable doing spins and have never spun outside of my 0.6 spin training flight.

ATP does a good job of dragging you, kicking and screaming, through the checkrides. That approach works well if you instruct at ATP immediately afterward to consolidate your knowledge and go directly to the airlines for 121 training.

If you just want to fly around a bit and teach part time at the local FBO you will leave ATP with a fi####l of certificates, but probably not the self confidence or competence to really teach well.

ATP's objective is to train airline pilots. If you want to be an airline pilot they will get you there quickly. If you don't want to be an airline pilot, quit yer bitchin and go the cheaper, slower, more thorough FBO route.

Hey, I finished at ATP PHX in Jan /07 too, I thought Scott Always did at least 1 hour of spin training. He spun around with me until I was very comfortable teaching and rolling out on a specific heading at the same time.
This is Ben btw, I think you was in the next class after mine?

[cre8flyer]

Originally Posted by TaterSalad

I disagree. I did the 90 day program, and then instructed at an FBO. Yes, it took me a little while to become a really good instructor (and I believe I earned that title........in my 1.5 years instructing I had 15 endorsements for checkrides, and not a single failure from private pilot to instrument to commercial), but my time at ATP set the stage for that success.

Congratulations on your successes!

You're right on many points you make. I too find that when I left ATP I was prepared to be an instructor just as well (or even better) than instructors from different schools (e.g. University programs, RAA). You're right about it being your personal responsibility and you have to invest time to get there.

A point where our opinions may differ is that I think there is little contribution to this success from ATP (besides the availability of their Seminoles), because IMO the instructors at ATP are generally not worth much. This is not because they are bad people or bad pilots. Rather, they are not worth much because of the environment in which they exist. They are stressed by their chaotic working environment, stressed because they have no $, stressed by imminent loan payments, stressed because they do not have their families / support networks close to them, fatigued by their heavy flight schedules, dehydrated, and focussed on the airlines and not on instructing. You cannot convince me that this is an environment where you'll find good instruction (of course, there are exceptions, my point is about the "average").

However, I believe strongly that the key to avoiding the "fi####ll of certificates but cannot fly" scenario is to proceed directly from ATPs 90 day program and get into the teaching environment immediately. That is the only way to silence "naysayers" who think that the fast pace results in lower quality. "Meaningful repetition" is the way the FOI describes it, and it is an important part of learning.

Now I'll shut up.

[cre8flyer]

Originally Posted by cre8flyer

Now I'll shut up.

No-one said "Good!"

[TaterSalad]

Originally Posted by cre8flyer

Congratulations on your successes!

Thank ya much!

Originally Posted by cre8flyer

A point where our opinions may differ is that I think there is little contribution to this success from ATP (besides the availability of their Seminoles), because IMO the instructors at ATP are generally not worth much. This is not because they are bad people or bad pilots. Rather, they are not worth much because of the environment in which they exist.

Actually, now that I think about it, I believe you're right. The instruction I received at ATP was probably average, and no better than I probably would've received at an FBO. I did benefit from the time frame I was there, however. I don't know how instructors are there now, but when I was there the hiring hadn't picked up yet, and most every instructor we had, had been there teaching for close to 2 years or more, so they had some experience teaching. Given the quick hiring times from ATP now, I'm sure that's no longer the case, and the instructing has probably suffered from it some.......it's just tough to be a good instructor, unless you've been doing it for a little while. I think the biggest benefit of ATP for me, was to get in and out in 90 days (and this was also back when the price was still reasonable, and considered a "good deal").