Anyone ever quit in the middle of the 90 day?

[shipwreck]

Hi all. Long time lurker- first time poster.

Anyone ever have to quit in the middle of the 90 day? On the ATP website it says they have a "fair discontinuence policy", but does anyone know of someone who has had to quit? Were you or they treated fairly with the amount and timeliness of the refund?

[Van_Hoolio]

"Fair" is a subjective term. When you start the program you sign a document that outlines what you'll be charged for housing, training and flight time should you leave the program without finishing, and it is not simply pro-rated in a manner most people would consider fair. You will lose out if you leave early. I'm sure they'd fax you a copy of the discontinuance policy if you wanted to see it while considering the school.

In a way I'm glad the policy is what it is. When I first got to ATP I was shocked at the difference in pace from the small FBO where I got my private. I had dirty thoughts in the back of my mind of quitting, not being sure if I was capable of being successful in the program. However, I knew I'd be somewhat screwed financially if I did so and that gave me the motivation to study hard and change my ways.

Mike

[Pilot2087]

Originally Posted by Van_Hoolio

"Fair" is a subjective term. When you start the program you sign a document that outlines what you'll be charged for housing, training and flight time should you leave the program without finishing, and it is not simply pro-rated in a manner most people would consider fair. You will lose out if you leave early. I'm sure they'd fax you a copy of the discontinuance policy if you wanted to see it while considering the school.

In a way I'm glad the policy is what it is. When I first got to ATP I was shocked at the difference in pace from the small FBO where I got my private. I had dirty thoughts in the back of my mind of quitting, not being sure if I was capable of being successful in the program. However, I knew I'd be somewhat screwed financially if I did so and that gave me the motivation to study hard and change my ways.

Mike

I know what you mean, In fact I stayed in CFI class because I knew if I quit, I wouldn't get the money back, I was seriously thinking of quiting but I couldn't stand the thought of losing all that money, boy I am so glad I stuck with it.

I know of some people that had an emergency, or had a baby, and quit the 90 day for a week or two, then ATP let them right back in

[Van_Hoolio]

Leaving with the intent to come back is different. If you leave and want to take your money and go elsewhere, you will pay a premium for doing so. It isn't overly outrageous, but is pretty steep.

[OU812]

Break out the reading glasses.... Out of Curiosity, why you thinking bout quitting?

http://forums.jetcareers.com/showthread.php?t=15781 (ATP Mistake)
For what its worth, I wouldnt blame you...

[shipwreck]

Thanks for the feedback and the link to the other thread- that's what I needed. At this point I'm just contemplating schools and trying to think about all of the "what if" scenarios.

[v1valarob]

Originally Posted by OU812

Break out the reading glasses.... Out of Curiosity, why you thinking bout quitting?

http://forums.jetcareers.com/showthread.php?t=15781 (ATP Mistake)
For what its worth, I wouldnt blame you...

That thread is over 2 years old now, and little help.

-Rob

[Captain_Bob]

Originally Posted by v1valarob

That thread is over 2 years old now, and little help.

-Rob

Well... it does show that someone can have a bad experience and that the company is not perfect.

Nothing wrong with that.

There is no "best" flight school/training route for everyone.

That's good to know for someone who is starting out and looking for info...

Bob

[v1valarob]

Originally Posted by Captain_Bob

Well... it does show that someone can have a bad experience and that the company is not perfect.

Nothing wrong with that.

There is no "best" flight school/training route for everyone.

That's good to know for someone who is starting out and looking for info...

Bob

True, but a companies policies on how they handle this type of thing may have changed.

-Rob

[Captain_Bob]

True... I see what you mean now...

[Airdale]

I had a 90 day student quit when I was instructing. NO...it wasn't my fault!

He just decided that he didn't like being away from his wife all the time, wasn't very confident of himself in the clouds (even though he was a great pilot, and I tried to convince him of that). He just came in one morning with that look of defeat in his eyes. I was perfectly okay with it, even though I needed the flight time. I helped him out with talking with ATP about his refunds, I made sure he got back what he deserved as per the policy, and I even helped him pack his stuff up to leave that night. I felt bad for him, I really did. He had potential. He ended up losing quiet a bit of money, but in the long run, it was probably better he made that decision then instead of in the middle of 121 ground school.

[Sodbuster]

I knew a guy who quit after cross-countries... you just don't get much back after that. If you have any doubts don't even start. I don't mean to sound like a jerk, but I knew so many guys who were in anguish over wife/kids stuff and other things. The guys who had doubts coming in had the worst time wrestling with the continue/quit decision.

[fly8slep]

Originally Posted by shipwreck

Hi all. Long time lurker- first time poster.

Anyone ever have to quit in the middle of the 90 day? On the ATP website it says they have a "fair discontinuence policy", but does anyone know of someone who has had to quit? Were you or they treated fairly with the amount and timeliness of the refund?

It's possible but not worth it. Personally I have no idea why you would quit ATP for anything other than family problems. By the way that ATP bashing post on the link obove has got to be one of the stupidest things I'hve ever seen on this site. The guy leaves 1st day because the instructor went over the multi supplement. I think people still don't get it, ATP is a self study program what do you expect out of CFIs that 3 months ago were learning to fly themselves. Don't get me wrong though, ATP really works.

[DE727UPS]

"what do you expect out of CFIs that 3 months ago were learning to fly themselves."

Not much. That's why I'm not impressed.

[Airdale]

Originally Posted by DE727UPS

"what do you expect out of CFIs that 3 months ago were learning to fly themselves."

Not much. That's why I'm not impressed.

Have you ever flown with an ATP grad? I would guess not because UPS isn't hiring guys with that low of flight time. So based on that, why are you not impressed? Have any first hand experience with their pilots, or just hear say?

[SmitteyB]

Originally Posted by DE727UPS

"what do you expect out of CFIs that 3 months ago were learning to fly themselves."

Not much. That's why I'm not impressed.

I tend to agree with you. There was an GKY ATP instructor who came in the other day to Skymates and asked me how long approach plates are good for. WTF? You're teaching people?

I believe ATP puts out some good, well rounded pilots-like the kinds of Airdale and one of my favorites, CaptainBob. I also believe you can get by ATP by not studying and not knowing everything you need to. It's not ATP's fault, it's the students fault for not studying.

[fly8slep]

Originally Posted by DE727UPS

"what do you expect out of CFIs that 3 months ago were learning to fly themselves."

Not much. That's why I'm not impressed.

I don't know about book smarts but ATP CFIs are really good pilots. They have to be because they fly IFR xcountries, training flights almost every day, they keep them busy. They are up in the IFR environment almost every day. How many CFIs from the mom and pop places can claim that, not to mention it's all multi time.

[txrevolution]

Originally Posted by SmitteyB

I tend to agree with you. There was an GKY ATP instructor who came in the other day to Skymates and asked me how long approach plates are good for. WTF? You're teaching people?

I believe ATP puts out some good, well rounded pilots-like the kinds of Airdale and one of my favorites, CaptainBob. I also believe you can get by ATP by not studying and not knowing everything you need to. It's not ATP's fault, it's the students fault for not studying.

Did you happen to catch there name? I'm at GKY now and would like to know. PM me if you don't want to make it public.

[stillageek]

Maybe the ATP instructors Jepp subscription ran out. I know when mine did I had forgotten how long NOS plates were good for. ATP gives all students 4 months of Jepp subscriptions....after it runs out we are on our own.....not worth the $$$ when I know I will be at an airline in a few months....so back to NOS.

[SmitteyB]

Originally Posted by stillageek

Maybe the ATP instructors Jepp subscription ran out. I know when mine did I had forgotten how long NOS plates were good for. ATP gives all students 4 months of Jepp subscriptions....after it runs out we are on our own.....not worth the $$$ when I know I will be at an airline in a few months....so back to NOS.

What are you talking about? Subscription or not- they're still good for 56 days. NOS or Jepp.

Those dates on those plates are important.

[DE727UPS]

As far as I know, I've never flown with an ATP grad. Which is kinda weird considering how many there must be out there. Not sure why that is.

I have a problem with ANY CFI who was a PPL 90 days ago teaching the next generation of 90 day wonders. Makes for a lot of inbreeding and a lack of real world experience with ATP CFI's. Has nothing to do with ATP, really, it's just a bad idea in general for someone who is teaching the next generation to have so little seasoning as a pilot.

[fly8slep]

Originally Posted by DE727UPS

I have a problem with ANY CFI who was a PPL 90 days ago teaching the next generation of 90 day wonders. Makes for a lot of inbreeding and a lack of real world experience with ATP CFI's. Has nothing to do with ATP, really, it's just a bad idea in general for someone who is teaching the next generation to have so little seasoning as a pilot.

I'm sorry but you must really have no idea what goes on at ATP.

[Captain_Bob]

Originally Posted by SmitteyB

What are you talking about? Subscription or not- they're still good for 56 days. NOS or Jepp.

Not quite...

Originally Posted by fly8slep

I'm sorry but you must really have no idea what goes on at ATP.

He has a decent idea... him and I have had many spirited discussions over the last few years. I haven't changed his mind much... but at least he does have some idea of what does go on.

The fact is... ATP can certainly be a place where "Professional inbreeding" can occur. Just like the military, the airlines, the large scale academies, the mid-size flight schools, the small scale FBO's. You come in... you are taught... you leave... you teach it the way you were taught to teach it. Simple as that.

But... not quite.

I have always believed that it boils down to the individual. What they brought in... what they learned along the way... and what they ultimately take with them after the program... whether or not they stayed at ATP or went to another flight school to teach.

I didn't teach 90 day guys... I taught ex... or soon to be ex-military guys to fly a recip for the first time in their lives and to help them successfully pass their first over FAA checkride. ATP helped me learn the knoweldge base to do that... gave me a huge amount of my skill base... but... I brought in the majority of my value base.

I was not the instructor my instructor was... in fact... I was not the instructor any of the instructors that I had along the way were. I was 90% who I was before I went into the program... followed by who I became as a result of taking several good things from several different good people I met along the way.

I believe that holds true for most everyone... military, civilian, big flight school, small FBO... You get out of it what you put into it. Ultimately... you are still a large pecentage of who you were BEFORE you went in. That for some people unfortunately... can be a bad thing.

Bob

[SmitteyB]

Originally Posted by Captain_Bob

Not quite...

Elaborate.

[Fly_Unity]

Originally Posted by SmitteyB

What are you talking about? Subscription or not- they're still good for 56 days. NOS or Jepp.

Those dates on those plates are important.

Careful now what you say, your looking like your the one who dont know what your talking about.



I flown with alot of ATP guys, some are good, some are not so good, as far as an ATP instructors, they are all pretty much awesome pilots. My instructor at ATP was a 12 year Instructor and I wouldn't trade anything in the world for the knowledge he gave me.

where Im at, one of the instructors that went to a 4 year flight program was telling me that the back wing only produces upward lift, He said he never heard of it producing negative lift, which is telling me that he didnt have a clue on how Stability works, affect of CG location, stall, etc. I believe that all schools has its good and bad pilots.