Flight instructor Pay at ATP?

[Aero_Engineer]

I have been thinking about doing the 90 day fast tracked program at ATP (Riverside, CA). I have been wondering about this for quite a long time, when you get hired as an instructor after completion of the training, how much can you expect to be making as a full time instructor & is housing still provided for the instructors?
I appreciate all the answers and comments.

[musicmixer]

I did the 90 day and instructed in rivertucky, I recommend it. I don't know the new pay rates, but there is a detailed description of them somewhere in the "ATP price increase" thread.

[Ralgha]

Something along the lines of four bags of flaming dog poo a month. It's already on fire so you can't even do the trick on someone else with it.

Actually the last I knew (via a friend that instructed there) it was $1,000 per month but that was a few years ago. Big bucks to be sure.

[SmitteyB]

You're a slave, to put it simply. They really take advantage of their instructors.

[stillageek]

Instructors are paid a base of $1200 a month. If you stay in the housing they take out $300. There are a ton of ways to easily make more. A CFI doing his job will make $1600+ a month. If you are busting you rear you can make $2000+ and 100 hours a month of flying. Is it great pay? No. But for the 3-4 months you will be instructing it will get you by.

[Captain_Bob]

Originally Posted by SmitteyB

You're a slave, to put it simply. They really take advantage of their instructors.

WTFO??

Certainly not my experience...

Regardless... nobody is forcing anybody to work anywhere...

Originally Posted by Ralgha

Actually the last I knew (via a friend that instructed there) it was $1,000 per month but that was a few years ago. Big bucks to be sure.

Yeah... that's what it used to be...

My largest paycheck when I instructed for them 3 years ago was $1800+... based on what I'm hearing about the new pay structure... it sounds like that would equate to +/-$3k nowadays.

Personally... I got a lot more out of that job than a paycheck:

-Multi, multi, multi...
-Modern and meticulously maintained equipment...
-Contacts from military guys & gals going to the majors.
-I was offered jobs flying 135, flying the pilatus, and flying a KingAir 200
-The opportunity to build my time without having to recruit my own students
-No less than 50 & up to 100+ hours a month (multi).
-Lasting friendships that have continued into the 121 & 135 sector.
-Not working for an FBO that the intructors aren't sure if they are even going to get paid each month...
-The ability to work with others to set up a schedule that worked for me and my family.
-etc.

Bob

[cre8flyer]

They're obviously still paying you, Capt. Bob.

If you'd tone down the evangelical fervour with which you consistently promote ATP you'd be more believable.

[SpiraMirabilis]

He does, or rather did, some contract work for them in the past -- ground instruction and that sort of thing but so have a lot of people. He's not, as far as I am aware, a paid representitive of ATP.

[blee256]

Originally Posted by SmitteyB

You're a slave, to put it simply. They really take advantage of their instructors.

You're not a slave because you can quit whenever you want. However, they do let you know that you are easily replaceable.


Bob, I cant imagine your 3k/month statement is anywhere close to being true.

Working for ATP is a mixed bag. Some good, some bad.

You just have decide for yourself if its worth it. For me it was the path of least resistance. It worked out for me. But its not as rosey as Capt. Bob paints it. There were plenty of times when the instructors would sit around and bitch about working there.

You do make lots of contacts and being an instructor at ATP is like being part of a fraternity. you have that bond because you worked there. You make lots of great friends and keep them for a lifetime. ATP doesnt market this aspect of it, but its huge and I think its the single greatest "perk" of working for ATP.

[Captain_Bob]

Cre8flyer,

I invite you to look at the two posts on an individual basis (Smitty's & mine).

Smitty made a statement based on his thoughts & feelings about the job of a flight instructor for ATP. I made a statement based on my own personal experience. Not one thing I said in that post dealt with marketing propaganda, instead... it was just the facts based on my experience.

"Evangelical" types tend to speak to people's fears and esteem issues in an effort to gain favor.

Which post above most closely resembles that?

I went to ATP 3 years ago... they delivered what the promised to me, and I never felt used and abused. I fully realize that not everyone may have had the same experience... but I'll let them chime in on their own (and many have).

Cre8... I'm not here as ATP's whipping boy to garner favor for the company... I've got too much to worry about to do that (wife, two kids, transferring to new base, studying for upgrade, etc.)... if you've read any number of my posts in the past then you'll understand my position... and what sort of posts cause me to post reply's.

The type of posts that I respond to are typically of the following nature:

1. A genuine request for answers to questions about ATP that I may actually know the answer to... provided things haven't changed drastically in the 3 years since I left. I used to always respond to the PAY questions until recently it became evident that has changed... now all I can say is what I made in the past... and what folks have posted on here are making now. I don't know jack about financing since I paid cash for the program... as a result... I'm never usually in a "financing" related thread. Folks ask about the XC experience... I'll put up a post of what's in my logbook and how much I enjoyed it... etc.
2. Posts that are outright false based on folks' assumptions of how things are at ATP... again... based on my experience.
3. Posts about my personal experience... when the situation warrants it.

I've never... and I emphasize that... never made a post that says that ATP is the right school for everyone. Every person is different, learns different, has a comfort level when training... and quite frankly... everyone has a their own version of the "way it should be done."

Don't mistake what you feel to be "evangelical fervour" with what the real deal is... and that's simply... pride. I put a lot of effort into my flight training... just like everyone else did/does. As a result I have an intense amount of pride in the school that helped me accomplish the goals that I had as a mid-life career changer.

That's it my friend... in a nutshell. I don't have a wanton need to "be more believable" or convince other's of the "rightious path"... instead, I'm just happy telling my personal experience and offering help in this forum and other's when requested.

Bob

[Pilot2087]

Originally Posted by Captain_Bob

WTFO??

Certainly not my experience...

Regardless... nobody is forcing anybody to work anywhere...

Yeah... that's what it used to be...

My largest paycheck when I instructed for them 3 years ago was $1800+... based on what I'm hearing about the new pay structure... it sounds like that would equate to +/-$3k nowadays.

Personally... I got a lot more out of that job than a paycheck:

-Multi, multi, multi...
-Modern and meticulously maintained equipment...
-Contacts from military guys & gals going to the majors.
-I was offered jobs flying 135, flying the pilatus, and flying a KingAir 200
-The opportunity to build my time without having to recruit my own students
-No less than 50 & up to 100+ hours a month (multi).
-Lasting friendships that have continued into the 121 & 135 sector.
-Not working for an FBO that the intructors aren't sure if they are even going to get paid each month...
-The ability to work with others to set up a schedule that worked for me and my family.
-etc.

Bob

I would check your figures, but $2,000 is pretty much max, my Instructors are working their butt off 7 days a week are only making half of your "3000" (Thats with the new pay system)

I went to ATP but now instructing at another school that pays way more then ATP, and I will get a chance to start into 135 stuff that pays way more then a Regional "shiny jet" pilot (or should I say system operator)

[Fly_Unity]

Bob makes it sound so rosy to to work for ATP, well it may be if your goal is to get to an airline in a couple months, but if I know my instructors couldn't wait to get out of ATP.
I just got hired by a 141 school that is a slower pace then ATP, and Im actually enjoy it.
It all depends what you want to do.

btw 3/k a month dont sound right to me, even with the new pay increase. Cut it in half and it will sound about right

[Captain_Bob]

Originally Posted by Pilot2087

I would check your figures, but $2,000 is pretty much max, my Instructors are working their butt off 7 days a week are only making half of your "3000" (Thats with the new pay system)

Originally Posted by Fly_Unity

btw 3/k a month dont sound right to me, even with the new pay increase. Cut it in half and it will sound about right

Originally Posted by blee256

Bob, I cant imagine your 3k/month statement is anywhere close to being true.

Brian, I'm only going off of what I've read on here in the general forums a while back... SIUAv8er posted here that he made $2800 in Feb. even after the housing allowance was deducted...

Originally Posted by blee256

Working for ATP is a mixed bag. Some good, some bad. You just have decide for yourself if its worth it.

That there is the truth...

Bob

[LoadMasterC141]

Bob has been a great advisor for my start in this career. From taking phone calls late at night to hanging out in person, NEVER has he made me feel that ATP is the only or best option; quite the contrary actually. If you ever actually get the chance to meet him, you will see that he is truly one of those people that likes to help others.

Though my route no longer includes ATP's ACPP program, I still plan to get my multi and CFI-I ratings there, as well as instruct, if I get the chance. Sure, I can do the ratings cheaper elsewhere, but it will help ensure I can instruct for ATP.

If you want to make more money at a local FBO, I am sure it is possible. I would much rather make a little less, over much less of a period of time. Then again, it is not really what you make, it is how much you can afford to make. I paid all my debt off and we can live off just my wife's salary if need be, so anything I make instructing at ATP is extra as far as I am concerned. If you waltzed in with lots of debt, a shiny new car, and big spending habits then yeah....it is going to sting.

My instructor at the local flight school bashed ATP to no end when I announced my intentions. But you know what? he has 800TT/35ME after 6 years since he started flying, 2 1/2 yrs instructing. I cannot see any other way to get fast hours instructing, almost all multi, than ATP. Tell me honestly you can nail 100 hrs a month consistently at any other flight school, and how much of it would be multi? How many of you are getting any decent amount of multi time while instructing? Seems to me the senior instructors get to play in the twins, if you are lucky enough to work at a local school that even has one twin. So you are going to end up buying blocks of multi time to get to the coveted minimum 100 hours, if you are headed for a regional.

[mojo6911]

Originally Posted by LoadMasterC141

If you ever actually get the chance to meet him, you will see that he is truly one of those people that likes to help others.

No doubt. He bought me a Whataburger with cheese combo and delivered it. Bob is awesome.

[Cactus_Cutter]

I don’t know what all the complaining is all about. You actually make about $11,000 a month as a near full time MEI. $1,000 in chump change and $10,000 in not having to pay for multi-time. At least that what they told us at my old multi-school…

[Pilot2087]

Originally Posted by Cactus_Cutter

I don’t know what all the complaining is all about. You actually make about $11,000 a month as a near full time MEI. $1,000 in chump change and $10,000 in not having to pay for multi-time. At least that what they told us at my old multi-school…

Then you get to go to a regional airline making $51,000 a month, 1,000 in change, and 50,000 of not having to pay for "turbine" time.

[Doug Taylor]

$51K/month? Where do I sign up?

[subpilot]

If I can't choose the destination then I am not taking any credit for the time. My first flight school gave us that line of bull to supplement the $10/hr payscale for starting CFI's.

[blee256]

Originally Posted by LoadMasterC141

I cannot see any other way to get fast hours instructing, almost all multi, than ATP. Tell me honestly you can nail 100 hrs a month consistently at any other flight school, and how much of it would be multi?

A 100 hour month at ATP isnt uncommon, but it definitely isnt the norm. ATP has about 23 locations. I only know of 1 location where you can instruct at and have a chance of consistently logging 100 hours and that is JAX.

[LoadMasterC141]

Thanks for the correction. You have been there so it is invaluable for someone like me to gain your knowledge.

If you don't mind me asking, what kind of time would you say you averaged while instructing at ATP? What percentage was Multi?

[LAFF]

Does ATP hire their career cfi program grads?

I'm thinking about going for my training (Instrument thru Commercial ME) to a school in Kansas. I'm visiting ATP this summer (RDU and ATL locations) and the school in Kansas during September this year.

Thanks.

-LAFF

[LoadMasterC141]

From another thread here, ATP wont let you do their CFI program unless you plan to work for them as an instructor right now....they are very short.

Anyone wishing to comment on this...flame away in the other thread.

[eastbayk]

Since no one was able to give a definitive answer to the question, here you go. Based on Jan-Feb paystubs (he left after that) we averaged $1600/month. BUT he only worked 3 out of 4 weeks both months. We didn't pay for the housing. When we last figured it (maybe in Jan?) he was averaging 80 hr/month.

k

[blee256]

Originally Posted by LoadMasterC141

If you don't mind me asking, what kind of time would you say you averaged while instructing at ATP? What percentage was Multi?

I left ATP with 1055 hours, of which a little over 700 hour was multi. I taught their private pilot program for a couple months, so I might have more single time than most that instructed there. I would say most instructors about 80-100% of the dual is in a multi. And the non career pilot locations didnt even have a single engine place. Which was the majority of the offices. At RAL i was anywhere between 40-80 hours a month.