Need a bit of advice

[LoadMasterC141]

So I am in a pickle:
I mentioned a while ago that my wife had finally endorsed the sale of our house. Well, I have not had a realtor come in yet, I believe I would not break even on the sale of my house yet, having only had it for a little under two years and considering realtor costs. I have been considering keeping it for a while. It would obviously be easier on our debt load to get rid of it, but we could survive still owning it, and it may be worth it rather than take a big loss.

My wife has been motivated to agree to the sale of the house because she does not want to be away from me for so long while I train and instruct at ATP.

Really though, if I live 2 hours away from GKY, how often would I be able to get home during the ACPP, and then as an instructor? I have told her that I figured I would be lucky to get away at all during the ACPP. During instructing, I told her maybe one day every other weekend. I know I know, man the phones at JAX time, maybe instructing at a different facility for a bit.....all that aside, if I was at GKY, is my notion of how often I would make it home right, or would it be maybe more? less?

[DE727UPS]

Or you could just train at the local FBO, if it's that big of a deal.

[LoadMasterC141]

Your right, I could. That would mean I'd need to keep my current job, and only train part time. Instead of a 3 month ACPP, I'd be looking at years.

I know I know...I KNOW what you would say next, but just remember that you are giving me your perspective as a successful UPS pilot making big bucks. You have noted how much you work lately. Come spend a month in my cubicle with me I dare you.

[DE727UPS]

My point is simply this.

You're stating that going to ATP is causing you a hardship reference your house and wife. I'm simply pointing out that ATP might not be the end all, be all, you think it is when you factor in your house/wife problem. There are other options you could consider (if you have then just say so).

You could quit your job. The local flight school might be willing to work with you at the same level that ATP would (I don't know but you might want to find out). Why any flight school wouldn't entertain the idea of a guy wanting to devote 100% of his life to flying for three months and work with him is beyond me. Does only ATP do this? I don't think so....

As to my job. Yeah, I make big bucks. I remember, quite well, when I made $600/mo and worked six days a week flying Cessna's through the Grand Canyon. The advice I give you, the points I bring up, are the same whether it's the 260K UPS Capt talking, or the $600/mo 172 Capt, no difference.

So, saying my "perspective at JC" is as a successful UPS pilot doesn't really pay due diligence to how I BECAME a successful UPS pilot and what I've learned in the last 30 years of flying airplanes.

[Captain_Bob]

Originally Posted by LoadMasterC141

Come spend a month in my cubicle with me I dare you.

NO! YOu can't make me!!

Seriously... Don brings up some really good points...

If it's going to cause hardship that will be difficult to handle in your personal life... it may not be the right thing at the right time. Your relationship with your wife is FAR more important. You should always keep your options open.

That said...

Living two hours away from GKY and training there is not that big of an issue. A fellow instructor who coincidently was also my SIM partner at XJT lived in Austin with his wife and two little girls while instructing at ATP.

He created a deal with his career pilots that if they agreed to meet every day at 7:00am, do their assignments, and come prepared each day... and work as long as he needed them to... then he would do everything he could to get them two solid days off each week. It worked pretty good. It gave his students the "break" they needed and it allowed him to drive 3 hours home to Austin for up to two and a half days. By the way... two of his students are on the JC board... "Flugsmachine" and "Tram".

Anyway... The point is... if you work it out with your instructor... there may even be days that are only 2-4 hours in length and it would still be an easy commute for you in addition to your days off that you coordinate with your instructor.

I'll be honest with you... the instructors that make you work 7 full days a week need some serious time management skills. Sure there may be a week or two when it's necessary... but not all the time... especially if the students are prepared.

Coincidently... we applied that same set of work ethics and time management to our Training at XJT. We agreed to study our A$$es off while we were there... up late at night going through systems, profiles, call-outs, etc... with the understanding that when we had days off... we didn't even look at the books and just went home to be with our families.

There were lot's of guys who were too stressed to leave the training hotel... and felt they needed every minute of free time to study. Many of those same folks were also the ones that during the classroom work week would get out of class and immediately hit "hooters" to unwind... instead of study.

So... it's all perspective... but if you put your mind to it... it will be possible to make this situation a win-win... "if" you decide to attend ATP.

Bear in mind too that JAX is an unknown time frame. My flight partner spent TWO days in JAX while I spent 4 weeks. Folks don't really spend much longer than that unless it's by choice.

The way things are moving in the industry now... and thus also at ATP... I'm thinking there are much shorter wait times in JAX.

Bob

PS: I told my wife that I probably wouldn't be seeing her at all for 6 weeks while in training at XJT. It was the right thing to do. She completely understood. So... when I was able to make it back on the weekends for the entire training period she was very excited and appreciative. Much better than telling them that you'll do everything you can to make it home as often as you can... and then maybe not being able to...

[LoadMasterC141]

Don,
I am sorry for coming across the way I did. I was really grumpy last night. Work is hell right now, but not an excuse.

I truly do value the opinions of a seasoned professional such as yourself. I do still maintain you would understand my rush to get out of my current job better if you walked in my shoes for a day. Truly, even if I did not want to become a pilot, I would be leaving this job anyway. I understand you have not always been the rich UPS pilot and I know you have paid your dues and certainly can understand my perspective to an extent.

My situation is not really a “Hardship” per se, rather, more of a “challenge”. I have the wonderful benefit of having an extremely supportive wife. We will get through this no matter what. I was just trying to decide which of the two paths I mentioned above would be the best.

I am very aware of your feelings for schools like ATP, so I am quick to go on the offensive. I have done A LOT of research and weighed many options since I started thinking about this last May (I think you commented on my very first post, so you know this).

I just believe ATP is the best option for me. (Deleted- 1 page dissertation on how I arrived at this conclusion. It is moot and I do not feel like discussing that anymore. You have your POV, which weighed into things, and I have my decision.)

Bob,
Thanks for the info. I am not overly concerned with either path I choose, and neither is my wife, but it makes it easier to think I could make it home a bit more than I thought. I had painted this picture that I would not be home but maybe once or twice in a year!

I plan to have a realtor visit to appraise the selling value anyway. I mean, I would only stand to lose a couple grand by my estimates. Maybe she will think I can break even. Who knows. Unless I can break even though, I will retain the house with the notion that it is obvious I can come home more than I thought. Worst case scenario, my wife decides it is not enough and we sell and she moves to GKY. If I could get home HALF as much as your buddy from Austin, that would be plenty.

[SpiraMirabilis]

Have you ever considered converting your home into a rental property if you can't sell it?

[LoadMasterC141]

I have but I am not sure it is a great idea either. It has a pool, hot-tub, and lotsa other bells and whistles that a tenant could easily break from poor maintenance and cost me a fortune in repairs.

[stillageek]

Keeping your job while going to ATP isn't hard. I am doing it now. I started the private program May 5 and was done August 1. I then started the career portion September 1 and will be done 1/2 through March. The biggest slowdown for me was the cross country flying (December 16-February 5). For self paced they would only fly me if I had the whole day off....thus weekends. I took a few extra days off to speed it up. If I didn't have a 3 week slowdown to due instructors getting hired (how dare they!) and the cross country time I could have been done at the end on January. You living 2 hours from GKY, depending on your work schedule, could allow you to keep your house and job. I work 7-4 M-F. I would go to the airport after work 4 days a week and dedicated the all day Sunday (if needed) for training. If you can give the instructor a SET schedule it is quite easy to go almost as fast as 90dayers.

[LoadMasterC141]

Thanks for the advice Geek.

I had somewhat discarded the possibility of doing the self-paced program.

1) I asked about it on here and most, if not all, of the former/current ATP’ers said that while they have the program, ATP is truly designed for the 90 day ACPP. Self-Pacers often fall by the wayside in lieu of a fast paced students needs.

2) I am not sure I would really have the time to dedicate to training AND keep this job. I work 7-5 or later. It would be impossible to drive 2 hours up to GKY in the evening, fly, drive home, and be in any sort of condition to work the next day. Not too mention, the cost of fuel. Also, my job entails 30% travel that is generally compounded into 3 periods a year. I am in the middle of one right now. I have 3 full days at home over the next 3 weeks. That would only leave weekends to be at the school, though I could easily study my tail off on weeknights. I guess I could use my 2 weeks of vacation for X-C time……. Still, does not sound like the best idea to me. It is certainly an option I have given a lot of thought about though. I still like the notion of “immersion” and not having a very taxing career to take any of my attention away from school.

[TechFlyer]

Originally Posted by LoadMasterC141

Thanks for the advice Geek.

Haha, I read loadmaster's post before I read Geeks post. I haven't heard anybody call someone a geek in decades!

Geek, are you saying that you think you can do the program at something similar than a 90 day pace while working full time?

[GAPILOT]

Originally Posted by TechFlyer

Geek, are you saying that you think you can do the program at something similar than a 90 day pace while working full time?

I think he is doing the 10 month program which is obviously not as fast pace as the 90 day.

[GAPILOT]

Also, the problem with a fast pace FBO program is there is no guarantee you will be done when you wanted. I've seen people come to our school and want to fly full time, but it ended up taking much longer than they wanted. ATP stays on the instructors to make sure you get done in the advertised amount of time. Good luck.

[eastbayk]

We ran into the pickle of what to do with the house when we were first considering ATP too. We knew we wanted to move from San Francisco to Jax to do the program but weren't sure is we were ready to give up the house. Here at some of the things we considered:

Selling the house altogether- we would be able to get a good hunk of $ for the property, but it also meant that we would probably never be able to get back into the housing market in SF. Was that worth it?

Renting out the house- We couldn't rent the house for what the morgage payments were, but the combined apartment rent in Jax and the difference between rental income and morgage was still less than what morgage payments were.

Which is going to be greater- The loss you take in selling the house or the cost of making the payments instead of renting (if in your area renting is cheaper than owning)? obviously you are trying to come out of this with the least amount of debt possible so it's important to think about which is going to be the lesser of two evils.

Originally we rented out the house and finally about 9 months later made the decision to sell it. If you do choose to rent out, I absolutly recomend using a property management agency. You will have enough to worry about without having to wonder what the tenents might be doing to your house. Besides, you don't want to be the one to have to deal with 3am phone calls because the water heater broke. Any reputable agency will document the house at move in and then anything that breaks beyond normal wear and tear will be the tenet's responsilbilty. The agency will have an easier time getting it replaced at the tenet's expense than you will.

Good luck with your decision making!

kim

[killbilly]

Originally Posted by LoadMasterC141

So I am in a pickle:
I mentioned a while ago that my wife had finally endorsed the sale of our house. Well, I have not had a realtor come in yet, I believe I would not break even on the sale of my house yet, having only had it for a little under two years and considering realtor costs. I have been considering keeping it for a while. It would obviously be easier on our debt load to get rid of it, but we could survive still owning it, and it may be worth it rather than take a big loss.

I swear you and I must lead parallel lives. I had to reject a buyer this week on my house because they seem to think I'll sell it for $27,000 less than the appraised value.

You might consider doing FSBO on your house, which would save you at LEAST 3% (seller's agent commission) on the sale. That's a fair chunk o' change. You might even save more than that if you find a buyer who is agent-less.

I've thought about it, but my agent and I are close and she's doing the best she can considering my circumstances.

[LoadMasterC141]

I am not prepared to rent the house yet. I actually may have gotten a big break with a realtor who happens to be an aquaintance of ours.

I also keep thinking about the self-paced program. If only I could find a 4-day a week job. That would make it feasible. I do still have my class-A. I guess I could pound the pavement and see if there are any trucking companies willing to work me 4 days a week. Generally, I have found drivers are in such demand that they drag you in and then work you til you quit.

[CaptainChris87]

Originally Posted by DE727UPS

Or you could just train at the local FBO, if it's that big of a deal.

I second that.