Keeping up your proficiency whilst awaiting work?

[flygirl1971]

During the time that instructors are waiting for students, which seems to be at least 2 weeks of required phone jockeying, can you rent the planes just to keep yourself flying? How much per hour, and is that dry or wet?

Do some instructors end up waiting a month or more to start instructing? When it's slow at the school, how bad is "slow?"

[SkyHawg]

From what I understand instructors don't just instruct, they do whatever else needs to be done just like it is in an FBO. Which may be answer the phone, take out the trash, fuel up the planes, study so you can teach, and whatever else needs to be done.

You will get enough hours as an instructor.

[Captain_Bob]

While you are in the office in JAX waiting for a location to open up... you will fly around 10 additional hours in the Seminole (ATP gives that time to all new instructors for free) and countless hours in the office sim (which is waaaayyy better than any other sim at any of the locations). Those flights are to prepare you for your "insurance" ride with the chief pilot. This is known as the "Rich" Ride... Why? Well... becuase the chief pilot's name is... Rich.

ATP does not rent planes on the side to students or instructors. You can rent at the local FBO at CRG if you need or want too... but in my opinion you will be able to stay current with the 10 hours and the SIM available to you 24/7.

Some instructors wait one a few days... others wait longer. There are several reasons for the long or short waits.

Let's say you only want to instruct at 1 specific location. Well... it might take a few weeks for a position to open at that location... then there may be someone senior to you in the office who wants that location as well and takes it... leaving you to wait even longer for the next person to leave. However... typically you will place what locations you wish to go to in priority order when you get hired.

For example... my top 3 were:

1. DFW
2. DFW
3. Anywhere

I ended up with option 3. I took the first thing that came my way so I didn't have to stay in the office... after all you can't log phone time! I ended up in PHX and spend about a month there before I was able to transfer back to my home and family in DFW. It was actually a great experience teaching in a different place. Once you are in the field... then you have seniority over the office guys.

Obviously,if you are flexible about where you want to instruct... you will get out of the office sooner... and build hours quicker.

Slow... how bad is slow? That truly depends on many factors? Are you instructing at a Career Pilot Location, or an Add-On Location? Are you an Add-On instructor or an ACPP instructor? Is it middle of the summer in PHX or dead of winter in Chicago or Trenton? Are the airlines hiring? If so... then ATP is hiring... if ATP is hiring then that means ACPP students are graduating, if there are ACPP students then that usually means the Airlines are hiring, etc...

Regardless... In one years time as an instructor with them, I think my lowest logged month was 65 hours... Highest was well over 100. I was an Add-On instructor.

Bob

[flygirl1971]

AGAIN, GREAT INFO AS ALWAYS!!!!!!!!


Thanks, Capt Bob!

After the visit and all the chatting, and comparing the competition, I've decided on ATP JAX.

(I'm not sure if I mentioned this already, (can't remember what I've pm'ed and posted) but I am planning on going to ATP for my interview in OCTOBER.) I'm thinking of starting in March 07.

At this point, I'm still going to flood the forums and bug people for answers from a "getting prepared for this" standpoint, since at this stage anyway, there isn't a lot that I can think of that would be a deal-breaker.

[Tram]

ATP Jax.. It always makes me cringe when someone picks that.. Not a bad place, just not for... me..

If your going to Jax, bring thick skin..

Add-on instructors live the life.. I was an add-on guy too.. Couldn't imagine being a career pilot instructor..

[SpiraMirabilis]

If your going to Jax, bring thick skin..

Can you elaborate? PM me, if needed.

[BrianNC]

Originally Posted by Tram

Add-on instructors live the life.. I was an add-on guy too..

Do you get to choose that?

[Tram]

Ok, the Jax thick skin comment..

It is the hub of the entire operation.. You are under extreme scrutiny there.. and well.. there's Rich and Ernie.. Rich, now he is a living legend.. I like him alot.. I got along with him great, but.. it took a lil.. getting used to..

Do you get to pick? Not really.. I mean, you can try.. I got hired and was told I would be a career pilot instructor and was all hyped as that is what I wanted.. Got to my location and they were like "ooh, your replacing the add-on guy.. your the new add on guy..." I thought I had just gotten shafted... boy was I wrong.. I had a blast..

[BrianNC]

Why is it so much better in your opinion? Get a lot of hours quick? No single engine?

[Tram]

I think it was all about personal preference..

I was an instuctor before I worked for ATP.. I had done the "from zero to solo" stuff and enjoyed it the first few times, but got tired of it.. I enjoyed flying with people who already knew how to fly and I could help them hone their skills..

My schedule was better in my eyes.. I got new students all the time, did different training all the time.. Kept it exciting..

[BrianNC]

Originally Posted by Tram

I think it was all about personal preference..

I was an instuctor before I worked for ATP.. I had done the "from zero to solo" stuff and enjoyed it the first few times, but got tired of it.. I enjoyed flying with people who already knew how to fly and I could help them hone their skills..

My schedule was better in my eyes.. I got new students all the time, did different training all the time.. Kept it exciting..

Sorry for all the questions, but one more.

Is there a particular location(s) that always seemed to open up quicker or had a higher turnover than others for one waiting to instruct? Do you happen to know if the location at Charlie Brown in Atlanta is a highly sought after location?

And can you wait for that location to come up no matter how long it takes?

[eastbayk]

It really depends on where the instructors who are already at the location are at. There may be 3 of them who get hired at once meaning that they have lots of openings and then there may be a lull of a few months with no turn-over. It's really hard to predict. But any of the bigger sites will have a higher turn over because the instructors are getting more hours quicker and therefore are ready to move up sooner. From what I hear, Atlanta is a fairly popular site, but since they are a bigger operation, they have a higher turnover than say Raleigh, where there are less instructors.

You can stay in the office until a spot opens if you want to. Right now my pilot has been there almost a month waiting for a spot in Jax. We live here, he doesn't really want to go anywhere else. He could be out instructing right now if he wanted to go elsewhere, but that's the choice he made. I know there are a few people at Jax who are close to getting hired, so soon there may be a big rush of new instructors there. I know there are people waiting for spots in TX and Atlanta right now too.


K

[Tram]

BrianNC - No sweat on the questions.. I asked tons of them back when I was trying to make a decision..

As far as one location opening up/having more turnover than others - no.. Not really.. They all act pretty equally.. It's all cyclical (did I spell that right, Bob? )

For instance.. I wanted ATL.. My choices on my dreamsheet went ATL, BWG, PHX.. and when I got into the office and met some of the other "instructors" it was basically "there is no way in hades your getting ATL" as 3 other guys wanted it.. So my list changed.. DAL, BHM, BWG.. I got lucky.. One of the guys ahead of me left.. Two of the other guys didn't have his company checkout out of the way and I lucked out to be first in my "class" to take it..

My class came in and they changed the way it worked.. It used to be.. Come in, work the phones, when a location is ready to come open, flight training and checkride.. When I got there.. it was come in, flight training, checkride, work the phones - so you were ready to roll at a moments notice..

I was sittin on the phones one day and heard an instructor in ATL was leavin.. Krista or was it Christa, anyway, came out of her office one day and walked over to another instructor - asked him if he wanted ATL.. "I haven't had a checkride yet... " was his answer.. she came over to me and asked "Would you be willing to go to ATL?" I was thrilled.. I was gone in 2 days..

You can as eastbayk said, fill your wish list out to say ATL, ATL, ATL and sit until it opens up.. If you chose to do that, you can work in dispatch.. which is better than being a phone jockey.. However, it can catch you, in my case, a dispatcher who had been there longer than me, didn't get ATL because he wasn't ready to go, however, he did eventually got ATL and we formed a pretty tight friendship..

The single man, or low man locations tend to have slow turnovers, just because they don't fly as much and there are less people to replace.. Example.. I was actually at the BHM location with a student of mine letting him meet the examiner before the checkride, when Coach K called me for the phone interview.. The instructor at BHM was there before and after I left ATP.. I spend June to November of 05' with ATP in ATL..

The larger the location, the more flying you will do, simply because it's a larger location which translates into more students.. I averaged something like 80 hours a month with several months over 100 hours a month..

As an instructor at ATP, that is your life.. You have zero scheduled off days.. Unless you ask for them in advance.. I lived close to ATL so my pops was able to fly in and pick me up and I'd get to go home quite often - would never have been able to do that as a career guy..

Career guys are given infants, they must rear and eventually send out into the world..

Add on guys are given step children you only keep on the weekends..

It's not quite like that, but it's a good analogy..

All in all, I had a great time with ATP.. Sometimes I get on here and rough them up a bit, but they need it..

Would I go back and do it again now? I would like to think no.. but I find myself having fond memories all the time..

I had a blast and wouldn't give what I did out in FTY/ATL for much.. won't say anything, because I would trade it for a few things..

[BobDDuck]

Do they no longer do the .8 every 2 weeks to stay current?

Other stuff...

Not everybody likes JAX. It is crazy and some people like that and some don't. I wasn't a fan. That's not to say that some people don't do great there.

Add ons vs Career pilots. Tram said it pretty well. Career pilots are your babys. They bust a ride, you feel bad. They come back from CFI school and you are proud of them. Add ons come in for two or three days and you impart what you can and hope they are ready to go for the ride. I started off doign career pilots and after I pushed 8 through the add on guy left and I sort of took it over. At some locations everybody chips in to do add ons if it gets busy. The benefit of add ons is you are getting exposed to all sorts of people's flying experience (I loved flying with F16 guys) but on the other hand you get some not so good ones. Also doing add ons means you are mostly just going out and doing maneuvers where as career students allow you to fly interesting XC flights. Career pilots can be (somewhat) flexibly scheduled. Add ons show up and you best be there. Flight time amounts vary whether you are flying add ons or career students. You can rack up a whole lot of hours doing career students instrument flying, but you also sit around in the sim a whole bunch (80 hours at a time if you have 2 career students). Add on guys don't have to do any sim but may have a sparser schedule.

Clear as mud?

[Tram]

Originally Posted by BobDDuck

The benefit of add ons is you are getting exposed to all sorts of people's flying experience (I loved flying with F16 guys) but on the other hand you get some not so good ones.

I only flew with 2 F-16 guys and they were pretty rough sticks.. I guess the FlyByWire stuff didn't help them any..

Worse guy I ever flew with.. Navy P-3 guy.. He was soo bad, the examiner didn't believe he flew in the Navy... Go figure...