Where to go after building hours

djnorton · April 16th, 2006, 23:32

Now if i went to ATP and instructed there for awhile, would i nessacarly have to go to Regionals? could i go to Cargo jets like UPS or fedex, or more importantly list some hours for me to compare to get to companys that pay better than regionals.

JEP · April 16th, 2006, 23:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by djnorton

Now if i went to ATP and instructed there for awhile, would i nessacarly have to go to Regionals? could i go to Cargo jets like UPS or fedex, or more importantly list some hours for me to compare to get to companys that pay better than regionals.

Not to be a dink, but the only job you will get at UPS right after instructing is working loading and unloading trucks.

The hours req'd at UPS and Fedex are going to be much higher than the 'normal' CFI would have coming out of ATP. They will want Turbine PIC and a letter of rec. from a current pilot.

Search the Freight Dog forums and you may find some info on that.

Oh Yeah,.......Welcome to JC !

Swissair · April 16th, 2006, 23:52

UPS or Fedex are JUST as hard to get on with as the Legacy carriers (when they are hiring). On top of that, they REQUIRE at least 1000 PIC hours of turbine time which there is no realy way to get at ATP.
There are smaller cargo operations such as Empire or Ameriflight that have minimums simmilar to the regionals but the pay is comparable.

Simply put, there is no fast track to higher pay or prestegious carriers. You can instruct at ATP for 10 years and rack up 10,000 hours PIC yet you would Still be ineligible for virtually any major, cargo or PAX.

Besides, even Mesa (and probably even Gulfstream

) pays more per month, with fewer hours flying than instructing at ATP does.

djnorton · April 16th, 2006, 23:54

So what would be the best route after instructing?

Swissair · April 17th, 2006, 00:05

Instruct until you meat the minimums of regionals (this is what ATP tries to prepare you for). Once you meet mins of regionals (~600/100 for Expressjet and ASA, ~1000/200 for the rest) start filling out applications and resumes and wait for a call.
Succeed in the interview and accept the job (a simplification but thats the basic idea).
After a few years at a regional you will upgrade (hopefully) and built PIC time until you meet the mins of the majors (you will need a lot more than mins to actually get a job with them) and start the applying raound again.
Good Luck!

djnorton · April 17th, 2006, 00:30

Now if i go to ATP it will be without a degree, i cant afford both right now, but hopefully a while after ill be able to get a degree.

Swissair · April 17th, 2006, 03:21

If you are just graduating from High SChool and are 18 I STRONGLY recommend that you get a degree; at least a 2 year but perhaps even think about a 4 year. Ultimately a degree will give you so many more options and even open up new avenues within flying itself.
A degree at a community college doesn;t have to be prohibitively expensive. On top of that, some community colleges have Flight programs that qualify oyu for financial aid as well.
Lane Community College in Eugene, Oregon comes to mind as one such school.
Look around, you'll be amazed as to how many options there are!

djnorton · April 17th, 2006, 12:25

I wouldnt mind getting a degree, its just alot of money, at a local 2 year college its like 19K for an associates.

Adam2006 · April 17th, 2006, 12:44

Fill out a FAFSA.

SIUav8er · April 17th, 2006, 15:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by djnorton

I wouldnt mind getting a degree, its just alot of money, at a local 2 year college its like 19K for an associates.

Well, your looking at droping 45 grand with ATP! Money cant be THAT big a problem! besides, your basically worthless in any job market without at least a Bachelors degree.

Captain_Bob · April 17th, 2006, 16:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIUav8er

...your basically worthless in any job market without at least a Bachelors degree.

Tell that to Bill Gates...

http://www.forbes.com/2000/06/29/feat.html

djnorton · April 17th, 2006, 16:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIUav8er

Well, your looking at droping 45 grand with ATP! Money cant be THAT big a problem! besides, your basically worthless in any job market without at least a Bachelors degree.

Well yes im willing to put that much in, i have 23K saved. so i can get a college associates for free, then have like 4 or 5K dedicated to flight school.

Just tryin to get as much info as possiable, i do suppose a degree is a good choice no matter what i do in life.

toughnuts · April 17th, 2006, 18:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by djnorton

I wouldnt mind getting a degree, its just alot of money, at a local 2 year college its like 19K for an associates.

Which community college is that?!?!?!

ETAV8R · April 17th, 2006, 18:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by djnorton

I wouldnt mind getting a degree, its just alot of money, at a local 2 year college its like 19K for an associates.

That is insane!!!
I paid about 5-6k for my AA and a radiology program at a community college here in socal. They also have an A&P and pilot programs too. Huge A&P program. My BS cost me about the same as my AA/radiology cert.
Don't let your wallet get raped!

Tram · April 18th, 2006, 00:21

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the simple fact of the matter is..

You will never.. yes.. never.. work for a Legacy carrier without a degree... FedEx, UPS, Southwest, insert your carrier of choice here.. You simply won't work there...

JBUCREW · April 18th, 2006, 11:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by djnorton

Now if i went to ATP and instructed there for awhile, would i nessacarly have to go to Regionals? could i go to Cargo jets like UPS or fedex, or more importantly list some hours for me to compare to get to companys that pay better than regionals.

In China they are looking for low time pilots...

Airdale · April 18th, 2006, 15:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tram

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the simple fact of the matter is..

You will never.. yes.. never.. work for a Legacy carrier without a degree... FedEx, UPS, Southwest, insert your carrier of choice here.. You simply won't work there...

I know quite a few people flying for majors that do not have a degree. Military service is nearly equivilant. One of my good friends is a Capt. for Continental, served 4 years in the Navy but not as a pilot, no degree. I think a degree is a great idea, and I'm certaily getting mine for nearly nothing from my military benefits. I think college is over rated though. A waste of money in my opinion for what you actually learn. You pay a ton of money for a certificate. I know people who've graduated with BA degrees in business and other various areas that are $100k in debt and can't find a job. I read its a growing problem, college prices are going up, graduates aren't getting hired in their field of choice and are stuck with thousands in debt. All a degree shows is that you are trainable and not a complete moron, although I do know a lot of complete morons with degrees. Honorable military service shows trainability too.

Tram · April 18th, 2006, 19:15

Welp, you proved me wrong..

Don't get a degree, best of luck you you..

NYer914 · April 18th, 2006, 19:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airdale

I know quite a few people flying for majors that do not have a degree. Military service is nearly equivilant. One of my good friends is a Capt. for Continental, served 4 years in the Navy but not as a pilot, no degree. I think a degree is a great idea, and I'm certaily getting mine for nearly nothing from my military benefits. I think college is over rated though. A waste of money in my opinion for what you actually learn. You pay a ton of money for a certificate. I know people who've graduated with BA degrees in business and other various areas that are $100k in debt and can't find a job. I read its a growing problem, college prices are going up, graduates aren't getting hired in their field of choice and are stuck with thousands in debt. All a degree shows is that you are trainable and not a complete moron, although I do know a lot of complete morons with degrees. Honorable military service shows trainability too.

Yeah, he probably got hired in the 80's...you won't get a major job NOW without a college degree. It does not show how smart you are, it shows that you are trainable...that's why it is so important.

Swissair · April 18th, 2006, 20:37

You wont get a job at a major these days without a college degree. Think ab out it... EVERYONE has a degree. More people than ever have college degree's and these days the hiring process at the majors is so competitive that they can throw out every canidate w/o college and still have a huge pool to choose from.
Obviously there will always be the exception, but don't actively TRY to be that excveption.

casey · April 18th, 2006, 21:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYer914

Yeah, he probably got hired in the 80's...you won't get a major job NOW without a college degree. It does not show how smart you are, it shows that you are trainable...that's why it is so important.

...because a history of 121 training and upgrade programs doesnt reflect on trainability.

Tram · April 19th, 2006, 00:19

A history of 121 training does show trainability..

However.. this day and age, you show up without a degree chances are, it won't go well for the applicant..

As competitive as this business is, it's best to have every box checked you can... A degree is a box that needs to be checked..

I know FedEx won't even interview without a degree.. They won't even take a resume..

April 16th, 2006, 23:32	#1
djnorton Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Colorado Posts: 38	Where to go after building hours Now if i went to ATP and instructed there for awhile, would i nessacarly have to go to Regionals? could i go to Cargo jets like UPS or fedex, or more importantly list some hours for me to compare to get to companys that pay better than regionals.

April 17th, 2006, 12:44	#9
Adam2006 Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Socal Posts: 214	Fill out a FAFSA. __________________ adam

April 18th, 2006, 00:21	#15
Tram Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: KMSL Posts: 1,845	Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the simple fact of the matter is.. You will never.. yes.. never.. work for a Legacy carrier without a degree... FedEx, UPS, Southwest, insert your carrier of choice here.. You simply won't work there... __________________ I flew the 757-200 sim at NATCO DANGIT...ON ONE ENGINE OUT OF EAGLE COLORADO AND THEN CIRCUMNAVIGATED A THUNDERSTORM!!! And what do these PAX do?! Glare at me..

April 18th, 2006, 19:15	#18
Tram Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: KMSL Posts: 1,845	Welp, you proved me wrong.. Don't get a degree, best of luck you you.. __________________ I flew the 757-200 sim at NATCO DANGIT...ON ONE ENGINE OUT OF EAGLE COLORADO AND THEN CIRCUMNAVIGATED A THUNDERSTORM!!! And what do these PAX do?! Glare at me..

April 19th, 2006, 00:19	#22
Tram Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: KMSL Posts: 1,845	A history of 121 training does show trainability.. However.. this day and age, you show up without a degree chances are, it won't go well for the applicant.. As competitive as this business is, it's best to have every box checked you can... A degree is a box that needs to be checked.. I know FedEx won't even interview without a degree.. They won't even take a resume.. __________________ I flew the 757-200 sim at NATCO DANGIT...ON ONE ENGINE OUT OF EAGLE COLORADO AND THEN CIRCUMNAVIGATED A THUNDERSTORM!!! And what do these PAX do?! Glare at me..

April 16th, 2006, 23:52	#3
Swissair Newbie Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 16	UPS or Fedex are JUST as hard to get on with as the Legacy carriers (when they are hiring). On top of that, they REQUIRE at least 1000 PIC hours of turbine time which there is no realy way to get at ATP. There are smaller cargo operations such as Empire or Ameriflight that have minimums simmilar to the regionals but the pay is comparable. Simply put, there is no fast track to higher pay or prestegious carriers. You can instruct at ATP for 10 years and rack up 10,000 hours PIC yet you would Still be ineligible for virtually any major, cargo or PAX. Besides, even Mesa (and probably even Gulfstream ) pays more per month, with fewer hours flying than instructing at ATP does.

April 16th, 2006, 23:54	#4
djnorton Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Colorado Posts: 38	So what would be the best route after instructing?

April 17th, 2006, 00:05	#5
Swissair Newbie Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 16	Instruct until you meat the minimums of regionals (this is what ATP tries to prepare you for). Once you meet mins of regionals (~600/100 for Expressjet and ASA, ~1000/200 for the rest) start filling out applications and resumes and wait for a call. Succeed in the interview and accept the job (a simplification but thats the basic idea). After a few years at a regional you will upgrade (hopefully) and built PIC time until you meet the mins of the majors (you will need a lot more than mins to actually get a job with them) and start the applying raound again. Good Luck!

April 17th, 2006, 00:30	#6
djnorton Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Colorado Posts: 38	Now if i go to ATP it will be without a degree, i cant afford both right now, but hopefully a while after ill be able to get a degree.

April 17th, 2006, 03:21	#7
Swissair Newbie Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 16	If you are just graduating from High SChool and are 18 I STRONGLY recommend that you get a degree; at least a 2 year but perhaps even think about a 4 year. Ultimately a degree will give you so many more options and even open up new avenues within flying itself. A degree at a community college doesn;t have to be prohibitively expensive. On top of that, some community colleges have Flight programs that qualify oyu for financial aid as well. Lane Community College in Eugene, Oregon comes to mind as one such school. Look around, you'll be amazed as to how many options there are!

April 17th, 2006, 12:25	#8
djnorton Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Colorado Posts: 38	I wouldnt mind getting a degree, its just alot of money, at a local 2 year college its like 19K for an associates.

April 18th, 2006, 20:37	#20
Swissair Newbie Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 16	You wont get a job at a major these days without a college degree. Think ab out it... EVERYONE has a degree. More people than ever have college degree's and these days the hiring process at the majors is so competitive that they can throw out every canidate w/o college and still have a huge pool to choose from. Obviously there will always be the exception, but don't actively TRY to be that excveption.

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