Instructing for ATP (Former Instructor)

GaTechKid · January 21st, 2006, 20:16

Here's my thoughts on my time as an ATP instructor. Perhaps other instructors will post their thoughts on if it was worth the stress. I'll just paste what I wrote in another thread:

I instructed for ATP in Chicago from May '05 - Dec '05 and I disagree with you. Working for ATP was indeed stressful and living in Chicago off $1200 a month was difficult but working conditions weren't "horrible" and I certainly didn't live or work "like a dog." Generally, the busiest times were the last 2-3 weeks of each summer month which were filled with 12-14 hour days but I was flying 4-8 hours each day. The rest of the time I usually had 2-3 days off a week to go visit the fiancee in another state. I had a steady supply of customers while working there. I flew a meager 25 hours in September yet I still made $1200. I instructed in well-maintained aircraft. Things broke regularly and a call to maintenance almost always ended with "We'll overnight you the part and have Lumanair install it tomorrow morning." I'm sure HQ monitored my pass rate and I was definately worried about it while working there, however I ran the entire location with the other instructor our way. No direct day-by-day supervision/scrutiny by a boss or chief pilot. With my career students and within their availability I was able to set my own hours. I'm sure it's a great pleasure to have a student from day one in their flying career, but I never had to take on the liability of signing off a student pilot. The instruction I provided was multi/instrument which was always challenging, progressive, and fun. All but 2-3 locations have housing provided for instructors for $200/month. Sure you have to share a room but it's fully furnished with washer/dryer and that includes all utilities.

Instructing for ATP is by no means a career in and of itself but it certainly helped to launch mine. Most of the bitching you hear from ATP instructors is exaggeration and venting from the stress of getting people you've never met ready for checkrides in 2-4 days. Personally I think it's amazing that amount of freedom and trust ATP puts into their instructors to run most of their locations.

UND_Flyer · January 21st, 2006, 20:57

GaTechKid,

Thanks for your post, I appreciate it! I'm considering going back to ATP, but this time as an instructor after I graduate from UND in May. The only thing that sucks is the pay and sometimes long hours, but you get to fly great equipment and you can rack up a pretty good amount of hours in a very little time. I'm definitely going to keep ATP in mind and I'll be sending my resume to Jim in about 2 months or so. We'll see what happens...

Thanks!

nkoenig · January 21st, 2006, 22:00

nice avatar!

bob loblaw · January 21st, 2006, 23:02

I worked for ATP for one month and was fired after having a disagreement with Ernie Strange. In my time at ATP, I found that most other instructors there at the Jacksonville location were basically walking on eggshells and afraid to voice an opinion on anything. More than one instructor said that they would do whatever they can to instruct at a location other than Jacksonville and as far away from the corporate office. To them, avoiding Ernie and Erol was a must. I stood up for what I knew was right even though I knew full well that my job there was in jeopardy.

My question to anyone who can answer it is this. If ATP is so great, why did more than one instructor say that they want any location, as long as it is far away from Jacksonville? I know one instructor personally, whom I will not name told me flat out that I was nuts for wanting to stay in Jacksonville. I wanted to work at the first location I could get, but other people had an agenda.

If you can keep your opinions to yourself and say yes sir to Ernie, even when he is dead wrong about a subject, you will do well at ATP. In my time there, I noticed that the general thinking at ATP was if you have a problem at or with ATP, your chances of getting a job at an airline is greatly reduced. I am sure this is not the case, as I have started a better CFI job in PA. There is no multi time, but that is OK. There is life after ATP and ATP is not better than sliced bread.

Gizmo · January 21st, 2006, 23:20

Bob,

Who are these two guys, Ernie and Erol?

BobDDuck · January 22nd, 2006, 00:34

Bob, I'm sorry it didn't work out well for you. When I was in the office I was not offered a spot in JAX and had I been I probably would have turned it down for the very reasons you mention. Every location does have it's problems and believe it or not, there are people at other locations that think they have as much control over your job as the managment does in JAX. It is the nature of the business. As an instructor for ATP you are highly replacable. If you do keep your head down you will do just fine. However, there are sometimes situations where you as the "PIC" (well, the instructor anyways) have to say something or do something that clashes with what the office wants. Sometimes these things are survivable and sometimes they are not. In 10 months of instructing I ran into three problems that were serious enough for me to end up having to do a carpet dance over the phone. In two cases I was dead right and in one of those two managment sided with me and gave me the support I needed to correct the problem. In the other one it ended in something of a draw, but I had been there long enough at that point that I had a little wampum in the bank and that probably saved me. The third instance was something stupid I did and I got out of it due to ignorance. Lucky? Maybe. Is ATP a fun place to instruct (at any location)? Not always. It has it's moments, but the sheer amount of time that an instructor is expected to put in can make it hard. It seems that most instructors are bailing after 5 months and the RJ program. This is really a whole other issue, but haveing a set end date most likely helps to make it easier. Anyway you look at it, it is definatly worth it for the multi time.

GaTechKid · January 22nd, 2006, 00:45

Quote:

To them, avoiding Ernie and Erol was a must.

Avoiding Errol?!? Those instructors you were with must have had a bad case of self-induced paranoia cuz Errol was nothing but a pleasure to work for. I've never seen man over 40 have as much energy as he does. Before you left the "call center" he gave you his personal home and cell # and encouraged you to call him at any time if something needed to be addressed. Case in point: ATP is adamant about NOT exceeding a customer's purchased training block. I accidentally violated this on my fourth/fifth student. I immediately called Errol directly and explained the situation. He told me to not worry about and he would take care of it. Never heard anything about it afterwards.

aloft · January 22nd, 2006, 05:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobDDuck

It seems that most instructors are bailing after 5 months and the RJ program. This is really a whole other issue, but haveing a set end date most likely helps to make it easier.

ATP instructors get the RJ course? Free?

Set end date?

Captain_Bob · January 22nd, 2006, 10:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by aloft

ATP instructors get the RJ course? Free?

Um... No.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aloft

Set end date?

I think he's suggesting that successful completion of the RJ course means that (if airline agreements are still in place for potential interviews, and said interview/s are successful) you won't be there much longer. So the "Set end date" is in ones own mind... A hurdle to overcome and work towards... a goal.

I was just up talking with some of the DFW instructors the other day and they were talking similiarly. "Yeah, I may just stay past 500 hours (approx 5 months)... and keep building multi-time." or "I'd like to be more competetive so I'll stay here a bit longer." I was kind of laughing... because when I was an instructor... there was no RJ course... no (decent) regionals were hiring under 1500/200... and it felt like there was no end in sight.

That being said... I wouldn't have changed my experience for the world. ATP was a great place to work for me... for a lot of the same reasons Bob mentioned above. But... we just didn't have the "5 month/RJ course goal" that most have now. It's not a bad thing per se... just a different 121 hiring environment than when I went worked there.

Bob

PS: I have to agree with Bob's statement regarding Errol. What a class act! From what I saw, he treated everyone with respect... with the noteable exception of getting candy thrown at the back of your head while you are on the phones...

Seriously... nice guy. I went shopping with him to get Christmas Poinsetta's for the office one day... he took me out to eat and told me his life story... super great guy.

...and as far as JAX goes... in my opinion, coming from corporate background myself, any business I have worked in where I was based in the corporate HQ's was more stressful that those than those where I was based hundreds or thousands of miles away from HQ. ATP is no exception.

Captain_Bob · January 22nd, 2006, 11:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob loblaw

My question to anyone who can answer it is this. If ATP is so great, why did more than one instructor say that they want any location, as long as it is far away from Jacksonville?

...because there are 24 other great locations available to instruct at that are not HQ. (see my statment above at the end of that post regarding stress at HQ's.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob loblaw

There is life after ATP

Agreed... absolutely... 100%.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob loblaw

and ATP is not better than sliced bread.

Awww C'mon... It's a close second...

Quote:

Originally Posted by UND flyer

The only thing that sucks is the pay and sometimes long hours, but you get to fly great equipment and you can rack up a pretty good amount of hours in a very little time.

Agreed... http://jetcareers.com/forums/showthr...217#post306217

Bob

smokey1 · January 22nd, 2006, 18:15

I would have to agree with those that say Erol was a joy to work with, because he was. If you are getting into disagreements with Erol, you are probably doing something you weren't supposed to do. However, I worked at a location that was far away from HQ and it was great until they decided to give us an "office manager"... When we got him it was time for me to go.

Smoke

BobDDuck · January 22nd, 2006, 22:55

Hey Smokey, how's the little one? Probably not that little anymore I would guess.

Ethan

John2375 · January 23rd, 2006, 10:59

I'm definitley considering doing the ATP CFI/II/MEI course and trying to get on w/their Lakeland, FL location since that's the closest one to me..
What are the odds of being hired as a CFI if doing their program? Good? Pretty good? Only good if you're really impress them?
I think I'm going to try to do some banner towing over the summer so I'd probably become a CFI w/approx 800 hours (maybe 1000 but let's not get that optimistic...let's say 7-800 total time)
How long would it likely take to have those ever-precious Part 135 IFR minimums??

blee256 · January 24th, 2006, 00:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by John2375

I'm definitley considering doing the ATP CFI/II/MEI course and trying to get on w/their Lakeland, FL location since that's the closest one to me..
What are the odds of being hired as a CFI if doing their program? Good? Pretty good? Only good if you're really impress them?
I think I'm going to try to do some banner towing over the summer so I'd probably become a CFI w/approx 800 hours (maybe 1000 but let's not get that optimistic...let's say 7-800 total time)
How long would it likely take to have those ever-precious Part 135 IFR minimums??

I know about a year ago, so many people were leaving for the airlines so quickly they were in desperate need of instructors. If thats still the case, I would recommend doing the CFI program in JAX and show up prepared, and I would make it known that you would love the oppportunity to instruct there when you are done with the program. good luck

greezergriff7 · January 24th, 2006, 22:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by smokey1

I worked at a location that was far away from HQ and it was great until they decided to give us an "office manager"... When we got him it was time for me to go.

Smoke

somebody had to take out the trash and, I quote, "babysit the instructors"..

meyers9163 · January 24th, 2006, 22:43

So say you dont want to work for an Expressjet or PSA, or Eagle so therefore you want to gain hours instructing would ATP be a place where someone would want to stick around to gain hours to meet the mins of an AWAC or a Skywest? Especially if you have a high internal reference from either of those two companies and you just want to log hours so they can walk in a resume. Of course undersanding there are no guarantees but yet sticking around longer and gaining hours you also gain experience and can learn even more. Just wondering if ATP would be a place someone would want to stay around to get say 1000TT? (roughly how many hours do your instructors average, i know it changes but in general)..... Thank you!

UND_Flyer · January 24th, 2006, 22:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by meyers9163

So say you dont want to work for an Expressjet or PSA, or Eagle so therefore you want to gain hours instructing would ATP be a place where someone would want to stick around to gain hours to meet the mins of an AWAC or a Skywest? Especially if you have a high internal reference from either of those two companies and you just want to log hours so they can walk in a resume. Of course undersanding there are no guarantees but yet sticking around longer and gaining hours you also gain experience and can learn even more. Just wondering if ATP would be a place someone would want to stay around to get say 1000TT? (roughly how many hours do your instructors average, i know it changes but in general)..... Thank you!

Sure, you can work for ATP as long as you want. I know a few ATP instructors that stuck around to meet mins. for SkyWest, because that's the company they want to work for. Too bad SkyWest isn't hiring right now....

Quote:

roughly how many hours do your instructors average, i know it changes but in general

I think it depends on location, but I heard you can get between 100-120hrs/month in JAX!

blee256 · January 25th, 2006, 01:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by UND_Flyer

I think it depends on location, but I heard you can get between 100-120hrs/month in JAX!

Or like 5 to 10 in TTN

Nick · January 25th, 2006, 10:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by blee256

Or like 5 to 10 in TTN

Not last week! I don't instruct there but 5 - 10 hours a month? No way.

GaTechKid · January 25th, 2006, 17:45

Depends on the weather and/or schedule. I only flew ~25 hours in Sept. due to a light schedule and the instructor up in Chicago only flew 6 hours in the first half of January due to the weather.

tapcon · January 25th, 2006, 22:30

As a former instructor I just want to add my 2 cents. If you are 121 bound, I would have to say that ATP is the place to instruct. There's no argument, the multi time and the way the company is structured, you will definately be flyining in the right seat for Express Jet, Eagle or what other regional that they have an agremment with in a short amount of time. HOWEVER, it comes wih a big price tag: VERY little money (especially if you assigned to a small location), keep your mouth shut (even if you're right), get dangled with FMS certification and RJ sim training and other programs at a minimally reduced price and of course having to kiss but and play secretary in the pit (you'll find out what this means if you instruct). At the end of the day, they do get their instructors flying jets pretty quickly. After a few months at ATP as an instructor, I decided that it wasn't for me. I also quickly realized that I was not 121 material. I am grateful for ATP showing me how much I wouldn't like flying 121. The only advice that I have is to just make sure that you REALLY want to fly in a 121 environment before you jump into the right seat of ATPs Seminoles. Eventhough it took a little bit longer, I love my 135 job and I have to say...2 types and making $120K to go to exotic locations, I am SO happy that I didn't go to the regionals. Don't know if this helped, but I wish you all the best of luck.

BrianNC · January 28th, 2006, 00:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by tapcon

As a former instructor I just want to add my 2 cents. If you are 121 bound, I would have to say that ATP is the place to instruct. There's no argument, the multi time and the way the company is structured, you will definately be flyining in the right seat for Express Jet, Eagle or what other regional that they have an agremment with in a short amount of time. HOWEVER, it comes wih a big price tag: VERY little money (especially if you assigned to a small location), keep your mouth shut (even if you're right), get dangled with FMS certification and RJ sim training and other programs at a minimally reduced price and of course having to kiss but and play secretary in the pit (you'll find out what this means if you instruct). At the end of the day, they do get their instructors flying jets pretty quickly. After a few months at ATP as an instructor, I decided that it wasn't for me. I also quickly realized that I was not 121 material. I am grateful for ATP showing me how much I wouldn't like flying 121. The only advice that I have is to just make sure that you REALLY want to fly in a 121 environment before you jump into the right seat of ATPs Seminoles. Eventhough it took a little bit longer, I love my 135 job and I have to say...2 types and making $120K to go to exotic locations, I am SO happy that I didn't go to the regionals. Don't know if this helped, but I wish you all the best of luck.

What kind of gig did you get making that kind of money? And what do you fly?

Tram · January 28th, 2006, 01:23

Hmm.. what is it like to work for ATP..

"Hi, welcome to our company... you will work from the time the work needs to start until the work is finished, whatever it takes..."

I worked... "like a dog.." 14+ hour days were nothing unusual.. However, flying 100 or more hours a month wasn't unusual either..

However, I had a blast..

"If ATP is so great, why did more than one instructor say that they want any location, as long as it is far away from Jacksonville? I know one instructor personally, whom I will not name told me flat out that I was nuts for wanting to stay in Jacksonville."

Ehh.. you were nuts for wanting Jax..

Why did most people not want Jax? Mainly because Jax is the headquarters.. You are under constant scrutiny by the big wigs.. No one likes having the big wigs looking over their should in anything.. I could have easily been the guy who told you I would work at any location but Jax.. CRG has this.. aura about it..

I wanted to get out of Jax as fast as me feets would scoot me.. Chances are though, if you didn't like ATP as an instructor, your gonna hate the airlines.. The thing ATP has going for them and against the instructors is - we were all 1000% replaceable - tomorrow.. If you screwed up alot, you were gone.. If they didn't like you, you were gone.. It is their company and they can do with it what they like..

I loved ATP.. I got everything I wanted out of them and they got what they wanted out of me.. I served them well and they served me well..

I made life long friends, racked the crap out of some multi-time, had a blast and have the video's to prove it..

stultus · January 28th, 2006, 12:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob loblaw

To them, avoiding Ernie and Erol was a must.

I don't know Ernie, but Errol is one of the kindest men I've ever met. He was great to work with, always had time to talk and was very approachable and understanding. I can't imagine how bad you'd have to screw up to want to avoid him!

Instructing for ATP is what you make of it--I had a lot of fun and did not have one problem with mgmt during my tenure. Instructing at ATP is great if you are responsible and willing to work hard. If you're not, forget it--you'll be miserable. The pay will not be good, but you'll get a lot of great experience and multi time quickly.

jbp1 · January 28th, 2006, 20:38

Just to clarify the whole Ernie and Errol thing...

Ernie is a nice guy, as long as you dont consistently prove yourself to be an idiot. He will go out of his way to help you out, as long as you dont try to turn things into a pissing match with him. If Ernie doesnt like you, its probably for a good reason. The man has A LOT of aviation experience and isnt just a pilot examiner who has never been around the 121 community. You have to show Ernie that you know what you are doing and give him the respect that he deserves and he will respect you.

Errol is possibly the nicest guy I have ever met. I worked for him for almost 5 years in the HQ. Those of you that know who I am know that I wont BS about this just to protect ATP's name and reputation. I have personally seen Errol go out of his way unneccessarily to help out instructors and students numerous times, and at the same time I have seen Errol drop the hammer on some people that needed to go. So for someone who worked for ATP for a VERY SHORT TIME to say that Ernie or Errol are unfair or out to get people is just dead wrong.

January 21st, 2006, 20:16	#1
GaTechKid Old Skool Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Frigid NWA Hub Posts: 1,883	Instructing for ATP (Former Instructor) Here's my thoughts on my time as an ATP instructor. Perhaps other instructors will post their thoughts on if it was worth the stress. I'll just paste what I wrote in another thread: I instructed for ATP in Chicago from May '05 - Dec '05 and I disagree with you. Working for ATP was indeed stressful and living in Chicago off $1200 a month was difficult but working conditions weren't "horrible" and I certainly didn't live or work "like a dog." Generally, the busiest times were the last 2-3 weeks of each summer month which were filled with 12-14 hour days but I was flying 4-8 hours each day. The rest of the time I usually had 2-3 days off a week to go visit the fiancee in another state. I had a steady supply of customers while working there. I flew a meager 25 hours in September yet I still made $1200. I instructed in well-maintained aircraft. Things broke regularly and a call to maintenance almost always ended with "We'll overnight you the part and have Lumanair install it tomorrow morning." I'm sure HQ monitored my pass rate and I was definately worried about it while working there, however I ran the entire location with the other instructor our way. No direct day-by-day supervision/scrutiny by a boss or chief pilot. With my career students and within their availability I was able to set my own hours. I'm sure it's a great pleasure to have a student from day one in their flying career, but I never had to take on the liability of signing off a student pilot. The instruction I provided was multi/instrument which was always challenging, progressive, and fun. All but 2-3 locations have housing provided for instructors for $200/month. Sure you have to share a room but it's fully furnished with washer/dryer and that includes all utilities. Instructing for ATP is by no means a career in and of itself but it certainly helped to launch mine. Most of the bitching you hear from ATP instructors is exaggeration and venting from the stress of getting people you've never met ready for checkrides in 2-4 days. Personally I think it's amazing that amount of freedom and trust ATP puts into their instructors to run most of their locations. __________________ "I'd rather screw my way around the country then blow my way around..." - Saab 340 Driver

January 21st, 2006, 20:57	#2
UND_Flyer Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: CVG Posts: 1,016	GaTechKid, Thanks for your post, I appreciate it! I'm considering going back to ATP, but this time as an instructor after I graduate from UND in May. The only thing that sucks is the pay and sometimes long hours, but you get to fly great equipment and you can rack up a pretty good amount of hours in a very little time. I'm definitely going to keep ATP in mind and I'll be sending my resume to Jim in about 2 months or so. We'll see what happens... Thanks! __________________ "A mile of highway will take you a mile. A mile of runway will take you anywhere!"

January 22nd, 2006, 00:34	#6
BobDDuck Old Skool Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Left Seat Posts: 5,523	Bob, I'm sorry it didn't work out well for you. When I was in the office I was not offered a spot in JAX and had I been I probably would have turned it down for the very reasons you mention. Every location does have it's problems and believe it or not, there are people at other locations that think they have as much control over your job as the managment does in JAX. It is the nature of the business. As an instructor for ATP you are highly replacable. If you do keep your head down you will do just fine. However, there are sometimes situations where you as the "PIC" (well, the instructor anyways) have to say something or do something that clashes with what the office wants. Sometimes these things are survivable and sometimes they are not. In 10 months of instructing I ran into three problems that were serious enough for me to end up having to do a carpet dance over the phone. In two cases I was dead right and in one of those two managment sided with me and gave me the support I needed to correct the problem. In the other one it ended in something of a draw, but I had been there long enough at that point that I had a little wampum in the bank and that probably saved me. The third instance was something stupid I did and I got out of it due to ignorance. Lucky? Maybe. Is ATP a fun place to instruct (at any location)? Not always. It has it's moments, but the sheer amount of time that an instructor is expected to put in can make it hard. It seems that most instructors are bailing after 5 months and the RJ program. This is really a whole other issue, but haveing a set end date most likely helps to make it easier. Anyway you look at it, it is definatly worth it for the multi time. __________________ TBJC08 The Gear Monkey The Gear Monkey Store

January 22nd, 2006, 18:15	#11
smokey1 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Houston Posts: 329	I would have to agree with those that say Erol was a joy to work with, because he was. If you are getting into disagreements with Erol, you are probably doing something you weren't supposed to do. However, I worked at a location that was far away from HQ and it was great until they decided to give us an "office manager"... When we got him it was time for me to go. Smoke __________________ Terminal B

January 22nd, 2006, 22:55	#12
BobDDuck Old Skool Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Left Seat Posts: 5,523	Hey Smokey, how's the little one? Probably not that little anymore I would guess. Ethan __________________ TBJC08 The Gear Monkey The Gear Monkey Store

January 21st, 2006, 22:00	#3
nkoenig Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Houston, Tx Posts: 427	nice avatar!

January 21st, 2006, 23:02	#4
bob loblaw Banned Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 630	I worked for ATP for one month and was fired after having a disagreement with Ernie Strange. In my time at ATP, I found that most other instructors there at the Jacksonville location were basically walking on eggshells and afraid to voice an opinion on anything. More than one instructor said that they would do whatever they can to instruct at a location other than Jacksonville and as far away from the corporate office. To them, avoiding Ernie and Erol was a must. I stood up for what I knew was right even though I knew full well that my job there was in jeopardy. My question to anyone who can answer it is this. If ATP is so great, why did more than one instructor say that they want any location, as long as it is far away from Jacksonville? I know one instructor personally, whom I will not name told me flat out that I was nuts for wanting to stay in Jacksonville. I wanted to work at the first location I could get, but other people had an agenda. If you can keep your opinions to yourself and say yes sir to Ernie, even when he is dead wrong about a subject, you will do well at ATP. In my time there, I noticed that the general thinking at ATP was if you have a problem at or with ATP, your chances of getting a job at an airline is greatly reduced. I am sure this is not the case, as I have started a better CFI job in PA. There is no multi time, but that is OK. There is life after ATP and ATP is not better than sliced bread.

January 21st, 2006, 23:20	#5
Gizmo Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 112	Bob, Who are these two guys, Ernie and Erol?

January 23rd, 2006, 10:59	#13
John2375 Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Bradenton, FL Posts: 131	I'm definitley considering doing the ATP CFI/II/MEI course and trying to get on w/their Lakeland, FL location since that's the closest one to me.. What are the odds of being hired as a CFI if doing their program? Good? Pretty good? Only good if you're really impress them? I think I'm going to try to do some banner towing over the summer so I'd probably become a CFI w/approx 800 hours (maybe 1000 but let's not get that optimistic...let's say 7-800 total time) How long would it likely take to have those ever-precious Part 135 IFR minimums??

January 24th, 2006, 22:43	#16
meyers9163 Old Skool Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Indiana Posts: 2,027	So say you dont want to work for an Expressjet or PSA, or Eagle so therefore you want to gain hours instructing would ATP be a place where someone would want to stick around to gain hours to meet the mins of an AWAC or a Skywest? Especially if you have a high internal reference from either of those two companies and you just want to log hours so they can walk in a resume. Of course undersanding there are no guarantees but yet sticking around longer and gaining hours you also gain experience and can learn even more. Just wondering if ATP would be a place someone would want to stay around to get say 1000TT? (roughly how many hours do your instructors average, i know it changes but in general)..... Thank you!

January 25th, 2006, 17:45	#20
GaTechKid Old Skool Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Frigid NWA Hub Posts: 1,883	Depends on the weather and/or schedule. I only flew ~25 hours in Sept. due to a light schedule and the instructor up in Chicago only flew 6 hours in the first half of January due to the weather. __________________ "I'd rather screw my way around the country then blow my way around..." - Saab 340 Driver

January 25th, 2006, 22:30	#21
tapcon Newbie Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 11	As a former instructor I just want to add my 2 cents. If you are 121 bound, I would have to say that ATP is the place to instruct. There's no argument, the multi time and the way the company is structured, you will definately be flyining in the right seat for Express Jet, Eagle or what other regional that they have an agremment with in a short amount of time. HOWEVER, it comes wih a big price tag: VERY little money (especially if you assigned to a small location), keep your mouth shut (even if you're right), get dangled with FMS certification and RJ sim training and other programs at a minimally reduced price and of course having to kiss but and play secretary in the pit (you'll find out what this means if you instruct). At the end of the day, they do get their instructors flying jets pretty quickly. After a few months at ATP as an instructor, I decided that it wasn't for me. I also quickly realized that I was not 121 material. I am grateful for ATP showing me how much I wouldn't like flying 121. The only advice that I have is to just make sure that you REALLY want to fly in a 121 environment before you jump into the right seat of ATPs Seminoles. Eventhough it took a little bit longer, I love my 135 job and I have to say...2 types and making $120K to go to exotic locations, I am SO happy that I didn't go to the regionals. Don't know if this helped, but I wish you all the best of luck.

January 28th, 2006, 01:23	#23
Tram Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: KMSL Posts: 1,836	Hmm.. what is it like to work for ATP.. "Hi, welcome to our company... you will work from the time the work needs to start until the work is finished, whatever it takes..." I worked... "like a dog.." 14+ hour days were nothing unusual.. However, flying 100 or more hours a month wasn't unusual either.. However, I had a blast.. "If ATP is so great, why did more than one instructor say that they want any location, as long as it is far away from Jacksonville? I know one instructor personally, whom I will not name told me flat out that I was nuts for wanting to stay in Jacksonville." Ehh.. you were nuts for wanting Jax.. Why did most people not want Jax? Mainly because Jax is the headquarters.. You are under constant scrutiny by the big wigs.. No one likes having the big wigs looking over their should in anything.. I could have easily been the guy who told you I would work at any location but Jax.. CRG has this.. aura about it.. I wanted to get out of Jax as fast as me feets would scoot me.. Chances are though, if you didn't like ATP as an instructor, your gonna hate the airlines.. The thing ATP has going for them and against the instructors is - we were all 1000% replaceable - tomorrow.. If you screwed up alot, you were gone.. If they didn't like you, you were gone.. It is their company and they can do with it what they like.. I loved ATP.. I got everything I wanted out of them and they got what they wanted out of me.. I served them well and they served me well.. I made life long friends, racked the crap out of some multi-time, had a blast and have the video's to prove it.. __________________ I flew the 757-200 sim at NATCO DANGIT...ON ONE ENGINE OUT OF EAGLE COLORADO AND THEN CIRCUMNAVIGATED A THUNDERSTORM!!! And what do these PAX do?! Glare at me..

January 28th, 2006, 20:38	#25
jbp1 Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 117	Just to clarify the whole Ernie and Errol thing... Ernie is a nice guy, as long as you dont consistently prove yourself to be an idiot. He will go out of his way to help you out, as long as you dont try to turn things into a pissing match with him. If Ernie doesnt like you, its probably for a good reason. The man has A LOT of aviation experience and isnt just a pilot examiner who has never been around the 121 community. You have to show Ernie that you know what you are doing and give him the respect that he deserves and he will respect you. Errol is possibly the nicest guy I have ever met. I worked for him for almost 5 years in the HQ. Those of you that know who I am know that I wont BS about this just to protect ATP's name and reputation. I have personally seen Errol go out of his way unneccessarily to help out instructors and students numerous times, and at the same time I have seen Errol drop the hammer on some people that needed to go. So for someone who worked for ATP for a VERY SHORT TIME to say that Ernie or Errol are unfair or out to get people is just dead wrong.

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