ATP seems like your just a number

[VicMackey]

I am new to this and have no idea yet where I will take my training...I will probably start at a local FBO. From what I read about ATP it sounds like you are just a number and you would be lucky if they even knew your name. Are they really that good at getting people hired, or wouldn't it be better to go to a smaller place that would be more one on one and give a crap about you. $800 a month take home...no health insurance...17 hour days. I don't know..I'm asking, are they that good. I'm still trying to figure out which direction I want to go, and I know that after I complete training I would like to CFI for awhile for the flight time and because I think it would be a good experience.

[BB300]

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I would like to CFI for awhile for the flight time and because I think it would be a good experience.

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There's not many places you can CFI and log 100+ hours/month multi time..this may not be every month, but the hours are there to earn. If you are looking to be a career CFI ATP is probably not the best choice; but if you are looking to gain some great experience teaching more than private pilots in excellent aircraft at usually busy airports ATP might be for you.

[GaTechKid]

[ QUOTE ]
From what I read about ATP it sounds like you are just a number and you would be lucky if they even knew your name. Are they really that good at getting people hired, or wouldn't it be better to go to a smaller place that would be more one on one and give a crap about you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Any way you can rephrase this to follow a more logical path?

[casey]

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From what I read about ATP it sounds like you are just a number and you would be lucky if they even knew your name.

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its not a huge company, and everyone spends time in the admin office before going out to a location. That coupled with your time talking to dispatch as a student, they do know your name.

[CFIse]

If you're an instructor there have a career student fail checkride twice - I GUARANTEE they know your name then.

[JEP]

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Are they really that good at getting people hired,

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Uhhh - Click Here....I Would say yes....

[Tram]

ATP make you numba 1.

[VicMackey]

thanks for the replies. like I said... I am only beginning to look into all of this. from some of the posts I read it seemed like some of the cfi's weren't happy, and one guy applied to them and got offered a job, but he had to get surgery done at the time of hire and they couldn't wait a week for him to do it. it just seemed from what i was reading that it was a large company and didn't really care that much about it students or employees. i never once thought that the instructors didn't care, don't take it like that. i guess i just worry that sometimes the larger the company is, the easier it is for everyone to become a number on a tracking sheet. i am not ruling out atp as an eventual choice for me, chicago is just three hours from me. i am going to langa air by st louis on saturday just to check it out. there is also midwest aviation that is one hour from me, but it is a brand new school and worries me a little becasue of that. i'm leaning towards going to a local fbo for as much as i can and completing my degree online.

[viczx9]

ATP does not care about you. Rich Tillery has a saying that he tells CFI's. He says, " you CFI's are like Dixie Cups and admin is the dispencer. Screw up or do something and we throw you out and put another one in your place." Now I just got fired from ATP last month and I can tell you this is the way they treat you. I had a student ask me a question about spins hurting the gyros and when I told him if you spin an airplane enough, over time it could hurt the gyros. Ernie Strange who is an examiner at ATP came out of his office and told me I don't know what the F I was talking about and that I need documentation proving what I just said. He said this stuff in front of the students.

I asked him if the gyros don't get hurt, why do some planes have cageing gyros. He didn't like me challenging him in front of the students. Long story short, they fired me. The only thing I can say is I didn't give them $40,000 of my money, I trained else where. Had I paid $40,000 for the program only to have them treat me this way would have been disasterous. I have, however, witnessed ATP treat those who have paid the money the same way. I can't tell you what to do, but I won't recommend ATP to my friends or family.

[VicMackey]

That's exactly the kind of stuff that worries me. I've heard ATP called para military. Now, i've been in the military and i can handle that kind of crap, but i don't need to pay money to do it. When i was in the military i was property, that was understood. Jump how high. But if ATP is really all about that, then i'll pass. I am a self motivated individual, I don't need prodding.In a flight school I want to know that the school and management, not just the instructors care about me. I am planning on instructing to build time as well, so I definately don't want to be a dixie cup. Any other stories on how ATP treats you. I'm hearing good and bad. I am not one to form an opinion on something until I can take it all in. I do plan on visiting ATP Chicago, so that will also help me formulate an opinion.

[mtsu_av8er]

I had a wonderful experience at ATP for the training that I recieved there. I did my Multi-Comm and MEI with them at the BWG location, and they were cool. I actually still talk to the CFI's up there and stop in when I'm in town. They seemed to know the folks in Dispatch well enough, and they never had any problems.

Some folks will have good experiences, and others will have bad. Consider the source of the negative thigs you're hearing, and then reconsider what they say. Make your decisions based on you!

I know a really cool flight school, here in Middle Tennessee, where you can make far more than $800/month take home!

[viczx9]

The guys in Dispatch are really cool. Brandon was my roomate and I can't say enough good things about him. I also did training with ATP. I did the 5 day Comm/Multi, the CFII/MEI with them and the training I got was awesome. That speaks volumes about the instructors who work there. However, The treatment you get while employed there is not that great. The D.E. who worked at JAX didn't like me because I stood up for myself. He would have liked me better if I said to him your right, I am a F'n idiot moron. Which is what he said to me infront of the students. You have to do exactly what you are doing. Ask questions and know that what happened to me might not happen to you, but what happened to me shouldn't happen to anyone. Since it did, I am very vocal about it.

When I did the training listed above at ATP, I left a positive testimonial on their website. I am very fair and honest about what happened, so yes consider the source.

[JEP]

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Now I just got fired from ATP last month

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..../deleted...wrong poster/

.....At least we know where you are coming from.

[JEP]

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I know a really cool flight school, here in Middle Tennessee, where you can make far more than $800/month take home!

[/ QUOTE ]

Yea, but watch for the Assistant CP. I hear he is a bear to work with!

[mtsu_av8er]

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I know a really cool flight school, here in Middle Tennessee, where you can make far more than $800/month take home!

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Yea, but watch for the Assistant CP. I hear he is a bear to work with!

[/ QUOTE ]

Like being in The Marine Corps on a daily basis . . . uniform inspections, morning and evening formations, and there's scuttlebutt about a PT program being implemented!

Of course, it's balanced by a Friday beerfest and Tuesday Margarita outing!

[JEP]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
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I know a really cool flight school, here in Middle Tennessee, where you can make far more than $800/month take home!

[/ QUOTE ]

Yea, but watch for the Assistant CP. I hear he is a bear to work with!

[/ QUOTE ]

Like being in The Marine Corps on a daily basis . . . uniform inspections, morning and evening formations, and there's scuttlebutt about a PT program being implemented!

Of course, it's balanced by a Friday beerfest and Tuesday Margarita outing!

[/ QUOTE ]

dang !!! I got's to move to Tennessee! Although I prefer beer on Tues and Margarits on Fri,.....

[viczx9]

You two guys highjacked Vicmacky's thread pretty quickly.

[JEP]

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You two guys highjacked Vicmacky's thread pretty quickly.

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Wow....you're pretty quick! Did they teach you that in school?

And the point of you post was...........

Relax. Threads will get hijacked from time to time. You realize that after you have been here for awhile. Deal with it and move on.

/end hijack (Is that better?)

[viczx9]

[ QUOTE ]
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And the point of you post was...........
[

That you two guys highjacked Vicmacky's thread pretty quickly.

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[Van_Hoolio]

I'm one of the ones that went through ATP's program and was not hired as an instructor. As a customer, I was happy with ATP's product. I went from private pilot to CFI/MEI/MEII in less than 90 days for exactly $37,995.00.

Obviously I have reason to not think much of ATP's instructor selection process, which I think in my case was rather circumstantial and subjective. If anyone of any importance wants to know why I feel this way they can contact me. I don’t want to get into all the details of my experience with standardization training and what went on during my two “Rich Ride” attempts. Maybe past and present ATP instructors will read this and think, “Man, this guy is a dumbass for failing his Rich Rides.” That’s ok. That leads straight back to my main point.

I do concede that I made mistakes, the biggest of which was taking it for granted that getting over 60 hours dual received and many more ground and sim hours as part of ATP's Career Pilot Program would thoroughly qualify and prepare me for working for ATP as a flight instructor. That was not the case in my experience. I was offered the opportunity to purchase $1095-worth of additional training to bring me up to their standards, but I had to decline. It would not have been a responsible move on my part.

Even with what I went through I would still recommend ATP for flight training, but the recommendation would have to come with cautionary advice to those seeking employment with ATP after completion. I don't want to knock ATP's training program. I don't want anything from them either. I don't want Jim K. to read this post and call me tomorrow saying, "Oh, sorry Mike. Here, come work for us." or anything like that. ATP is the one hiring the instructors. They don't have to justify to me why they choose the way they do. It's over and done with. Maybe I am that bad of a pilot. Maybe I have yet to develop into a good one, maybe I never will. I'm man enough to accept that. Maybe I've gone $50,000 into debt on what for me will only amount to an expensive hobby. I won't know until given the chance to prove myself later on.

-Mike

[scoobs]

It is overpriced and just another pilot factory.

[Tram]

VicMacky - The guy you mentioned with surgery, Ty, is now working in the ATP Office in at this moment.

Scoobs- Overpriced? How do you figure that?

Let's do this if you "do it on your own."

Let's say 130 hours of multi time @ $250 an hour..
130x$250= $32,500

Now let's add in there the training needed for the instrument rating, SE Commercial, ME Commerical and throw in your CFI, CFII and the MEI.. you think you could do all those ratings at your local mom and pop flight school for under $7K? I know I was quoted $9K for JUST my instrument ride..

Now, let's factor into that the time.. How much is YOUR time worth? Let's say someone does it in 90 days.. and you do all those ratings in what? Let's say 2 years... and that is a BUSY 2 years at your mom and pop shop.. So.. take the guy who made wide body captain 2 years before you did.. at the same age - he just made $400K or so more than you did.. All because ATP is "overpriced."

All of this of course is speculation.. Your mileage may vary, but there is one thing I know, ATP is not overpriced. Have you priced Riddle or Delta Connection Academy or some of the others? Might wanna do a lil' research before you start spouting off stuff..

As far as how ATP treats you while your here.. Well.. I have been nothing but pleased so far, I hate that Victor is no longer here, but I will put it this way..

I have an interview for an airline this weekend and I got a call from several of the people in the "office" at ATP wishing me well, giving me hints and tips, helping me pick out my freaking suit and tie color, etc.. I also got several letters of reccomendation fedex'd up to me - I never knew they were comming, never asked for them, etc.. I am happy with ATP and if ATP helps me get my foot in the door at an airline, my $40K was very very well spent..

The simple answer is this VicMackey - if you can find a place to do it as quick and as cheap as you can at ATP - man, I would be all over it..

Do you know how many CFI's in this country would love to be logging 80 hours of solid multi a month? If you don't, wait until you've sat in a 172 for 300 hours of dual given and then let me know.

[BobDDuck]

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I have an interview for an airline this weekend and I got a call from several of the people in the "office" at ATP wishing me well, giving me hints and tips, helping me pick out my freaking suit and tie color, etc.. I also got several letters of reccomendation fedex'd up to me - I never knew they were comming, never asked for them, etc..

[/ QUOTE ]

You had better be carful about that Tram, people in the office may like you so much that they tell a certain airline not to hire you just so they can keep you around.

I doubt it though. Hope you interview (it was this weekend right?) is going well.

As to the origional post.... Training at ATP and working at ATP are two entirly different things. Unfortunatly many people connect the two together when the are evaluating the program. The quality of the training is good and the price is pretty good as well. Working as an instructor SHOULD NOT be a reason for attending the training program. If it is what you want to do (and many people do come in with that outlook) fine... but don't count on it as being the end out come.

[Matt777]

When I called them several days ago the guy told me that they are hiring so many instructors right now that they are even hiring from outside of ATPS, when they prefer to hire from within.

He said that when he completed the program in 2003 he went home afterwards (and worked at an FBO there) and wasn't hired as a CFI by ATPS until 6 months later.

If he was making stuff up so that I would enroll I don't think he would have been honest about his situation where he didn't get hired right away.

I've talked to 3 different guys ther on the phone and they all seem to be normal nice guys who have gone through the program themselves and are just relating their experience.

He was also honest about the fact that the 3 hours in the Citation Jet doesn't really accomplish much (in terms of getting a job or rating)- that it was just mostly a fun time.

One said that some people are are getting hired by airlines (I assume ExpressJet) with only 600 hours!

Anyone know anything about this?

Anyone have any insight into whether or not I should choose Sacramento or LA (Riverside)- and experiences good or bad?

I'll continue reading this ATP forum now to see all the previous posts....

I'm someone who is counting on being an instructor at ATP even though it has been said here not to count on that!

[Tram]

Sounds like you got to talk to DJ..

Ethan - My interview is Sunday/Monday..