family man instructor

[buffalopilot]

I finished the ACPP last July and now have a family. I want to instruct in JAX and move my family down. If I want my own apartment at Danforth, does ATP help with it at all?

Also, is ATP hiring pilots who just do the Instructor Program?

[Tram]

I doubt it...

[Sig]

With all due respect,


are you nuts? I have a very strong sense that what I'm about to post will be ignored because your mind is made up- bear with this post and it is from experience.

You are about to enter the most stressful/busy phase of your career- an instructor at ATP. You will be gone more than you can imagine even though it is right around the corner, and you will be blasted tired most of the time. Spare your family the stress, and keep them somewhere safe for a few months! If you have to "move them down," don't! There are two imperatives that can only make this worthwhile:

1- They are already familiar with the area and have extended family very nearby, and
2- Money is not an option at all, period, end of story.

#1 is actually two imperatives... If you can't answer yes to both, you will be burnt out faster than you can possibly imagine. You're starry eyed and excited and eager to move on, but the reality is so much more difficult than you are letting yourself believe right now. You will not, I repeat, WILL NOT be doing anyone any favors within two months of doing this. Mark my words.

The worst part? It doesn't get easier for a very long time. My career progression after ATP:

Remember, this is after 15 hour days were normal, a newborn child and a cranky wife for over a year, and I had already spent 5 months in the office answering phones...

Flight instructed at another school, became "Chief" in title which meant long hours in the offices and flying very little...

Got hired flying a Pressurized Baron 58. Couple weeks at SimCom in Aridzone-A for initial and checkride. Came home, gone for two/three day RONs and was on call. Flew a TON. Spent hours at the office right up the street. Got really good experience- you name the emergency, it happened. Skillz never better. Solo time in and out of IAH, from the flight levels to dead-on mins in the foggy southeast, crazed owner that didn't think he needed a pilot's license to fly his PBaron... scary individual. Wrapped his drunken body around a telephone pole one day riding his motorcycle.

Flew Pilatus PC12 for air ambulance. This move was for a better schedule- 7 on/7 off, decent pay. Moved to Arizona again for training, lasted a month. Had the wife and baby visit, nearly missed my 2:00am sim slot because of it. Exhausted. Took two days to catch up. Not good. Schedule ok, except I lived 12 hours a day at DAL, rotating a week of days/nights. I saw the writing on the wall and correctly predicted they'd be furloughing all FOs by EOY 2004.

Moved on to a regional. Left for months during trianing, on the right coast. Came home for 6 weeks, went back for SOE. Immediately missed Thanksgiving, Christmas, New Years, the third anniversary, Valentine's day, and the initial court hearing for the divorce.

I live a modest life on a beach in Maryland. I make exceptional money for a first year FO, but 800/mo to my daughter stretches one thin on any salary.

I never sat reserve! I had the easiest schedules, best commutable base as a hard-line holder, and it was just too late.

Two years after my initial CFI checkride, I have 2200 TT/1900 multi/1000 Part 121 Turbine, an expired 8410 on the PC12, a decent career, and a friend I used to call my wife.

Think very, very hard about moving your family. I didn't, and even I don't really have one any more! Do what is best for them. Maintain the NICEST living situation for your family, NOT THE CLOSEST!

***

Re-read the post- it is unclear.

I think your career's progression will follow the other XJers and whatnot that go straight to an airline- when you are established on the truly professional beginning of your career, THEN move your family.

I didn't move them, had a meandering course to the airline of my choice, and by the time I was established and could do things like plan for a longer term, I was deevorced.

I promise you, I'd have been divorced much earlier if I had moved them for some reason. Stress was literally crippling me. Two years later, and I'm almost back to the guy who walked into the center for an interview.

[SIUav8er]

[ QUOTE ]
Immediately missed Thanksgiving, Christmas, New Years, the third anniversary, Valentine's day, and the initial court hearing for the divorce.

Two years after my initial CFI checkride, I have 2200 TT/1900 multi/1000 Part 121 Turbine, an expired 8410 on the PC12, a decent career, and a friend I used to call my wife.


I didn't move them, had a meandering course to the airline of my choice, and by the time I was established and could do things like plan for a longer term, I was deevorced.

I promise you, I'd have been divorced much earlier if I had moved them for some reason. Stress was literally crippling me. Two years later, and I'm almost back to the guy who walked into the center for an interview.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ouch Sounds like having a family at all, whether they lived close or not, would have been tough.

[Sig]

They lived in the TC I instructed at. Doesn't matter- there are a billion other reasons why the marriage didn't work.

The owner of ATP had it every single bit as hard as that, but multiplied by 6 trillion and googolplexed. He worked harder than any human I've ever heard of. That's why he owns what he owns, and has accomplished what he accomplished. On top of all of that, he's raised one hell of a family.

I can be done- just tread wisely.

[Airdale]

Wow....you scared me.

I just got engaged last month and I start ATP Aug. 1st. She did a good job dealing with the last minute military deployments, but now going from that to almost the same kind of thing being away so much, I wonder how she'll deal with it.

I would like to instruct for ATP, but I don't know about jumping all over the damn place waiting for a position at the ATP location by my house in Jersey (Trenton). Let me ask you, is it easier on you (the instructor) if you are working at one of ATP's self-paced locations? Say for example the ATP Trenton, NJ location doesn't offer the fast track programs, just the self-paced ones. Would that location be more relaxed depending on what kind of student you have?

I can't wait to get to an airline, but I don't know if I want to sacrifice a family to get there. I mean we're going to plan a wedding once I get out of school and start looking for a house to buy. She's already settled as a school teacher and she wants kids in a few years. Ain't gonna happen if we don't have a house.

What about flight instructing at other local FBO's? Would it look bad to the airlines to not work for a place like ATP? I actually want to fly Aerobatics or Stunt/Test pilot, but I need something more "realistic" to start off with. If I work for a regional for a few years and land something better doing one of the mentioned above, I'll be there in a heart beat.

Thanks

[BobDDuck]

[ QUOTE ]

What about flight instructing at other local FBO's? Would it look bad to the airlines to not work for a place like ATP?


[/ QUOTE ]

Not at all. Hundreds of CFIs get hired to the airlines every year with out ever setting foot in an ATP aircraft. Sure, instructing at ATP is a pretty good gig and yes we do get a whole lot of multi time but that doesn't mean there aren't other ways. People may say the multi time is all important and it is, but keep in mind that you will have about 140 hours of it coming out of the career pilot program. I would reccomend that before you get started at ATP go around to some of the local flight schools and talk to them about possibilities of instructing when you get done with the program. They won't be able to guess on CFI demand that far in advance but just get your name out there. If one of them clicks keep them updated as to your progress at ATP and in a perfect world you may have a job lined up before you ever leave the program. The downsides of that job compared to ATP? Well, the multi time (but as I said before, you already have almost all you need for most regionals, more then for some). The amount of hours flown... although depending on how well you sell your self to prospective students that might not be a problem either. And considering that your dream flying job doesn't involve flying for an airline you may have better luck networking in an FBO environment then at an ATP location. Best of luck to you.

Edit:

Something I forgot to add. I'm starting to see that QOL is MUCH more important that getting to that airline job a few months faster. If you can instruct and have a good family life at the same time, who cares if it takes a few extra months to get a right seat job. As long as you are progressing towards your goal and happy with life, rock on. Sorry if that sounds sort of out there. Maybe somebody else can phrase it better for me.

[Airdale]

Thanks for the reply! Everything you said makes perfect sense to me! I want to just have a career in aviation. An aerobatic pilot might not be the best career choice as its not real defined. I just want to fly and make decent money while enjoying life with my family. I don't want to give up a family to move around the country 9 times before finally getting a commercial job. Not worth it to me. You only live once and raising a little family is important on my list. I don't think its out there at all.

[Tram]

Hehe.. Aerobatic pilot.. Now there's a career with "longevity" written all over it.

ATP doesn't have to be on your resume to get to an airline at all.. Most of us who are at ATP are here for the multitime, not the ATP name stamped on some papers somewhere..