Key Bank loan

[IndianaPilot]

Ok guys....ugly just got uglier. As you know, myself and my dad ( co-signer ) were denied by Key. I just got word today...SLM denies us also, but gave us a counter offer of 25,000. Obviously that wont cut it. Any ideas as to why we are having problems ?? My dad has perfect credit...with an income of over 70,000 a year, but they are saying he is not a good co-signer. Never in his life has he been denied anything....we are like...at loss here.

[adreamer]

Hello there:

Just wondering wether your dad still owe some money somewhere?


adreamer

[SmitteyB]

[ QUOTE ]
Ok guys....ugly just got uglier. As you know, myself and my dad ( co-signer ) were denied by Key. I just got word today...SLM denies us also, but gave us a counter offer of 25,000. Obviously that wont cut it. Any ideas as to why we are having problems ?? My dad has perfect credit...with an income of over 70,000 a year, but they are saying he is not a good co-signer. Never in his life has he been denied anything....we are like...at loss here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow. If you say it like it is, and your dad has the credit you say he does, then there is absolutely NO REASON you should get denied.

Do you have credit card debt?

Like it was said above...does your dad owe an extreme amount of money?

I had only had credit for about 6 months and my parents who have good credit, however still have a mortgage got approved.

Sorry to hear man, you'll get the money.

[IndianaPilot]

Yep guys my dad doesnt really have any outstanding debt.....other than a very small portion of the mortgage. He is still on my other loan that i had for my private rating, but that is a secured loan through the local bank. Other than that, nothing else. SLM did give us a counter offer of 25,000....so i think i'm gonna take that, get my class date reserved, and somehow bring in the other part of the money. The original plan was to do my time build starting on the 18th of this month, and i'm still gonna shoot for that. Take the 25,000, put in the 1000 deposit, time build, and at least get the program started. Now to get the remaining part of the tuition, my dad is trying to work stuff out. He even talked about selling his truck.....but man i dunno if i can let him do that without feeling guilty forever !!! So we're not dead in the water yet !

[SmitteyB]

Check out local credit unions. They are more lienient as well as the BEST interest rates. You've got a nice dad to be willing to sell his truck so you can go fly. Good Luck.

[IndianaPilot]

Good idea Smittey i'll look into that, credit unions. Yeah some people wonder who wants this more...me, or my dad. See he isnt fond of the idea of me being a firefighter. He always says, he'd rather see me in a cockpit than in a burning house....and he'll do anything to help put me there !! But...no way am i letting him sell his truck. I'll take the 25,000 and stay at a local FBO if i have to.....gotta draw the line somewhere ya know.

[JJPilot]

sometimes the problem is "potential debt" for example... perfect credit owing only on his morgage but has 5 credit cards with zero balances but 15,000 limits... the bank see the "potential" of something getting charged and not being able to pay back this loan....

I would ask your dad about this and if he has cards with zero balances, cancel them.

*$.02*


good luck!

[IndianaPilot]

Yeah i asked him JJ, but thats not the case as far as credit cards go. I also just realized something. Taking the 25,000 and starting the program with the hope of finding the rest of the funds later was the plan...but i been thinking about it...and i'm not sure thats a good idea. Thats not a lot of time to come up with that much money. Honestly, we are stumped here. Dont know what to do really

[xavier0002]

I just tried key bank with a cosigner, he has really good credit makes more than 57k but has some dept from house morgage and was denied. The reason they gave us is that they want to see at least an extra 1000 diposable dollards each month after all the bills are paid in order to aprove the loan...it blows...

now i am trying sallie mae.

[SmitteyB]

If perfectly good candidates are getting turned down for loans by Key Bank, who used to be known to give money to anyone, then this is not good for future pilots.

[SteveC]

My bet is that Key is finding out that CFI's and regional pilots can't afford to pay back those big loans at the wages they make. Key Bank isn't in the business of giving money away without getting it back......with interest!

Take a hint, guys. If the banks won't loan it to you, it's because they realize that they can't make money off from you. They are not in business to turn people down for loans, they want to give you money!

People getting turned down for huge flight training loans should be a red flag for everyone. Lending organizations love to have people in debt up to their eyeballs, as long as those people can still make the payments. Beyond that level and the lenders start losing their shirts also, not just the borrowers. If the lenders are seeing more people get into debt beyond their means to pay back the loans, then they change their lending policies. I think that you should keep this in mind when trying to figure out if you can afford those large debts in the first place, especially considering your income potential over the next few years.

[IndianaPilot]

Yeah Xavier that sucks dont it. My co-signer, Dad, has excellant credit for like 40 years....and has an income well over $70,000 a year, and we were denied by Key totally, and was only offered 25,000 from Salie Mae. Smittey your right, it does not look good for future pilots as far as banks are concerned. Steve i think you nailed it right on the head with your theory. Key Bank, Salie Mae, and a list of others are affiliated with flight schools and academies across the country. Seems like they are starting to realize exactly what we as students are aiming for....high priced training for a very low paid job. Was probably just a matter of time before they seen this. When you mentioned changing their lending policies, thats pretty much what i've been told is going on with Key right now. Used to be easy to get loans from them. But i guess recently they have undergone some changes, and their policies are changed. Obviously it's not the case anymore.

As far as i'm concerned, we've decided here to wait about a year before starting at ATP. I'm gonna pay off my other loan, bank some money, build some flight time and chip away on my instrument rating at the local FBO. At that time maybe it will be more realistic. But pretty much my dad and I have gone over all options right now, and it's just not possible. In a year we'll re-apply hopefully with better luck.

[SmitteyB]

That is bu*ll. No reason you should have to wait on your dream. That is really the definition for the word ' unfair ' . But you will land a break, these things have a way of working out sometimes, keep your head up, and don't think about giving up. Good luck and Take Care.

(at least you didn't pick DCA).

[SteveC]

[ QUOTE ]
....No reason you should have to wait on your dream. That is really the definition for the word ' unfair ' .....

[/ QUOTE ]

Ah yes, the Great American Ethos.

[xavier0002]

got word today from sallie mae. They gave me the loan but counter offered what i was asking originally, nevertheless it is good enough so far.

I don't know why key bank became that way...but it is, definetelly no good.

Indiana... have you thought about doing it at ari ben aviator.... i know that you wanted atp, but you might be able to do it at ari ben for the loan amount that they gave you... i know that i considered that since they initially counter offered me.

anway good luck and don't give up

[freq_flier]

Jeez this is really scary!!!!!

My husband and I are goint to apply at Sallie Mae in August, he will be attending ATP. We both have a credit score of 700+, and we have a decent income. We do not own a home and have only one very low car payment. Other than that we are completely debt free. Do you think we will be approved?

[Midl1]

I know when I applied to Key... I to got denied... but then I lowered the amount requested, and didn't have a co-signer and they approved me... the key part was to re-apply for a new loan, and not try to ammend the old, start fresh with htem and see what happens. I was approved in about 2 hours the next time... and got $49,000 from them. Hope this helps...

[Midl1]

Bad idea on cancelling them... it is better to keep them open then close... having them open mantains you debt ratio and strengthens your credit, so the best theing is to have them open and just not use the, but like once evey 6 months to keep them active.... this will improve you credit FICO score tremendeously... some day your going to want to buy the beautiful home and then you will be in hte same place... open lines of credit with a history are the best thing for you.

[IndianaPilot]

LOL....thanks Smittey......ur right it is bull...but what can you say. I dont feel bad about it, i mean yeah it sucks that i have to wait. But in the meantime, i can still fly, and i'll be working on my instrument rating....so really i didnt loose anything. Just a slight change in plans...nothing more than that. I try to look at it and form something positive from it....which i have. I get to stay at my local FBO for my instrument, with my same instructor that i REALLY enjoy flying with from my private, it's very close to home, and it's a really nice aircraft....new 172 with all the GPS equipment. So no reason to feel bad really !!

Xavier i think Ari would be cool, but i needed a program that would allow me to stay here and keep my job at the fire dept. Thats why ATP is perfect....there is an office in the chicago area and i can do self paced.

[adreamer]

About getting the loan, it has been a weird process. There are few key things bank are looking for. This is based on what I have asked around bankers .

One thing is not to have a bad credit report. For example, you forgot to pay some bills and collecting agency was send to your way. Even you paid it off whatever you owed, it would remain on your credit report for 7 years(unless you use your attorney!!!) Have you check your credit score lately? If your score is about 600 or less, no matter how much money you make, bank would likely not to loan your money. It shows that you might likely to have "bad" money management in the past.

Other thing is money transactions. The bank would like to see "large" amount of money in and out of your bank account(s). It does not mean you max out your credit card, then pay it back 3 years later. It would lower your credit score. This is just my .02 cents

adreamer

[farwellbooth]

wow do airplanes make people crazy? Does your daddy who may sell his truck understand the risks your getting into? do you? The bank is denying you bc they did the math, literally

[SmitteyB]

[ QUOTE ]
wow do airplanes make people crazy? Does your daddy who may sell his truck understand the risks your getting into? do you? The bank is denying you bc they did the math, literally

[/ QUOTE ]

Well Key has given money to people less qualified. Why deny perfectly good people? Are there really that many CFI/FO's defaulting on their loans? And most parents will give up a hell of lot so their children can chase their dream. Who is anyone here to tell try to convince otherwise.

[SteveC]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
wow do airplanes make people crazy? Does your daddy who may sell his truck understand the risks your getting into? do you? The bank is denying you bc they did the math, literally

[/ QUOTE ]

Well Key has given money to people less qualified. Why deny perfectly good people? Are there really that many CFI/FO's defaulting on their loans? And most parents will give up a hell of lot so their children can chase their dream. Who is anyone here to tell try to convince otherwise.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think what farwellbooth was getting at, and I also said it earlier in this thread, is that Key is denying the loans because they believe there is a chance that the applicant won't pay it back! That should be a big clue to take a look and re-think whether or not the applicant should be borrowing that large an amount of money, especially considering their earning potential for the next few years. It's not a matter of denying someone their dream. It's a matter of dollars and cents.

As I said before, the lending institutions want to loan people money. It's how they make their money. The only thing that they don't want to do is to loan it to people that can't pay it back (with interest, of course). The banks will bend over backwards to help their clients get as deeply in debt as they think they can get them, while still having a chance of making payments. If the borrower goes bankrupt or defaults, everyone loses. The banks don't even want to have to go after co-signers if they don't have to. It costs them time and money to pursue payment from deliquent accounts and from co-signers.

Key and Sallie turn people down for a reason. The fact that people are (occasionally) having a hard time getting approved should make everyone seriously consider the difficulties involved with paying back those huge flight training loans.

[SmitteyB]

Ok and I understand that, but what are people supposed to do? I know I couldn't drop 50 grand to learn how to fly.

[adreamer]

Get one rating / add-on at a time at local FBO. At the same time, build your credit. i.e. pay bill on time, don't max out your credit card...etc.


adreamer