Diamond Star program?

[flyallday]

Anybody have any new info on this program? What happens when you finish your 320 hours of xc time? You become a CFI with the school? How much does it cost?

[Windchill]

I'm not exactly sure, so don't quote me ... but what I believe takes place with the Diamond Star program is basically you fly around in the Diamond for a bit to build hours near hiring mins for the airlines ... you do not become an instructor.

It's for students not interested in instructing ... you pay to build hours.

[adreamer]

If my memory serve me correct.

Well, they offered this program to me about a month ago. When you finish the program, they promise get you a regional FO job in certain amount of time. IF you don't get it, you will get 10,000 dollars refund.


adreamer

[SmitteyB]

[ QUOTE ]
If my memory serve me correct.

Well, they offered this program to me about a month ago. When you finish the program, they promise get you a regional FO job in certain amount of time. IF you don't get it, you will get 10,000 dollars refund.


adreamer

[/ QUOTE ]

And when you don't get a job, you get to invest that 10,000K in CFI, CFII, and MEI ratings....and why not do it at ATP? They're making money no matter what happens with you.

You know where they get that original 10,000? It's weaseled into the overall cost. 70k for no CFI ratings is a bit much...

[flyallday]

DAMMM, 70k??? a bit much

[SmitteyB]

That's ATP for you. Moving into the sleezy-luring ads.

[flyallday]

Does that at least include housing?

[SmitteyB]

I do not know. I believe you do this....

60-day Private Pilot
90-day Airline Career Pilot Program (minus CFI ratings)
========
= 5 months then they get 7 months to find you a job while you timebuild....

So for 5 months I assume you get free housing.

That's just a guess...I could be wrong. There is post below like...."New Program"...or something like that.

[RPM]

I'll believe this ripoff program when I see students actually getting hired with only 555 hours total time ....I think they are gonna be giving a lot of 10K refunds, and then getting the 10K back for the CFI ratings.

[SmitteyB]

They have the money. They're making pure profit on the 50 hours of sim time they sell to their students. And I don't really care if people say "The sim time is good because you'll need it in an iterview/training".....Well I sure as hell doubt you'll be training for an airline job in a Seminole FTD.

Sorry ATPers. 50 hours @ 62.00/hr....roughly $3100 per ACPP student.

But if I keep doing the math...Remember out of a possible 190hrs...(this is not for the Diamond Star Program)

37,995 (Total Program Cost)
-3,100 (50 hours FTD)
________
34,885 / 140 hours remaining = $249.18/hour

I know books are included and housing in the 90-day...but still.

But who am I to judge? Ratings are ratings, whether you spend 110,000 at Regional Airline Academy or 29,995 at Ari-Ben...it's only money, right? You decide...

[GaTechKid]

Since the program just started, condemnations of it are a bit premature. I'm not interested in this program but calling it a "ripoff program" without any evidence is baseless.

[stuckingfk]

[ QUOTE ]
They have the money. They're making pure profit on the 50 hours of sim time they sell to their students. And I don't really care if people say "The sim time is good because you'll need it in an iterview/training".....Well I sure as hell doubt you'll be training for an airline job in a Seminole FTD.

[/ QUOTE ]

You seem have seem to have the answers for everything and yet you haven't had any advanced training.

Sims are invaluable especially in multi engine training. You can not possibly practice all the emergencies you might encounter in the actual airplane. We have sims to practice instrument flying, get current, work on flows and other procedures, and for practicing emergencies that are too dangerous to try in the airplane.

And fyi, Horizon does their interviews at UND in our Seminole Frascas.

[pscraig]

[ QUOTE ]
They have the money. They're making pure profit on the 50 hours of sim time they sell to their students. And I don't really care if people say "The sim time is good because you'll need it in an iterview/training".....Well I sure as hell doubt you'll be training for an airline job in a Seminole FTD.

Sorry ATPers. 50 hours @ 62.00/hr....roughly $3100 per ACPP student.

But if I keep doing the math...Remember out of a possible 190hrs...(this is not for the Diamond Star Program)

37,995 (Total Program Cost)
-3,100 (50 hours FTD)
________
34,885 / 140 hours remaining = $249.18/hour

I know books are included and housing in the 90-day...but still.

But who am I to judge? Ratings are ratings, whether you spend 110,000 at Regional Airline Academy or 29,995 at Ari-Ben...it's only money, right? You decide...

[/ QUOTE ]

Still what? Your method of calculation is not really correct-you're trying to compare ATPs pricing model to a typical FBO that milks you by the hour. Since the housing and books, etc are included in the cost, as you noted, they cannot be separated. Even if it did cost $249.18 per hour, it would be below the other major flight schools' costs for a Seminole. When I left FSI it was $200 for the aircraft and $55 for the CFI. As for sim time, it's valuable. We can either learn approaches (until you get it right) in an aircraft at $xxx per hour, or we can do it in an air conditioned sim. It's your time, your money, and I'm not signing you off until you get it right.

Your estimates also fail to account for ground instruction, single engine training (including spins for CFIs), hotels on cross-countries, and other supplies provided. And there is the 3 hours in the Citation.

[GaTechKid]

....and rental cars plus gasoline, taxi transportation, professional dispatch service, modern and standardized avionics packages.............

[SmitteyB]

No, you're right about my calculations. However, even with housing and other accessories it is still near $200/hr.

lruppert, I really don't get you. Almost every post I've made on here you come back with a negatvie comment. I recognize that I don't know as much as other people about aviation, but I'm sure thinking I know how to treat other people. You could have said my calculations were incorrect, but you didn't. You have to resort to making comments that just piss people off. You must be an awful CFI.

[flyallday]

Thanks for inquiring about the Direct Track program. The Direct Track program is an additional $32,995. After completion of both the Career and Direct Track program, the options are flight instructing or a possible placement as a first officer with the regional airlines. ATP does not guarantee any job placement with the school or with any part 121 or 135 carriers, although the opportunities are there.



For any additional questions or scheduling information feel free to call our toll free number 1.800.255.2877 or visit our website at www.allatps.com .

Thank you,
ATP Inc.

[Captain_Bob]

.

[SmitteyB]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for inquiring about the Direct Track program. The Direct Track program is an additional $32,995. After completion of both the Career and Direct Track program, the options are flight instructing or a possible placement as a first officer with the regional airlines. ATP does not guarantee any job placement with the school or with any part 121 or 135 carriers, although the opportunities are there.



For any additional questions or scheduling information feel free to call our toll free number 1.800.255.2877 or visit our website at www.allatps.com .

Thank you,
ATP Inc.

[/ QUOTE ]


Wow. Private>Direct Track $77985.

[BobDDuck]

[ QUOTE ]
....or we can do it in an air conditioned sim. It's your time, your money, and I'm not signing you off until you get it right.

[/ QUOTE ]

Must be nice sitting in the nice air conditioned cockpit of a RJ I don't know if you ever got to fly in the new Frascas that some of the locations have now (like the one in Jax Beach minus the wrap around and vented windows) but they put out a whole lot of heat. That said, yes sim time is not time in the real aircraft but as far as procedural training (which is mostly what instrument flight is) they are almost more beneficial then the real aircraft. Not only does it allow for repatition and comprehension (can you tell I've been doing some ground school for the FOI!) it also allows us to simulate things that are not possible or unsafe in the actual aircraft.

Ethan

[stuckingfk]

[ QUOTE ]
No, you're right about my calculations. However, even with housing and other accessories it is still near $200/hr.

lruppert, I really don't get you. Almost every post I've made on here you come back with a negatvie comment. I recognize that I don't know as much as other people about aviation, but I'm sure thinking I know how to treat other people. You could have said my calculations were incorrect, but you didn't. You have to resort to making comments that just piss people off. You must be an awful CFI.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is fine, you don't have to get me. But your posts lack intellect and are constantly ripping on something you haven't experienced.

I probably wouldn't be on your case, but you haven't trained anywhere which gives you no grounds to comment about training at specific flight schools.

ATP has a very good business model and will continue to prosper with or without your comments. I am sure they won't be upset losing such a great student.....

[pscraig]

[ QUOTE ]
Must be nice sitting in the nice air conditioned cockpit of a RJ I don't know if you ever got to fly in the new Frascas that some of the locations have now (like the one in Jax Beach minus the wrap around and vented windows) but they put out a whole lot of heat.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, the ERJ does have good climate control....

Our sim in Vegas was hot too, but still better than the aircraft. In the summer the air temp is still over 100 degrees in the middle of the night. On the ILS into McCarran at 3am, the oil temps are usually at redline!

[pilotN2005]

Well, lots to say, so little time ..... first off, Smittey no offense but you didn't exactly come off very nice either from what I read. You think that by breakin out your little calculator and doing some very simple math that you are going to show us something we don't already know. ALL FLIGHT SCHOOLS, FBOs or ACADEMYS are in business to make money, if they didn't make money they would not be in business and you would have nothing to B**CH about. I don't think you even understand like most people that it costs a lot of money to operate a flight school, Insurance is a biggy. Just think about owning a business, it is not easy. I know quite a few people who have went to ATP and have nothing but good things to say about the school. You are getting a lot for your money at ATP. I went the FBO route to get my Private and I spent around 6K, due to scheduling issues with instructors and other issues with the school management. Just remember, all these schools are a business first. They are not around just to help you achieve your dream of becoming a pilot. That my friend is up to you. Yes you will pay for it, as many pilots have before you. My wifes grandfather washed airplanes for flight training, so you pay for it in some way or another. As a matter of fact he actually owned and ran a flight school in California, and he has told me that he got out of the flight school business because there was no money in it, due to high operating costs. And he loves teaching aspiring pilots how to fly. So, get over it, and if you want to be a pilot you had better change your attitude, because it will be an even longer road ahead if you don't. Nuff said !!

Take care and good Luck



"Your ATTITUDE not your APTITUDE will determine your ALTITUDE in LIFE !!

[Bryan]

It seems like a big gamble with $32k. If the regionals keep expanding like they have been, you might just just in. I don't know how the regionals can keep expanding at their current rate. Almost nobody is moving to the majors and it appears it will stay that way for a while. Once the regionals stop expanding, minimums are going to skyrocket. You will then have to get you CFI's anyway. OK alot of speculation there but it just seems it's going to get worse before things take off again.

[SmitteyB]

[ QUOTE ]
It seems like a big gamble with $32k. If the regionals keep expanding like they have been, you might just just in. I don't know how the regionals can keep expanding at their current rate. Almost nobody is moving to the majors and it appears it will stay that way for a while. Once the regionals stop expanding, minimums are going to skyrocket. You will then have to get you CFI's anyway. OK alot of speculation there but it just seems it's going to get worse before things take off again.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you're right. $32k is a big gamble. Hence my attitude in this forum. And I have talked to ATP grads who have nothing but good things to say about it, and I also talk to those who cant get a CFI job anywhere and ATP wont hire them. I apologize I guess I am a little partial to Ari-Ben.

And my attitude towards the breakdown of ATPs costs? I don't understand how this can effect my road to being a pilot. Analyzing costs? Ok...

[jtrain609]

Bro the flight instructing jobs are out there. You have to be willing to relocate in some situations, but thems the breaks. If they, or you for that matter, don't like it then I recommend you take a hard look at this flying thing because it's not exactly easy.