Why airline lay off the most junior staffs

[jowong1]

There has been a question I don't understand. Why is that whenever there is a furlough, airlines furlough the most junior personnel. If the point of a furlough is to reduce cost of labor. Wouldn't it make sense to furlough from the most senior persons? Afterall, their salaries are the highest. Not to mention, they will have a easier time finding another job after they get furloughed since they are more qualified (higher TT, etc...). Since their salaries are higher, u lay off fewer ppl to save the same amount of money.

So, why don't airlines furlough from the top of the seniority list?

Thanks

[Doug Taylor]

Seniority.

Besides, if Southernjets laid off the 777 and 747-400 pilots, they've got to train guys to replace them. And then train guys to replace the pilots who replaced the pilots who were laid off, etc etc.

[Socal321]

Originally Posted by jowong1

There has been a question I don't understand. Why is that whenever there is a furlough, airlines furlough the most junior personnel. If the point of a furlough is to reduce cost of labor. Wouldn't it make sense to furlough from the most senior persons? Afterall, their salaries are the highest. Not to mention, they will have a easier time finding another job after they get furloughed since they are more qualified (higher TT, etc...). Since their salaries are higher, u lay off fewer ppl to save the same amount of money.

So, why don't airlines furlough from the top of the seniority list?

Thanks

I see that a Bachelors in Aviation Management has served you well.

[jowong1]

Originally Posted by Socal321

I see that a Bachelors in Aviation Management has served you well.

I don't have a Bachelor in Aviation Management

[jowong1]

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

Seniority.

Besides, if Southernjets laid off the 777 and 747-400 pilots, they've got to train guys to replace them. And then train guys to replace the pilots who replaced the pilots who were laid off, etc etc.

If u need to train ppl to replace the ppl u r laying off, then obviously, u need those ppl there! u shouldnt lay them off in the first place!

[falconvalley]

Originally Posted by Socal321

I see that a Bachelors in Aviation Management has served you well.

Originally Posted by jowong1

I don't have a Bachelor in Aviation Management

OOOO, burn.

[bike21]

While our current seniority system isn't perfect, it protects jobs and promotes safety. Does it really make sense to you to have 20 years invested in a company only to be furloughed because someone with 2 years in the company is cheaper?

By your logic, experience and personal investment in a company means nothing. Might as well have interns replacing CEOs because they are cheaper.

[jowong1]

Originally Posted by bike21

While our current seniority system isn't perfect, it protects jobs and promotes safety. Does it really make sense to you to have 20 years invested in a company only to be furloughed because someone with 2 years in the company is cheaper?

By your logic, experience and personal investment in a company means nothing. Might as well have interns replacing CEOs because they are cheaper.

I m not saying experience and personal investment in a company means nothing. In a perfect world, everyone will have a high paying job that they are happy with, 100% job security and excellent benefits. But it's not a perfect world, that's why there are furloughs.

With 20 years of experience, u will have a easier time finding another flying job so that doesn't mean nothing. Perhaps if airlines start furloughing from the top of the seniority, the senior staff wont feel so much entitlement and will pay more attention when it comes time for contract negotiation and they won't try to protect their place in the food chain at the expense of the junior staffs

As far as interns replacing CEOs..I am all for it, at least interns prolly have the sense not to give themselves a 600% raise while laying off workers and slashing union contracts

[tjvpa28]

[BobDDuck]

Originally Posted by jowong1

With 20 years of experience, u will have a easier time finding another flying job so that doesn't mean nothing.

What makes you think anybody will be hiring if some places are furloughing. Sorry, but that logic sort of sucks.

[subpilot]

Do you understand that for that experienced pilot to go somewhere else he would be starting over on everything. We don't get to make lateral moves in this business... you start at the bottom and work your way up the food chain at each and every company you go to.

[windowseat]

I don't think he quite understands how a seniority list works.

[jowong1]

Originally Posted by BobDDuck

What makes you think anybody will be hiring if some places are furloughing. Sorry, but that logic sort of sucks.

So u r saying, because one company is laying off, then all companies must be laying off? Including other part121/135, cargo, fractional, corporate and overseas carriers? Ur logic is buzzard.

[wrxpilot]

What is the matter with kids these days?!

[Ian J]

Originally Posted by jowong1

So u r saying, because one company is laying off, then all companies must be laying off? Including other part121/135, cargo, fractional, corporate and overseas carriers? Ur logic is buzzard.

Please take this as constructively as possible - I only mean this educationally:

Generally people on JC stay away from "text speak." This is a professional community and and it is generally encouraged not to write like a teenager on their cell phone.

That said, out of curiosity, what is your aviation background?

[jowong1]

Originally Posted by subpilot

Do you understand that for that experienced pilot to go somewhere else he would be starting over on everything. We don't get to make lateral moves in this business... you start at the bottom and work your way up the food chain at each and every company you go to.

Yes u do work ur way up from the bottom, while u r at the bottom, u get no money but u get job security. Once u get to the top, u get the money, but little job security. If u get laid off and have to start over again, then u will get the job security again.

And Windowseat, I do know how the seniority list works. It determines your pay, schedule, vacations, etc. It's also a man-made system, therefore it can be changed. Why does it have to work THIS way, why cant it work some other ways?

[tjvpa28]

Originally Posted by jowong1

So u r saying, because one company is laying off, then all companies must be laying off? Including other part121/135, cargo, fractional, corporate and overseas carriers? Ur logic is buzzard.

You think the longer you're at a company the better your chances of getting furloughed should be and in the same sentence bashing someones logic? And yes, the industry follows trends, so companies do tend to hire and layoff/furlough at the same times.

[jowong1]

Originally Posted by tjvpa28

You think the longer you're at a company the better your chances of getting furloughed should be and in the same sentence bashing someones logic? And yes, the industry follows trends, so companies do tend to hire and layoff/furlough at the same times.

Well then I guess all these overseas carriers training their cadets and hiring 50000h type rated direct-entry captains was just a fragment of my imagination

[tjvpa28]

Originally Posted by jowong1

Well then I guess all these overseas carriers training their cadets and hiring 50000h type rated direct-entry captains was just a fragment of my imagination

That's true, so after 20 years with a company it won't be a problem to uproot yourself and move overseas so some young hot shot with more balls than brains can take your place...that's all, I won't be entertaining this nonsense anymore. Oh, and it's "figment"

[jowong1]

Originally Posted by Ian J

Please take this as constructively as possible - I only mean this educationally:

Generally people on JC stay away from "text speak." This is a professional community and and it is generally encouraged not to write like a teenager on their cell phone.

That said, out of curiosity, what is your aviation background?

It's not teenager typing on their cellphone. It's short hand typing, it saves time. Try it sometime

[jowong1]

Originally Posted by tjvpa28

That's true, so after 20 years with a company it won't be a problem to uproot yourself and move overseas so some young hot shot with more balls than brains can take your place...that's all, I won't be entertaining this nonsense anymore. Oh, and it's "figment"

Just because we are young, then we must be "hot shot with more balls than brains"?

By the way, I did mean fragment, not figment.

[Ian J]

Originally Posted by jowong1

It's not teenager typing on their cellphone. It's short hand typing, it saves time. Try it sometime

There's no reason for hostility. I was simply trying to be helpful. "Short hand" typing, while it may save time, doesn't read professionally. On a text-based communication platform, the way you write is one of the main ways people can get a feel for you. Look around the forum... very few people use short hand.

And you didn't answer my question - what is your aviation background?

[Copperhed51]

Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmm: clap:

Does that cover it? jwong, you're kidding, right?

[tjvpa28]

Originally Posted by jowong1

Just because we are young, then we must be "hot shot with more balls than brains"?

Yes.

[falconvalley]

Originally Posted by jowong1

Just because we are young, then we must be "hot shot with more balls than brains"?

By the way, I did mean fragment, not figment.

Quite simply, yes, you can type how wish and be as nice as you wish. Just understand that this community is accustomed to a specific style of conversation. Some will welcome you regardless. Some will tell you that you should try using tact some time.