Skywest to fly for Airtran

[Socal321]

Originally Posted by falconvalley

Just wait! In about 30 years it'll probably be almost all "regional" flying here in the US. Sad thing is we can't stop that. We don't run the companies. Good thing is we can have some control over how much we make doing it. One of the reasons it's becoming this way might be our low cost, but it doesn't mean we'll stay that way.

Yea and partnerships like these are small but firm steps towards that goal for this industry by management. A lot of people are watching this code share. One thing's for sure future scope in contracts will have to deal with "code shares".

[wheelsup]

Is it just me or does MKE make a pretty crappy hub for any carrier? It's not a ATL, PHL, DEN, JFK, etc. It's a pretty small midwestern city with a small amount of O/D traffic. And now Midwest and Airtran are turning it into their stomping ground. Seems kinda silly.

[wheelsup]

Originally Posted by Socal321

Yea and partnerships like these are small but firm steps towards that goal for this industry by management. A lot of people are watching this code share. One thing's for sure future scope in contracts will have to deal with "code shares".

Yep, that is where Republic is probably heading. "Code sharing" with UAL, DAL, etc. etc. with their ever larger aircraft. Good business for them, crappy for pilots in general.

[E_Dawg]

Originally Posted by wheelsup

Is it just me or does MKE make a pretty crappy hub for any carrier? It's not a ATL, PHL, DEN, JFK, etc. It's a pretty small midwestern city with a small amount of O/D traffic. And now Midwest and Airtran are turning it into their stomping ground. Seems kinda silly.

Yeah, I never really 'got' MKE as a hub either... it's not really on the way to anywhere, it's not a major destination in and of itself, it's too close to ORD, etc etc. Don't get me wrong I love WI, MKE, even been known to down miller lite on occasion, but as a hub I just don't get it...

[A-300F4-622R]

Originally Posted by falconvalley

Just wait! In about 30 years it'll probably be almost all "regional" flying here in the US. Sad thing is we can't stop that. We don't run the companies. Good thing is we can have some control over how much we make doing it. One of the reasons it's becoming this way might be our low cost, but it doesn't mean we'll stay that way.

With all do respect, the endless supply of wannabe airline pilots gives regional pilot groups little or no leverage to make substantial gains in pay and benefits. Management knows this. Why would they pay existing guys more when they have guys chomping at the bit to work there at the existing pay?

[Polar742]

Originally Posted by stuckingfk

Or if you want to look at the positives for AirTran.

They create a market with a smaller plane at less risk to their bottom line. They create more demand for their product and maybe send Midwest to the crapper. People of this board seem to think that if you can fly an RJ into an airport that means you can somehow fill a 737, 717, 320, etc.

If these flights work, eventually they'll be able to send 717's on these routes.

Has anyone taken business classes here?

That's a good thought.

I saw a that maybe 3% of my time flying the RJs doing that.

But, let's put this in historical perspective:

1) AWAC flew for AirTran (even saw a CRJ in those colors in TLH). It was a signed long term deal, terminated about what seemed the 12 month point. Costs were about the same as the 717, and less revenue from what I heard

2) ACA gave UAL the finger, turned the airline into the cash burning machine known as Independence Air, or Flyi IIRC, ACA had about 200 jets, and a bunch of cash in the bank. One of the leading regionals at that time.

3) ExpressJet branded services

All of which has occurred within the last 10 years, and 1 and 2 were during boom years, not this crap economy we have now.

So, summing it up, a 50 seat jet has it's niche in the industry. However, by far and large, the capacity is mismanaged and is more of a cost leader than a revenue center.

This is one of the first returns to yield flying from fee-for-departure flying you'll see.

Obviously we have seen XJT in some agreements (was it the Delta on the west coast?) for yield flying.

RAH is obviously going into at-risk flying

Skywest is entering the arena.

It's tough out there guys. At-risk, or yield, flying means one thing is coming. Phrases like: "Sharpen our pencils", "tighten our belts" and more bluntly "contain costs to be competitive".

Hang on, and strap in...it's gonna get ugly!!

Oh...and I wonder what AirTran pilots think about all this?

[falconvalley]

Originally Posted by wheelsup

Is it just me or does MKE make a pretty crappy hub for any carrier? It's not a ATL, PHL, DEN, JFK, etc. It's a pretty small midwestern city with a small amount of O/D traffic. And now Midwest and Airtran are turning it into their stomping ground. Seems kinda silly.

Hey now! You can keep your ATL PHL DEN JFK etc...I'll keep my very few delays and ability to drive to Chicago from here. Midwest has been here for years and did fine until they didn't evolve with the market. Northwest even wanted this place and failed at it for a long time. MKE is more like a moderately busy Class C airport than a "small midwestern town" airport. When you say that, I think Madison. Believe me, it's not silly. Milwaukee has been relevant for quite a few years. Besides, ORD is ridiculous.

Originally Posted by A-300F4-622R

With all do respect, the endless supply of wannabe airline pilots gives regional pilot groups little or no leverage to make substantial gains in pay and benefits. Management knows this. Why would they pay existing guys more when they have guys chomping at the bit to work there at the existing pay?

This is the way it's ALWAYS been. It's just on a bigger scale now. This is more an example of a mentality that believes unions have more power than they actually do than an example of a mentality of SJS. The problem simply won't be eradicated by pointing out how many people are "willing" to fly for low wages. It will be solved by discovering how better pay and QOL can actually be achieved. Many union tactics used today are SO 1980. These times are quite different. You won't find very many CEO's quivering in their boots when MECs "demand" this and that and try to shame them. We really need better leaders on the union side of things. We really need a revised RLA.

[kellwolf]

Originally Posted by joliet

Way to go Airtran

the 717 isn't much bigger than a CRJ

go go go air tran


bye bye mainline jobs

Eh, I don't see it that way. Skywest is doing at risk flying, and they went to AirTran with a "Hey, we'll share profits if you book these on your reservations system" deal. AirTran woulda been crazy to turn it down since it's more or less free money for them. They're not outsourcing existing or new flying to an RJ carrier, they're codesharing. If you read the article it even says Skywest is controlling the seat inventory and paying for fuel. It would be like accusing Continental of letting 50 seat scope go b/c someone bought a ticket on a Delta 70 seater on Continental.com.

[flyasaab]

SkyWest already does some at risk flying in the jet under the United Express banner with the CRJ. All of the EMB 120 flying is at risk in SLC, the only difference here is that the planes will say SkyWest on them. The passengers will still book through Air Trans website.

[H46Bubba]

Originally Posted by Polar742

Phrases like: "Sharpen our pencils", "tighten our belts" and more bluntly "contain costs to be competitive".

Hang on, and strap in...it's gonna get ugly!!

Hahahahaha...you just described Comair to the tee!

[Doug Taylor]

AirTran Pilots: Outsourcing Bad for Business



Press Release
Source: Air Line Pilots Association, Int’l
On 6:25 pm EST, Wednesday November 4, 2009

ATLANTA--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Union leaders for the AirTran pilots issued the following statement in response to their airline’s announcement that AirTran [NYSE: AAI] has reached an agreement with SkyWest to operate five CRJ-200 aircraft—in SkyWest livery—between seven cities. AirTran pilots, who are represented by the Air Line Pilots Association, Int’l (ALPA), have been in contract negotiations for five years and are seeking guarantees that the company will not farm out work to the lowest bidder.

“The pilots of AirTran are deeply concerned that our management is outsourcing flying, even while the company’s mainline growth has been stagnant for the past two years. While we applaud any moves by the company to increase profitability, we strongly believe that AirTran customers expect and deserve to be flown on AirTran planes with AirTran pilots in the cockpit.

“Outsourcing AirTran flying to a regional carrier runs the risk of diminishing the travel experience in the eyes of our customers, and goes directly against the business model that has made this company a success. AirTran is known for its business class seats, XM Radio and WiFi Internet access, none of which would be provided on a 50-seat Regional Jet (RJ).

“AirTran has been marketing its full-sized aircraft in Milwaukee as a more comfortable alternative to Republic Holdings’ smaller RJs. It would be unfortunate if AirTran were to cede that advantage as it works to gain market share in the Midwest.

“Furthermore, it is unclear how the utilization of RJs in 2010 would be any more successful than it was in 2003, when the company ended AirTran Jet-Connect.

“As partners in the success of this airline, we are asking AirTran management to work with the pilots and other employees in the future to encourage the growth of the company from within—as they’ve done in the past with notable success.”

Founded in 1931, ALPA is the world’s largest pilots union, representing nearly 53,000 pilots at 36 airlines in the United States and Canada. For more information, go to PilotContractNow.com.

[Trip7]

So the rumors were true!

Rise of the Super-regional continues....

[SpiraMirabilis]

Originally Posted by Trip7

So the rumors were true!

Rise of the Super-regional continues....

try not to get too excited there.

[Polar742]

Hey there "Captain Late to the Party"

http://forums.jetcareers.com/airline...y-airtran.html

[E_Dawg]

Originally Posted by Polar742

It's tough out there guys. At-risk, or yield, flying means one thing is coming. Phrases like: "Sharpen our pencils", "tighten our belts" and more bluntly "contain costs to be competitive".

Hang on, and strap in...it's gonna get ugly!!

Oh...and I wonder what AirTran pilots think about all this?

I bet some guys wish they'd picked up the phone about 2yrs ago.

[Killtron2000]

customers expect and deserve to be flown on AirTran planes with AirTran pilots in the cockpit.

Yeah I'm sure the union's concerns are all about the passengers.

[deadstick]

Originally Posted by kellwolf

Sounds like a creative way to use those -200s that were doing the Midwest flying.

Ooooh. I wonder if they still have the ovens?!? More cookies!

BTW, do the Republic 190s and 170s have ovens?

[Gonzo]

Originally Posted by Killtron2000

Yeah I'm sure the union's concerns are all about the passengers.

Without passengers they have no job so yes my guess is they do care about the passengers.

[Killtron2000]

Originally Posted by Gonzo

Without passengers they have no job so yes my guess is they do care about the passengers.

So unions do care about the business side? Is that why airlines are so profitable?

[Gonzo]

Originally Posted by Killtron2000

Is that why airlines are so profitable?

Yes they care, but they don't run the company.

[Killtron2000]

Originally Posted by Gonzo

Yes they care, but they don't run the company.

Apparently Airtran's management figured out they can make more money by farming out the work to companies like Skywest who don't have to contend with labor unions.

[Gonzo]

Originally Posted by Killtron2000

Apparently Airtran's management figured out they can make more money by farming out the work to companies like Skywest who don't have to contend with labor unions.

Do you mean the same management team that has said in the past that there is no way to make money on 50 seat feed.

[Polar742]

Originally Posted by Killtron2000

Apparently Airtran's management figured out they can make more money by farming out the work to companies like Skywest who don't have to contend with labor unions.

Why was it that they killed the AWAC deal with AirTran again?

[Killtron2000]

Originally Posted by Gonzo

Do you mean the same management team that has said in the past that there is no way to make money on 50 seat feed.

I don't know when they said that but it's obviously not their position today. It's totally possible that a 50 seater might not be as economical but again if you don't have to deal with the union it might make sense.

Originally Posted by Polar742

Why was it that they killed the AWAC deal with AirTran again?

Who wanted to kill their deal with Air Wisconsin?

[Gonzo]

Originally Posted by Killtron2000

I don't know when they said that but it's obviously not their position today. It's totally possible that a 50 seater might not be as economical but again if you don't have to deal with the union it might make sense.

What does the union have do to with if a 50 seats can make money.

FYI: It looks like this deal is going to cost FL zero money. The problem is the cost to run a CRJ-200 is about the same as a 717.